Ed_S

I played 5s exclusively for a long time, but I ended up trying one of the then-new Mexican 4 string Precisions that had just come out in 2009ish and it was a "have to buy it" moment. I took it along to a rehearsal as a bit of a joke (my main basses then were Vampyre and Warlock 5-strings so the white/white/maple P was something of an aesthetic change) but I ended up enjoying it so much that I've been predominantly in the 4-string camp ever since.

[quote name='Tech21NYC' timestamp='1447774697' post='2910236']
How were you using the RBI into the Crown? What were the specific settings on both the RBI and power amp? What type of bass, passive or active? Any other effects in line before the RBI and in the loop or placed between the RBI and power amp. The thing to remember is that those specs are usually based on a 1kHz sine wave, we typically use a 500 Hertz sine wave.

You mentioned the amp worked fine for the PA. What speakers and system? Bass is the hardest thing to amplify. You need more power for the low end. Were you running the bass through the PA system? I'm not trying to give you a hard time but playing one instrument through a bass cab situated on the floor is not the same as a PA system with speakers that are pole mounted or suspended in the air with sub woofers etc.
[/quote]

Yeah, I get what you're saying - there are a lot of possible variables on both sides and I honestly have no idea at this point what the settings on either piece of equipment were when I was experimenting with the RBI/XLS rack. I'm not the least technically minded person out there and I did experiment quite thoroughly with settings, patching and instruments, but it's feasible that I missed something. It's interesting to reflect that my backup rig in the event of a complete failure is a choice of BDDI or VTDI into a Bose A1 PackLite power amp, and that works brilliantly and is every bit as loud and clear as you'd expect... maybe even louder!

[quote name='Tech21NYC' timestamp='1447690832' post='2909524']
Sorry but this is not correct. We have been through this numerous times on the Talk Bass forum years back. We even measured our RBI's output to duplicate Crown's test specs. These are the results:

:Part of the problem is that Crown makes power amps for sound reinforcement applications not musical instrument use. While a pro multi channel mixer with all its channels being driven to the max can put out a significant signal level and exceed the input level requirements of the Crown there is no extra output to be had. You would simply have to turn down the gains on the Crown to prevent the mixer from overloading the input of the power amp. You would have to do the same with the RBI.

The wattage rating of the power amp and your speaker system are only part of the equation. Typically many bass cabs that handle higher wattage ratings are also lower efficiency. You have to look at the SPL the cab is capable of reproducing and most bass cabs will not compete with high quality sound reinforcement speaker systems. With an amp like the Crown if you're looking for 1000 watts RMS, Crown will recommend a 2000 watt power amp. This is because music is not a steady sine wave. If you don't have the added headroom the power amp will clip at any sustained sounds that go beyond the RMS limit. They can handle small peaks but not continuous peaks.

I would recommend to the OP to try using the RBI into his amps EFX loop return (if provided) to bypass the preamp section of the amp. This will give you a good idea of the sound of the RBI on its own. There is also a way to use the RBI independently from your amp's preamp with certain models of amps.
[/quote]

Sorry if you feel that I've spoken out of turn. All I can say is that my cabs at the time were a Barefaced Super 12 and a Markbass STD104HR (both 4ohm and neither considered to lack sensitivity) and the most I was wanting to get out of the rig was the equivalent volume of my 500W Markbass head, so the bridged 1500W XLS was more than the 'recommended' 2x over-spec. The RBI didn't work well for me, but my old Peavey TB-Raxx preamp worked fine in its place - I just didn't want to use the Peavey in my gigging rack and risk damaging it. I swapped the XLS out and the RBI then worked fine into my Markbass head (just as you yourself suggest) and the XLS proved its worth as a PA amp. Given that I'd proven all the bits were fine on their own and with other combinations of gear, the sensible conclusion seemed to be that the RBI and XLS just didn't work well together for some reason. One not having the requisite poke to drive the other was what I came up with, but I admit it was just a guess and I'm happy to stand corrected.

