Skol303

[quote name='lowdown' post='1165417' date='Mar 17 2011, 09:30 AM']A midi controller will not give you [realistic] sounds.
It will just transmit the midi data.[/quote]

^ Yup. An important distinction that...there's a big difference between MIDI controllers and MIDI keyboards. They both look the same (i.e. they both have piano keys), but controllers are just that - tools for controlling and playing sounds that are stored in other devices (be they hardware or software); whereas MIDI keyboards or synths are instruments in their own right - which can also be used as controllers.... if that makes any sense?! Your best bet, money-wise, is to buy a decent MIDI controller to control a software synth (i.e. a synth built into a DAW, or as a VST), rather than invest in a MIDI synth (hardware) straight away.

In terms of your proposed set up it looks fine to me!

I can't comment on the mics - but only because I don't use them at all myself; the only audio I ever record is electric bass.

The Presonus is a nice interface which should stand you in good stead.

If it's within budget, I'd opt for the larger (i.e. 49 key) midi controller. It won't be as portable, but it'll improve your 'workflow' in the long-run. Not a big issue though.

Reaper (as mentioned before) is a brilliant DAW for the money. Try it out for free before you buy. I'd also recommend downloading a demo of Record:

[url="http://www.propellerheads.se/products/record/"]http://www.propellerheads.se/products/record/[/url]

^ I personally find this to be the 'daddy' of all audio-based DAWs, at least for the price range. It'd be perfect for what you need, as it's specifically designed for working with audio, and I'd argue is a better buy than Reaper in that regard. Personally I love it; but then people always have their own favourites and will ultimately recommend what they use themselves! ;-) Worth trying it out anyway.

In short: looks like you have a nice set up in the making!

[quote name='JayPH' post='1162780' date='Mar 15 2011, 09:43 AM']I'm in the same process as the OP of starting a home/mobile studio and I've been up and down. One minute I'm close to spending £700 on a rig next I think I'm just wasting my money.

I agree with your point. Some people will do great stuff on a shoestring and other people spend grands and realise it isn't really for them. Thi shappens in anything, golf, fishing whatever. But on that subject I would be concerned if you started with cheap stuff your music would sound naff so it would be hard to get the right motivation to really get stuck in.[/quote]

^ No probs, I totally understand your concerns re: low-end gear.

My tips here would be to pick up a copy of both Reaper (http://www.reaper.fm/) and Audacity (http://audacity.sourceforge.net/) - unless you already have them, of course! ;-) Both of these softwares come highly recommended by most folks - they're easy to use (esp. Reaper) and very cheap: Reaper retails at about £60-80 last time I checked for the full version, but you can run the fully-working demo for free for as long as you like. Audacity is completely free. A friend of mine, who runs a studio for a living, still uses Reaper as the basis for most of his own music - it's THAT good and a serious contender against the more expensive DAWs like ProTools.

I personally use Reason & Record for the vast majority of things (http://www.propellerheads.se/). You can pick up both as a bundle for around £300 - so not exactly cheap, but well-priced compared to others. It's all a matter of personal preference, but I love Reason/Record because they're so damn quick and easy to use - you can literally throw down some ideas in 10 minutes and then come back and work on them in detail at a later stage. This helps if - like me - you tend to hit upon a good idea for a piece of music and then the next minute it's vanished from your memory! I also like the user-interface on Reason; but again it's a matter of "horses for courses", as the saying goes.

Anyway, hope this help and happy twiddling!

Pretty much all the best sources for drum loops have already been listed... but any Google search will bring up literally thousands/millions of possibilities to choose from! (which can be quite daunting in fact...).

A few other tips:

- Buy a copy of 'Computer Music' magazine (£6ish; made by the same publisher who runs the Music Radar website). It includes a cover disc that is normally jam-packed with drum loops and other samples - plus a bundle of useful software for playing them on.

- Try making drum loops yourself! Seriously... it's actually a fun thing to do and personally speaking taught me a whole bunch of useful stuff about rhythm, which in turn has helped my bass playing. Again, there's loads of freeware available for doing this at no cost. Have a Google...

