Bass Culture

Should have put my hand in my pocket last Saturday! 😁

2 hours ago, Cosmo Valdemar said:

That's a pretty overpriced place - a pretty tatty '05 Gibson SG bass, £1300?!

Yep, the stock was impressive, the prices less so - apart from the mispriced Wal, anyway!

7 hours ago, tauzero said:

 

Rats, I was in Hay about three weeks ago and didn't realise there was a guitar shop there now. <checks google maps> Bollocks, Mrs Zero wanted to walk through the castle from the car park to Shepherds (ice cream) and Kilverts (pub), and then through the castle back. If we'd walked from or to the alley from the car park, we'd have passed right by it. Oh well.

I thought it had some incredible stock - g**tars especially.  The owner's Dad told us they'd shifted a '55 Precision a short while before, and sent an Ibanez double-neck guitar out to the states a couple of weeks back too.  I was with a guitarist mate when I went in, saw the Wal and said 'let's guess how much' to him.  I said about £6k and he had no idea, so you can guess how surprised I was when I was told £3k.  I suspect, more and more, that he simply quoted me an incorrect price.  If I'd said there and then 'I'll have it', I'd imagine a call to his son to double check would have ended up with it being corrected.  Still, who knows?

27 minutes ago, franzbassist said:

I specifically asked about the second bass, and the owner told me earlier today there's only one available.

Hmmm, maybe the guy in the shop on Saturday got the price wrong too then. 

The guy in the shop on Saturday also mentioned that they had a second Wal too, that wasn't on display yet.  He thought that one was already priced higher, so I'd guess that'll go out at north of £6k if so!

1 minute ago, spyder said:

I was going to jump in the car tomorrow for £3k.... But £5.9k sorry no.

Jeez - did you get the impression he'd put the price up?  I mean, as opposed to me being quoted an incorrect price in the first place on Saturday (the person in the shop at the weekend wasn't the owner)?

I was very near to buying it myself to sell on immediately, but thought I might be too tempted to keep hold of it!  And seeing as I am recently retired and presently band-less, that would have plain stupid.

Mrs BC and I were in Hay-on-Wye for a break over the weekend and I happened to chance upon a guitar shop (predominantly second-hand stock) that had opened since the previous time we'd visited (2021).  In the window there was a lovely Yammie SG, and a couple of nice PRS's, so I ventured in, not expecting much bass-wise.  However, there was a really nice Wal sitting on a stand right in the middle of the shop floor.  There was no price ticket on it, so I tentatively inquired, expecting to be told it would be in the £4-5k ball park, only to be told that one was about £3k, and that they had another that had not yet made it's way into the shop that was a little under £4k.  The one I saw was a four string fretted Mark 2.  Looked to be in pretty nice condition, though it needed a set up.  Anyway, to anyone who's in the market, it might be worth a trip.  It's not on their website yet either.  I have no affiliation or connection with the shop, but thought someone amongst the BC fraternity might be in the market, and this one seemed to me quite reasonably priced in comparison to some of the daft prices being asked.  The shop is called Wye Fret.

Apropos of these videos - why do reviewers hardly ever mention what strings they have on the demo bass?!  Drives me nuts.  Strings have a fundamental impact on your basic sound and they are hardly ever mentioned, so you have no idea to what extent you need to factor them into your response to the particular amp under review.  Clearly, light, steel round wounds are going to present a completely different sound to the amp compared to heavier flats (for example).

15 hours ago, JPJ said:

Oof 😍 what a beauty! Looking forward to hearing some sound clips

I think Mike wants to record some vid and sound samples when I collect it, so I'll post a link if we get that sorted.

Welll this has been the very pleasantist of surprises, and quite made my day!  Absolutely stunning work, @Cosmicrain - thank you!  Bring on Friday!