[quote name='BassManGraham' timestamp='1447260474' post='2906233']
Hi Ed, Other than the RBIs lack of signal to drive the Crown XLS1500 was the sound quality OK?. Were you using the Crown XLS in Bridged or stereo mode? Would a active bass make a difference? I am thinking about the Crown XLS 1002 produces 1100W in to 4 ohms bridged which seems more than ample if the new higher sensitivity input allows the RBI to drive the power amp. Appreciate your feedback. Cheers
[/quote]

Hi Graham,

Other than the mismatch between the RBI and XLS, the power amp is great - so good that I bought another and shipped out my old Yamaha P3500S which I never thought I'd get rid of... but (quite unscientifically) the rack case with both XLS1500s in it is probably lighter than the Yamaha on its own.

When I was using the XLS for bass, I was using it bridged into a Barefaced Super 12 (sensitive 4ohm 2x12 in the unlikely event that you haven't come across one on your travels) and whilst it was loud enough, the XLS was on full and the settings that I had to use on the RBI were such that an excessive amount of hum / mains noise / RFI etc. was coming through. In the end, I just dropped the Crown out of the rack and put my Markbass LM2 in, which eventually resulted in me just using the LM2 without the rest of the rack.

Hindsight being the wonderful thing that it is, I wish I'd tried putting my MXR micro-amp between the pre and power to just give the signal a push going into the amp, but I didn't think of it at the time, and I've since traded the RBI as it wasn't getting used, so I can't give it a go. I don't think an active bass would make much difference; the signal needs to be hotter leaving the preamp, not going into it.

I think the new XLS1002 would be fine bridged into a 4ohm cab, though I might be tempted to go for the 1502 myself as it would have a bit more poke per-side for conventional PA / monitor use, so might be more handy from a double-duty perspective for the same size and weight. That, and hey, you can always turn down if you've got too much power but turning up past full can be tricky.

[quote name='dincz' timestamp='1447220527' post='2905859']
Crown's new Drivecore 2 series should solve this - switchable input sensitivity 1.4V/0.775V

http://www.crownaudio.com/en-US/products/xls-1502
[/quote]

Nice.. and the right colour this time, too! Aside from the input sensitivity the old ones were/are great and, although I didn't rate the RBI/XLS combination, I still have two 1500s in a 4U rack for occasional PA duties. Might have to see about getting a v2 to try with bass preamps :-)

[quote name='BassManGraham' timestamp='1447187164' post='2905699']
I will also consider the Crown XLS1500 which is a very good price on Thomann at the moment.
[/quote]

That was my rig for a while...



Looked quite cool but, if I'm honest, the RBI wasn't such a great match with the XLS1500 as it didn't seem to put out a strong enough signal to really drive the power amp. It was alright, but nowhere near as loud as the XLS is actually capable of when used for PA and driven by a decent mixer.

Maybe not bargain of the century, but I was pleased with my as-new Peavey VB-2 that I picked up for under half its RRP a couple of months ago. When the Peavey warehouse closed and they auctioned everything off, a bloke bought one as an investment and held on to it hoping that it'd become insanely desirable and pay for his retirement. By the time I saw it advertised and bought it from him, he was happy just to get the cupboard space and his investment back!

I noticed the same with mine - both Indonesian and bought within a few weeks of each other. Sadly I can't tell you what the weight of the combo was as-new because I've taken the Combo Head 2 out of mine and replaced it with a Little Mark 800, but the LM800 is definitely heavier than the CH2 so the combo will be slightly heavier now than it was when I bought it and there's still over 1kg difference between the combo and cabinet.

Modified combo in roqsolid cover = 12.68kg.
Stock cabinet in roqsolid cover = 13.82kg.

My best guess is that some of the reduction in weight of the combo comes from the wood that's missing to allow for the amp head, and some of the extra weight of the cabinet is in the metal top handle and tweeter attenuator that the combo doesn't have; the rest that I can't visually account for I've just put down to construction / bracing, and I've never let it unduly concern me. Most of the time I only need to take the combo out to gigs, so that being the slightly lighter half of the rig is just a little bonus.

£300 would get you a new Bose A1 "PackLite" - the power amp module that normally runs the B1 and B2 bass modules in their L1 line array systems. I picked one up when I saw it going cheap ex-demo a few months back because it looked like a handy backup not only for me, but also our guitarists as both use pre / power rack rigs. It's 'only' 250W at 4ohms but it's plenty loud enough and no bigger than a slightly old-school desktop hard drive. I've used it with a VT-Bass DI as a preamp and it performed perfectly.

The Beyerdynamic Opus 89 was a good female lead mic. Sadly it's discontinued, but the Beyerdynamic TG V71d seems to be their current take on the same idea so might be worth a look.

