Gareth Hughes

[size=4][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]I'm not sure if the balanced connector trick will work but here's something to consider that might shed some light on what's going on. Piezo pickups have a completely different output compared to magnetic pickups, and until recently most bass amps were designed with electric bass in mind. Markbass heads (Little Mark and F1/F500 heads anyway) have an input impedance of 50,000 ohms.[/font][/size]

[size=4][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]Here's what Bob Gollihur at www.gollihurmusic.com has to say about it all:[/font][/size]

[color=#4b0082][size=3][b]Do You Need a Preamp?[/b]

Your amp or other device you plug your pickup into will determine that -- the [i]input impedance[/i] of the amp affects how a pickup sounds.

Piezo (most common) and similar acoustic instrument pickups are very different from the magnetic pickups you find in electric guitars and basses, and most amps are aimed at that market. Keep in mind that when you plug something into an amplifier, it becomes part of the circuit, and that circuit is designed for a specific impedance range. If there is a mismatch, problems result. There are three general impedance values, as follows: [/size][/color][list]
[*][color=#4b0082]Most bass amplifier inputs usually aim for around 50,000 ohms, which is considered "high impedance" -- electric guitar/bass pickups and general use dynamic microphones' impedances are designed to be compatible with that input impedance.[/color]
[*][color=#4b0082]Low impedance (like condenser mics and higher quality mics with XLR connectors (three pins inside a circular shell) match best with an input around 600 ohms.[/color]
[*][color=#4b0082]Piezo transducers want an input load in the 1-10 [i]million+[/i] ohms (1-10 megohms) range. ULTRA-High impedance.[/color]
[/list]
[color=#4b0082]So it's no wonder odd things happen. They can also often have a frequency response bump that further contributes to the odd sound -- that brittle, raspy, all highs and no lows sound that makes you think you have a bad pickup. Probably not -- you just need a buffering/impedance matching preamp. You can improve the sound by EQ'ing it to death, but it still isn't the same.

[b]Here are some reasons why you should have or should consider using a preamp between the pickup and amplifier:[/b] [/color][list]
[*][color=#4b0082]the input impedance specification of your amplifier is under 1 megohm
[i]...also expressed as 1,000,000 ohms or 1Mohm; being close to that value, like 800K, is usually ok. This is probably the most common reason for using a preamp. [/i][/color]
[*][color=#4b0082]there are features available from the preamp that are not on your amp, that can enhance or help with problems
[i]...like more precision or flexible tone controls, phase reversal, a DI output, high pass filter, etc.[/i][/color]
[*][color=#4b0082]you want/need a convenience volume control (and tone controls?) close to you, for when your amplifier is not at your feet
[i]since at higher volumes you will likely need to place the amplifier further away from you, so avoid feedback and other undesirable sounds[/i][/color]
[*][color=#4b0082]your pickup's output is very low, so you need a preamp to increase its signal level to better match your amplifier[/color]
[/list]
[color=#4b0082]Even with an amp that seems to handle the ultra-high impedance of a piezo pickup, I often like the buffering/matching effect of a preamp, and I think in most cases they are necessary for the best and most realistic-sounding results. They can also give you convenient control of volume and tone without having to move towards your amp, which can cause feedback problems depending on volume. I have experimented and found the Bass Max can be more "acceptable" without a preamp, but the Double Big Twin really benefits/needs a preamp for best results. Acceptable? that's a call you'll have to make - if you buy without a preamp, try to borrow one to try.

I've also experimented with the K&K Twin Spot on my old '27 "the gibson" tenor guitar, and while it is more acceptable than the bass pickup experience (it's tuned very high), the warmth and improved character that a preamp adds confirms my personal decision to never plug into an amp without one, unless it is designed to handle the ultra-high impedances of piezo-based pickups.

So, unless you have one of those special amps* that are designed to accommodate piezo pickups, I suggest that you use some sort of buffering preamp with [i]any[/i] piezo pickup, or you won't be getting everything these and other pickups have to offer. Some "stomp boxes," when not in bypass mode (turned off) and other preamps may be ok; check the input impedance specification of your device. If it is 1 megohm or higher, it should do the buffering/matching job. [/color]

[size=4][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif]Back to me speaking - here's something else to consider: I used to think that the higher the impedance the better as it would let all the low frequencies through that I wanted. Trouble is that in amplifying a double bass there's a lot of those low frequencies that are completely unnecessary and only serve to make your gig life hell. I had been using a Fishman Dual Parametric DI, with an input impedance of 10Mohms - doing what I was told - but I was constantly fighting feedback and using the parametric eq to take out all the low frequencies. Then I tried using something with a lower impedance in an effort to get rid of some of those lows. Tried a BOSS pedal, with an input impedance of 1 Mohm and it cleared things up so much. In effect it acts like a high pass filter. I don't know what frequency it cuts at but it works a whole lot better for me than what I had been using. So before you go buying a preamp with a 10Mohm impedance I'd try something like a BOSS pedal (any one will do, they're all 1 Mohm) and see if that helps - oh, and the pickup has to be plugged into that first, or else it's irrelevant.[/font][/size]

I think it's a very beautiful sound - yes, there's a few moments where a little fairy dust up top would be nice, but I'd happily sacrifice that in order to hear that smooth dark tone.