Latest batch of update photos from Mike, and time to start getting proper excited now, I think! 😊

Scheduled to pick up next weekend at present.  Mike's been testing the various pickup connections at each stage of assembly, but has not so far been able to sound test them.  I can't wait to hear them.  He's a true artist and I've no doubt at all they'll sound every bit as good as they and the bass looks.

1 hour ago, pineweasel said:

I'm not aware of the pickup wiring ever being changed. Where did you hear about it?

New wiring and old wiring are referred to in the Turner (I think, could be Herrick though) multicoil (I.e. 'Wal-type) pickup blurb and, I think, the Lusithand preamp copy too. I assumed it referred to Wal's wiring as these products are presented as very close alternatives to the Wal components on which they are obviously based. Funkle also refers to new wiring in his epic Building a Wal-a-like thread. Maybe I've misunderstood though, and these alternative wiring options apply to these new items only and not the Wal originals?  

9 minutes ago, NikNik said:

I thought the filter circuit was most of the Wal tone?

 It undoubtedly makes a significant contribution, but seeing as passive Wal's reportedly also have the same characteristic 'core tone', I believe the pickups (and how they are wired?) make an equal or possibly even greater contribution.

46 minutes ago, Cosmicrain said:

Great question Mark, and I, for one, do not know the correct answer.

I'm sure the hive mind will prevail, Mike! 😊

Can anyone explain to me how the so-called new wiring for Wal pickups differs from the old wiring, and when it changed?  Also, what difference does it make in terms of tone?  I found myself pondering on this question when reading the various threads on BC that reference the characteristic Wal tone, and it occured to me that, given this change in how the pickups are wired, is the Wal tone the same now as it was pre-change? 

EDIT - Mods, please move to Repairs/Technical if you think that's the more appropriate location.

Couple more photos which show the body after three (I think) coats of Mike's wax and oil mix.

51 minutes ago, bloke_zero said:

Looks amazing! Soft V? Is that like \_/ with a kind of flat section? It's hard to see from the pictures.

More like a V where the pointy bit is less pointy, with a softer/gentler curve, but still provides a definite reference point for your thumb.

I thought I'd leave starting this thread until there was some reasonable progress to show.  When Rautia, who'd supplied the pickups for my my first Wal-a-like, closed down, Mike and I spoke about him developing his own multi-coil pickups and I decided to commission a new bass which would be the guinea pig for these in-house designs.  The first bass had been paired with a Lusithand filter pre, but I decided I wanted this one to be different and that we'd go passive - Wal passive models still have their own distinctive Wal tone, after all.  At around the same time I returned the first bass to Mike to swap out the rather cheap monorail bridge units I'd supplied to him when it was built for some more substantial Hipshot items.  During the course of this work it became apparent that one of the original Rautia pickups had developed a problem and that they would need to be changed, so he was now making two pairs of pickups for me.  This was to be the start of an extensive period of research which involved Mike investigating all aspects of the design, specification and topography of the Wal originals, which has only now culminated in him finally being able to start winding his own pickups - with the help of a new coil winder he's just invested in.

Specs for the new bass are:

Zoot Boudica body shape

Paulownia body with wenge top and back - wax & oil finish

Multi-laminate neck of roasted maple and mahogany with maple and wenge stringers. Soft V profile

32" scale with 38mm nut.

18mm string spacing at bridge

2 x new Zoot multicoil pickups

V/T and series/parallel switch per pickup

Zoot solid brass bridge

Hipshot ultralite tuners and string retainer

Here's some progress pictures:

On 13/02/2024 at 09:08, three said:

I’d no idea re: Wal and the Hellborg power amp. Fascinating and I wonder if it remains in place? I’ve had quite a few of these amps and still have one. Massively heavy and according to a well known studio tech, the most over-built power amp he’d seen. That said, they are not at all a transparent amp - there’s a gritty baked-in tone that surprised me initially, to the extent that I thought it was a fault. Four or five units later, it’s evident that the grit is designed-in. I wonder whether this has any influence on the calibration of contemporary Wal electronics? Back on topic, i’ve watched in awe at the stratospheric price increases. I’ve owned a few Wals and played a lot (I’m a fan of the tone and the v profile, especially on the earlier basses) but found them a little uncomfortable, and in some respects a bit agricultural. The prices in the ‘90s - relative to other basses - seemed about right to me

I'm glad I'm not the only one around here who likes the Wal-type V profile!  I see it decried quite frequently but it absolutely made sense when I played a friend's Mach* 1 fretless back in the 80's and I've had all my Zoot Customs made with it since.