I have the passive version of the ART (Z-Direct?) somewhere kicking about; I was playing sound-tech as a last-minute favour to a mate a few years back and needed another DI, but I knew it'd ultimately be out of my own pocket so got the cheapest thing at the first shop I could get to. It's sturdy enough, has all the features you'd expect (maybe even some you might not given the price) and it's a lot less noisy than some I've used. It doesn't get much of a look-in these days because I've picked up various Radial units over the years, but if I had to use it I wouldn't be worried.

No experience of the Samson (though I've got a couple of their mic's and they've been fine) but at the lower-priced end of the market I've used Behringer's DI20 and DI100 units, and neither sound as good to me as the ART. That said, they all sound a bit flat compared to the Radial Pro-DI and Pro-48, which aren't massively expensive themselves and would be my recommendation to anyone wanting a decent DI.

New top-scorer for me; the house amp at a venue we played a couple of weeks ago turned out to be a Stagg CA-100B/115 and it is easily the worst amp I've ever ended up trying to play through. Was an all-dayer with short changeovers and nowhere to store kit, and I was on public transport anyway so just thought 'sod it, I'll play through whatever they're providing'. In the end, after a coupe of mins trying to find a tone that was loud enough without being fuzzy and on the edge of feedback, I just turned it off and went with a clean DI and a bit of bass in the monitors.

A definite +1 on being surprised that the LMIII and 4ohm 104HF are running out of steam - I have an old LMII, a new style LMIII and an LM800, and whilst the LM800 is very likely capable of a bit more volume, I've certainly never been in a position to test the theory in practice!

To my ears, compared to the LMII/LMIII the LM800 sounds a bit less rounded, a bit more 'snappy' and can sometimes even feel just a bit clinical; I would say that whatever has been done to the power stage in the newer LMIII heads, the amp as a whole still has more in common with the LMII than the LM800. On that basis, you may find that the LM800 caters better for your requirement to put a hole right through a much bigger sound not because of the additional wattage, but rather just because of its slightly different delivery.

[quote name='Hobbayne' timestamp='1439143395' post='2840375']
If you can scrape together another 50 quid, This would be ideal.
You may of course get them cheaper 2nd hand.

http://www.gak.co.uk/en/mark-bass-mini-combo-cmd-121-p/4276?gclid=Cj0KEQjw9JuuBRC2xPG59dbzkpIBEiQAzv4-GxoElMF_fQsR3fLzldkJuQ6p7FUSg6w21h8nHSQzy1caAuNh8P8HAQ
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Yup, the 121p is where it's at for me - absolutely great little combo and you can always add the NY121 extension later if you feel the need. It's plenty loud enough on its own, though.

[quote name='VTypeV4' timestamp='1438887145' post='2838466']
Nice vintage Peavey setup there, Ed! Best of both worlds with a modern cab too..
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Cheers!

I recently re-valved it all with Svetlana Winged-C 6L6GCs and [font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif"][color="#282828"]Electro-Harmonix 12AX7EHs as both the Classic Series 60 and the TB Raxx still had their original Peavey valves installed and I figured that the time was well overdue to spend a bit of money on them. Read up on production valves and decided on the cleanest sounding ones, then went with all 'premium selected' and a 'balanced' one for the power amp phase inverter - not sure if it makes any difference but it was about a tenner more across the entire order so thought what the hell, I'll allow myself to be pulled in by the advertising! Sounds really good, anyway - plenty of bounce and more clean headroom than before, with just a bit of subtle grit when pushed.[/color][/font]

Mine's just the single 60, but still hangs with a loud metal band when you put it through an efficient cab. Good score!

I got my G30 when they first came out and I was still using a 6U rack rig, so it was easy to hide the receiver in the back of the rack and it was great to be able to take the front and back covers off, plug in one speaker cable, one mains and one XLR for DI if needed, strap on the belt pack and just play. Plus the rack tuner I was using at the time had an input on the back which I used for the wireless, but which was defeated by the input on the front so I could keep a cable on top of the rig as a backup and if anything went wrong with the wireless, just plug into the front and bypass it. Nothing ever did go wrong...