Here's what I used in terms of filler and lacquer:

Wood filler - [url="http://www.ronseal.co.uk/products/multi-purpose-wood-filler"]http://www.ronseal.co.uk/products/multi-purpose-wood-filler[/url]

Polyurethane-based varnish (clear gloss finish) - [url="http://www.ronseal.co.uk/products/diamond-hard-varnish"]http://www.ronseal.co.uk/products/diamond-hard-varnish[/url]

... bought both from local B&Q, if that helps.

Here's my own thread on the same topic:

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=117094"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=117094[/url]

Good luck with it! :-)

[quote name='cheddatom' post='1155143' date='Mar 9 2011, 12:12 PM']I have no problem recording 20 tracks simultaneously on my crap old PC with M-Audio PCI cards. I'm not sure if that's much help though![/quote]

^ You know what? There's a lot to be said for doing things with minimal equipment!

I cut my musical teeth, so to speak, using only shareware/freeware software on a knackered old Macintosh (which eventually packed up and took all of my hard work with it... but that's another story!).

Fact is, you learn so much more that way than people who just jump in and spend a ton of cash on the latest kit from the outset. Working with limited tools, or on a limited budget, makes you much more creative in my opinion. And then when you finally get your hands on some better quality equipment, you really know how to get the best out of it!

Same goes for all aspects of music. There'll always be those who produce brilliant stuff using the bare minimum, and vice-versa: those who have "all the gear and no idea"! ;-)

Too lazy to read all of this thread (soz!).

But I'm guessing that people delete all of the background 'blurb' in sales threads so that potential buyers don't have to scroll to the last page to find out whether the product in question has been sold.

I.e. it avoids people checking out the first page then sending the seller a PM asking whether it's still for sale.

Just chipping in to say I love this piece too!

[stealth bragging alert]: I learn it in a about a fortnight, so my playing can't be as bad as I thought, based on some of the comments here (I've only been playing bass since Xmas... after a 15+ year hiatus from being in bands as a teenager!) ;-)

Makes for a great finger 'warm-up' and for me, it's become the basis of me learning notation.

Big up the Bach!

[quote name='hellothere' post='1150594' date='Mar 5 2011, 02:31 PM']I have recently started learning Anesthesia by Cliff Burton, something I know alot of people learn quite early on but it has taken me a while to get round to it.[/quote]

... just out of interest, which section of Anesthesia is making your hand hurt? i.e. the first bit, or the second half when the drums kick in?

I've always found the first section fairly easy to play, and second section more challenging. That said, there are a few 'workarounds' (i.e. cheats!) for the second half, which cut out some of the more difficult stretches and finger work. Have a look on Google/YouTube if that helps.

If it's the first bit that's causing you problems, then I hate to say it, but it sounds like you might have a problem beyond this particular bass solo - with RSI or similar - and if so I strongly recommend you have a chat with a doctor before trying to force you way through Anesthesia, just to be on the safe side.

'Tis is a great solo though! Cliff was a far more 'intelligent' player than most people give him credit for... I moved on to learning some of the Bach cello suites after being inspired by Mr Burton! :-)

R.I.P. indeed.

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='1153523' date='Mar 8 2011, 10:37 AM']I'm surprised that some people are strongly recommending Macs over PCs.[/quote]

^ You're right that this kind of discussion normally ends up with the usual PC vs Mac fanboy debate! ;-)

I personally use Macs, always have. My current machine hasn't crashed - not once - in nearly two years of music production. Seriously; not one single crash.

Whether or not that's worth the extra expense is obviously a personal choice. But for me it is.

Other than that, it's all about the software and ensuring you have a fast enough machine to run it on. I personally use Reason/Record software (developed by Propellerhead), but I'd strongly recommend Audacity and/or Reaper for anyone starting out - both excellent softwares, both run on just about any PC or MC and are available for next to no money. Can't argue with that!

Just stumbled across this article on the Music Radar website... it's their video compilation of "10 killer bass solos".

Some classics among them, but doubtless many others that could - or should - have made the list.