*I seem to remember Mach being the correct designation from an old marketing leaflet some decades ago, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility I'm misremebering...or have simply dreamed it!

21 minutes ago, Russ said:

I love what I've seen of Mike's Zoot Wal-a-likes. I'd like to get my hands on one and give it a try. Lusithand's preamps are great - they're missing the "pick attack" control, but he sets the frequency sweep on the filters to extend to higher frequencies to compensate. 

 

If your next Zoot is going to be more like an older Wal, can Mike do a leather scratchplace?  

I remember seeing that bass (the JG prefixed serial number ones?) being featured in one of the mags at the time.  But to me that was the thing about Wal's when they first became popular (as a now 60-year old,  I'm talking about the early 80's), they looked quite different to anything else around at the time too.    The oiled natural finish of the Customs especially wasn't really something anyone else was doing, I recall.  Mind you, as appealing as I found them, I wouldn't be enticed inot parting with the kind of five figure sums now they can fetch now.  My Zoot Wal-alike gets me quite close enough to scratch that particular itch.

On 05/02/2024 at 21:42, Russ said:

There's a lot of options right now for players who want some of that Wal flavour - quite a few companies producing multi-coil pickups (Herrick, Turner, Bassculture, and apparently now Nordstrand), filter preamps (Lusithand, ACG), and ever a couple of companies that will make you a lookalike! There's a US-based company on FB called Octave Basses who make straight-up Wal copies for Justin Chancellor fans who have neither the money nor patience to get a real one! They're supposed to be pretty good though.  There's some demo videos up there of someone who has one playing Tool tunes, and it sounds spot-on. although it probably doesn't hurt that the guy in question has spent a fortune on getting all Justin Chancellor's other gear - the same amps (Demeter/GK/Mesa), the same speakers, all the same pedals, etc, so I suppose that helps.  

 

Not sure any of them will have the cachet of the real deal, but, if you love the sound, you should be able to get pretty close. 

 

I remember passing on a Wal Mk2 in the Notting Hill Music Exchange back in the mid-90s for £250 because I thought it was too heavy. I guess nobody had any idea of what they'd end up selling for!  

Very true.   I have my own Zoot 'Wal-alike', made by MIke Walsh, which is so much more comfortable to play than the real thing.  One of the original pickups developed a problem and this has inspired Mike to start making his own multi-coils, which he's going to offer on his own range of Wal-alike basses.  Knowing the research he's done, I suspect they are going to be as close to the originals as it is possible to get (having had many conversations with him I'm now much more aware than previously of the complex and multiple specification and topographical considerations involved).  The latest version of the Lusithand pre is also voiced slightly differently too, I believe.  So - as Russ says - there's plenty of options out there for those hankering after the Wal sound without having the patience and pockets deep enough to go 'full Wal'.  My own next 'Wal-alike' will be using MIke's new pickups too, but will be passive, so it will be interesting to hear how close it gets without the filter preamp.  Still it's own variation of a Wal, of course, but from a much earlier era and iteration.

What the hell does 'world-leading pickups' mean?  Leading the world in what exactly?!  I'm blaming my age, but the nonsensical bo**ocks that is employed in the name of marketing and that is so ubiquitous these days is really starting to grind my gears...

Thanks for all the replies, much appreciated. BC

I'm surprised no one's mentioned either of the TC Plethora models.  I'm an effects numptie though, so maybe they are lacking something the OP is specifically looking for?