F**KING AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's what you call them. Just saw this posted over on Talkbass. Check it out and smile gratuitously

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cC0FeLVsg7c&feature=g-all-fbc&context=G234290eFAAAAAAAAKAA

I'd have done, and have done, the exact same. Fair play to you. One has to draw the line somewhere - and for me, if I can't find a single redeeming or worthwhile factor then that's it. I was rehearsing and gigging with a student big band, for no pay, because I wanted to swot up on my sight-reading - getting charts like 'Spain' and 'Willowcrest' and playing them with absolutely no preparation. All good. Until the band leader barely acknowledges you and then completely blanks you when he's a punter at another gig I was doing. I thought - Tw*t - and left it at that. When the gig-triangle is missing all it's pieces it's time to leave.

Probably already been said here (haven't read everything yet) but Bill Nash made a fair point, I think, in that once Leo Fender sold Fender then EVERYTHING became a copy of Fender. I might be re-interpreting what he said but the gist of it was that it was Leo who made Fender what it was therefore without him, it's a copy in the same way Sadowsky or Lakland, etc is. For example - If Leo Fender never set foot in any of the Japanese Fender factories, then how can they be said to be a Fender? They are just making copies. Not a bad thing - just a different thing than if Leo was making them.

Who builds the best is up to individual assessment.

[quote name='4 candles' timestamp='1326832557' post='1502620']
sorry i lied in my origonal post. what i meant to say was.

I went to argos on tuesday and brought a bass for £99. went to the wulfrun hall that evening to watch guns and roses. Asked bass player to sign it. he did. tried to sell it on ebay for £8000. cost me a fortune in insertion fees and nobody brought it . lets try and rip off the folk on basschat. no, they are not buying any of it. mabye the bass gallery will take it on a commission sale!
[/quote]

AHA!!!! I see thru your cheap lies sir - everyone knows Duff doesn't play in G'N'R anymore!!!!

Just bought a pile of old Bass Player mags form Andy - paid on Sunday, posted on Monday, arrived today (Tuesday). Andy rocks.

Sorry for your loss. Thanks for posting.

The scale length argument, to me, is poppycock, based on my own experiences. I had a 36" 6 string and a 36" 5 string, and both of their B's were not as focused in sound or tight in feel as the current 34" 5 string I have now. Regarding tension - I've found that the same gauge of string will have less tension if it's strung through the bridge and more tension if it's strung through the body. No scientific reasoning for this, just experience.

PM'd you

Maybe if Victor was playing whilst juggling, and being on a bike, that might have been impressive?

Maybe not. It's a tough crowd out there.

Funny - from the first note he played I could have sworn that was music. Did I miss a meeting?

Apparently it eases the tension.

Well, it seemed an appropriate replacement for 'F*^%ing'.

More bumps (and grinds) for undoubtedly quality, cared for gear.

Oh you shagging tease!!!!

Well I've just speed-read (or sped-read?) this in the last five minutes. I'm hooked. Give me more........ Tell me what the bass is and no-one gets hurt.

I've been gigging with either two UL-112's or a UL-310 for about 4 years now. It's tempting to get a UL-410 but I've rarely found myself ever needing it. After re-reading a 1x12 shoot-out from Bass Player magazine a good few years ago, I tried gigging with just one UL-112 (they mentioned something about the difference in hearing your bass come from a single speaker rather than multiples) and I was duly impressed. Clarity and focus of the sound was something else. Me happy camper.

[quote name='GreeneKing' timestamp='1325531369' post='1484091']

Halleluya


[/quote]

Jaco played with Leonard Cohen?

(I was tempted to put down yer one from X Factor but that was going too far)

My quick 2p's worth is that my CIJ 75 Jazz Reissue is of better construction quality than my MIA 2008 American Standard Jazz.

Hey Bilbo - I can't seem to open the file on my Mac. First time I've come across an ipb file. Any ideas?

EDIT - Just found the file on the miguelzenon.com site. Thanks for this.

Bump for a truly righteous envelope filter. It may be cheap and nasty and not have all the bells and whistles that others offer but that's irrelevant - it's the sound that matters and this thing sounds FILTHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have two, plus a Micro Q-Tron and, for me, they are the absolute of filters. Better than their bigger EHX brothers and, dare I say it - better than the 3 Leaf Audio Proton. I had a Proton and, call me a slag, I just couldn't get it filthy enough.

I'm not connected to this sale in any way - I'm just spreading my Q-Tron love all over you

Lovely lovely. Looks great, and very classy indeed. Thanks for posting.

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1325335704' post='1482206']
I'm not saying it works for everyone
[/quote]

I was getting worried there was a cure until I read this bit - now I return to my old procrastinating ways.

I've been running 500w at 4ohms heads into my UL310 for about three years now and it is LOUD!!!!

In case it hasn't been said already - stand beside or in view of the guitarist/keyboard/whoever knows the songs best and keep your eyes glued to them for changes/stops/mouthing the chords, etc. And DON'T PANIC!!!!

I had to do this in one afternoon - about 20 songs of all original music (bass player's father took ill) for Duke Special. Just keep your eyes and ears open.