Check it out if you're interested:

[url="http://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/10-killer-bass-solos-392071"]http://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/10-...ss-solos-392071[/url]

I think it's already been mentioned, but Electro-Harmonix (EHX) 'Big Muff' pedals get my vote...

The original 'Russian' Big Muff is meant to be a prize find as they're increasingly rare these days. I personally have a 'Little Big Muff', which does the job for me just fine - I prefer it to the 'Bass Big Muff', as the 'Little' version has a brighter, less 'muddy' sound in my opinion.

Just to quickly chime in here...

I used to know f-all about music theory/notation and played exclusively using tabs. Telling me to play a 'C' would have meant nothing to me: you'd have had to say "A string, third fret", or whatever...

I'm currently learning notation - very slowly but surely - and I have to say that I'm finding it to be both a) a huge boost to my understanding of how music is composed; and surprisingly interesting and addictive!

I don't play with other musicians, as I'm more of a studio geek to be honest, but I'm now able to identify rudimentary notes on a keyboard too, so it's proving very useful for me personally.

Just giving my experience as a newbie! ;-)

Plenty of good advice in this thread!

People tend to recommend what they use themselves, so my advice would be to try before you buy.

That said, you generally can't go wrong with a pair of Sennheisers... but my personal preference would be a pair of AKGs (I own 'phones made by both brands).

One of the best bargains I've found are the AKG K240 MK 2 (MK II): [url="http://www.dawsons.co.uk/acatalog/akg_k240_mk_2_stereo_studio_headphones.html"]http://www.dawsons.co.uk/acatalog/akg_k240...headphones.html[/url]

Unbeatable 'phones for your buck$! :-)

[quote name='Doddy' post='1138702' date='Feb 23 2011, 03:29 PM']I'm not denying the influence he may have had on people-I've mentioned that already. But to me his playing and both Joy Division
and New Order,have done nothing for me personally as a musician.

And why does not being able to hum the bass part Blue Monday mean I'm not qualified to comment? I'm sure that the vast majority
of New Order fans couldn't hum it either. I couldn't hum you every bassline to my favourite bands songs,but it doesn't mean that
I'm not qualified to comment on them.[/quote]

^ Fair 'nuff, as you say, I guess different people take inspiration or are influenced by different things. There's obviously no 'right or wrong' involved, just personal preference.

As for humming the bassline to Blue Monday... I meant that in jest; I must have read your comment previously but didn't intend to single you out with my remark; so apologies if you took offence. Personally speaking, I can hum the bassline of Blue Monday quite happily, but that's me! My point was that some folks here - not necessarily your good self - don't seem like fans of Joy Division or New Order, which - I'd argue - means they're perhaps not aware of the influence those bands had on similar artists of that genre.

On topic: Hooky is certainly on poor form in the video posted originally in this thread, so I understand why he's copping for a lot of flak here. I'd argue that doesn't mean he's not an influential bassist - because for me, being influential and being a 'good' musician don't always go hand-in-hand, rightly or wrongly.

[quote name='Jerry_B' post='1137994' date='Feb 23 2011, 12:48 AM']Well, one man's poison is another man's meat - personally I don't see the fascination with Jaco's or Geedy's playing, but at the end of the day what you decide is valid is whatever is an influence. Like it or not, Hooky has inspired alot of people to take up the bass and get into it as an instrument, which is no bad thing at the end of the day.[/quote]

^ Spot on.

I mean, if you're a lover of jazz or soft rock, then Peter Hook probably won't mean much to you.

If, like me, you were weaned on acid house and the early 'Manchester Sound' then the likes of Hooky and Joy Division / New Order will be up there in your own personal Hall of Fame.

I'm just wondering whether those of us who are questioning Joy Division's influence really know much about the band or the genres of music they clearly DID influence? No disrespect meant by that... I, for example, don't know the first thing about jazz so I wouldn't feel comfortable waxing lyrical about whether a particular jazz bassist was influential or not.