These days I generally use a combo which is smaller than my old 6U rack and just plug in using a cable, so the G30 lives on my pedalboard (nothing fancy - wireless, tuner, compressor, sansamp) which gets used when I have to plug into a provided rig. They're the gigs where I think it's probably best to be isolated as much as possible from any potentially dodgy equipment, it's most useful to be able to get out front and hear what needs to be tweaked as a result of running into somebody else's gear, and generally it's most cramped on stage (which is why everyone's been told they're playing through the provided rig in the first place) so there's a greater chance of getting tangled up.

I say go and get yourself one!

To my mind, the satellite tweeter box for the 801 would only make sense if the amp section had both filters. As it is, it only has the VPF, and it's the VLE that can be used to somewhat tame the tweeter in the combos that have them fitted but don't have an attenuator. What I'd really like is a matching 1x8 cabinet to turn the 801 into a modular 802 :-)

Purely personal preference here, and it's one that appears to put me in a minority, but I don't enjoy playing Markbass heads with Barefaced cabs as much as I do with matching Markbass ones. Obviously I can only base that on what I own (G2 Midget vs NY121 with the tweeter off for smaller gigs, or G2 Super Twelve vs CMD121p + NY121 extension for larger ones) and it could be because I owned Markbass gear before I owned any Barefaced, but a matching amp and cab sounds 'like a Markbass rig' to me, and something of that gets lost when I swap the cab out.

[quote name='Greg.Bassman' timestamp='1435871967' post='2813305']
Hey Ed. That's amazing mate, very assuring- especially coming from an ex ashdown player. Appreciate it mate!
[/quote]

[quote name='Greg.Bassman' timestamp='1435872381' post='2813310']
A lot of guys that I've spoke to about markbass gear all use active basses, does it matter that I only use PASSIVE basses? I'm currently playing a fender jazz.
[/quote]

No worries at all mate!

As well as Markbass heads, two of the other amps I use with my 104HR are a MiBass 550 and an ABM 1000, so I'm still an Ashdown player when the mood takes me :-)

I mainly use passive Fenders, too (currently tending to pick up my Aerodyne Jazz for gigs, so passive P/J configuration) and it all sounds good to me.

Is the special build because there are none left in the shops, or because there's a custom element to the one they're making for you? Hope you enjoy the 1000 when it arrives - I'm still glad I happened upon mine when I did!

I use a 104HR as my rehearsal cab and can't think of a time I've ever been unhappy with it. It gets used with a variety of heads (including a LM3) and all of them sound great through it. It actually replaced an Ashdown ABM 410t, and I used to have the ABM500 to match, so I know where you're coming from and there's no way I'd swap back! You'd probably find the low end a little more 'controlled' than you're used to with the ABM, but it's no less present.

Decided to treat my old Peavey TB Raxx and Classic Series 60 rig to some new valves since they were both still running on the factory originals. Went for a matched pair of Svetlana Winged-C 6L6GCs and four 'premium selected' Electro-Harmonix 12AX7EH, one being 'balanced' for the power amp phase inverter - figured I might as well try to do it properly. Took it out yesterday for an instrumental-only rehearsal while our singer's on holiday and it sounded absolutely huge; my 60W was hanging just fine with a loud drummer and two guitarists who weren't making any allowances, and either the new song we were working on is a really good 'un or I was enjoying the all-valve action more than I expected!

[color=#000000][font=-apple-system-font][size=3]
[quote name='Naetharu' timestamp='1432905150' post='2786090']
Out of interest, what it is about the Markbass amp that makes you suggest that as the go-to practice amp?
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[color=#000000][font=-apple-system-font][size=3]
To me, the Micromark is just a nice, even-toned amp with un-fussy controls and plenty of power, that's been built into a sturdy and very conveniently sized little box with a good quality speaker, and the whole thing manages to sound a lot fuller and louder than it ever 'should' to look at it. For the practice bit you get aux-in and phones-out with the ability to mute the internal speaker using a button on the back, and for playing out you get the ability to power another 8ohm cabinet and a really nice sounding DI-out to send to the PA.[/size][/font][/color]

[quote name='landwomble' timestamp='1432829394' post='2785413']
The corollary of this is if you insist on playing through your kit - I think you have to allow everyone else to play through it too.
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I would venture to add "...or make your gear so sensibly sized and easy to manage that it sits in front or on top of what may already be there, takes no more than 5 minutes to set up and pack away, and just needs one XLR to the desk." That's my position on multi-band nights and I've never had any issues from sound guys.