If you can't hum the bassline to Blue Monday off the top of your head, for instance, then I'd argue you're probably not qualified to comment on the influence of New Order/JD! Again, no offence intended ;-)

[quote name='TransistorBassMan' post='1136784' date='Feb 22 2011, 09:59 AM']Peter Hook is good at what he does and it works brilliantly within the context of Joy Division and New Order. I wonder how good Love Will Tear Us Apart would have been without that bassline.... I'm not going to slag him off![/quote]

^ This gets a +1 from me.

And let's face it, maybe Peter Hook is testament to the fact that there's more to making it in the 'music biz' than having technical chops. I mean sure, it's easy to criticise if you're a well-practiced bedroom or pub-band musician... but he was to a large degree the 'rock' upon which JD (and the Hacienda nightclub) were built, so props to him for that.

But then I'm an adopted Mancunian, so I'm bound to look after my own! ;-)

[quote name='CrackerJackLee' post='1132955' date='Feb 19 2011, 12:06 AM']I'm also striving to put a practice routine together by practicing major scales with their relative minor scales and playing and analysing pieces from Bach's Cello Suites to educate my ear and train my fingers.[/quote]

^ Weird... I'm doing pretty much the same thing myself right now!

I'm still very much a beginner, so I tend to spend a lot of time practicing major and minor scales to help build up my finger strength/speed/stamina.

I'm also using Bach's Cello Suites to help me learn notation. Just finished learning the Prelude of Suite 1 (the easy one!), which itself is great for stretching and warming up fingers.

^ Nice one folks, good to know there's a few more of us tech heads on here!

I'm working on a few tracks at the moment that involve some recorded audio (muggins here playing bass), which I'll upload/link to once they're finished so you can have a good laugh ;-) I might also share a few home-made synth patches and .rex files once I get my ass in gear.

Currently spending more time playing bass than actually recording - only because I'm trying to get my playing up to scratch and learn some notation.

Might also have a 'live' gig in the pipeline this year, which fills me with fear to be honest! I'm hearing very good things about using Ableton for this purpose, and I notice some of you here recommend it, so I'll have to check it out and have a play.

Happy twiddling!

First thing in the morning after a cup of coffee for me... (ba-da-boom-tish!)

Sorry, couldn't resist! I'll get me coat...

[quote name='EssentialTension' post='1118176' date='Feb 6 2011, 08:02 PM']Bach - [i]Cello Suite #1[/i] played by Jeff Bradetich on double bass.[/quote]

^ I've just learn this Cello Suite based on your recommendation here, so cheers! :-)

Nice piece of music and enjoyable to play - makes for a damn good finger 'warm up' too.

Can't say I have experience of this myself. But friends of mine who have made the leap into full-time gigging have had mixed experiences: some good, but mostly bad I'm sorry to say.

The biggest 'risk' (aside from income) seems to be turning a hobby that you love dearly into a badly paid job that you might end up hating even more than your current day job...

Just saying.

... does the Pope poop in the woods? Are bears Catholic??

In other words: yes please!! :-)

Would it be a 'faux pas' to mention Cliff Burton's (Metallica) bass solos in this thread? E.g. Anesthesia; Orion; Call of Ktulu.

Ah, what the hell - metal up your a$$, and all that! ;-)

[quote name='Commando Jack' post='1120310' date='Feb 8 2011, 05:25 PM']Ableton Live gets bundled with a lot of audio interfaces, so there would be chance he already had it. It's unlikely he'd have a copy of recycle kicking about, unless bought specifically for that purpose.[/quote]

^ Very good point! My bad ;-)

I'm not sure, but I think I have a copy of Ableton on a few magazine cover discs too... probably limited to 'save disabled' or whatever, but still. I guess it's more likely to be found as a freebie than ReCycle: though I still stick by ReCycle as being the 'daddy' of working with loops and samples.

[quote name='Commando Jack' post='1120088' date='Feb 8 2011, 01:55 PM']Software-wise I would think that Ableton live is the one that is built for this kind of thing, but I haven't tried it.[/quote]

^ Err... yeah, or Propellerhead ReCycle, which is exactly built for this kind of thing! ;-)