Sub_Drop

Thanks everyone for some amazing ideas. I was generally on about improvising in both senses (soloing and creating bass lines). I have tried the singing method, and its really does work. I do know my arpeggios and scales quite well, but I could improve still of course. The rhythmic idea of knowing exactly where your going to play in the measure is an interesting method, not sure if my sense of rhythm is that good.

Hey guys and girls, It has only just occurred that when improvisation over chord progressions and so on, my improvisation is limited and not really creative in the musical sense. It usually ends up sounding like i'm playing the basic groove with fast, 16th note fills. Does anyone have any methods or tips to help me think more creatively and musically with improvisation. Knowing scales and chord tones is all fine and I can use these techniques quite well but its more the rhythmic element which just goes off on one. thanks alot in advance anyway

Has been ages, sine I've posted on this. But thanks alot for all the songs, ideas and exercises. I'm slowly getting better at it.

[quote name='Joe Hubbard Bass' post='950429' date='Sep 9 2010, 11:40 AM']Okay, once you are comfortable tapping the 16th note paradiddle patterns while counting the downbeats out loud (remember not to tap your foot), you are now ready for the next exercise. But before we introduce the bass into the matrix, you have to nail another tapping exercise. This time you will tap the same paradiddle pattern, except instead of playing them in 16th note you will play them in 8th note triplets. Notice how this creates a polyrhythmic feel. You should be able to go between the straight 16ths and triplets at will. All the same rules apply when counting- first start off with no metronome and then slowly introduce the metronome while gradually increasing the tempo. One note: these tapping drills are all about developing an understanding and interpretation of feel. Some people rush through these and don’t count out loud or are tapping their feet while playing through them. If this is the case, you are wasting your time. This is a “skill developing drill.” No one will ask you whether you can tap out paradiddles on a gig, but the results of understanding these rhythmic concepts will turbo charge your playing with the right progression, so hang with me. Peace Joe[/quote] Hey Joe, sorry for the massive delay. I've only just managed to get the straight 16ths and triplets alternating, never thought they would be so difficult one after another. What's the next stage mate? peace Steven

[quote name='johnnylager' post='949739' date='Sep 8 2010, 06:46 PM'][url="http://www.youtube.com/pokemusic"]http://www.youtube.com/pokemusic[/url][/quote] Is the song 'Innominate Nightmare' in 7/8 and 6/8 or would you say it was a massive bar of 13/8?

[quote name='Joe Hubbard Bass' post='950429' date='Sep 9 2010, 11:40 AM']Okay, once you are comfortable tapping the 16th note paradiddle patterns while counting the downbeats out loud (remember not to tap your foot), you are now ready for the next exercise. But before we introduce the bass into the matrix, you have to nail another tapping exercise. This time you will tap the same paradiddle pattern, except instead of playing them in 16th note you will play them in 8th note triplets. Notice how this creates a polyrhythmic feel. You should be able to go between the straight 16ths and triplets at will. All the same rules apply when counting- first start off with no metronome and then slowly introduce the metronome while gradually increasing the tempo. One note: these tapping drills are all about developing an understanding and interpretation of feel. Some people rush through these and don’t count out loud or are tapping their feet while playing through them. If this is the case, you are wasting your time. This is a “skill developing drill.” No one will ask you whether you can tap out paradiddles on a gig, but the results of understanding these rhythmic concepts will turbo charge your playing with the right progression, so hang with me. Peace Joe[/quote] Awesome, okay thanks for the next step, shall get right on it. Thanks for the help.

[quote name='Joe Hubbard Bass' post='949678' date='Sep 8 2010, 05:52 PM']Hi Sub To learn freedom with odd time signatures, you first have to learn 4/4 time. Many think they understand 4/4, but haven’t really developed the flexibility and freedom that they need to be solid. Here’s a simple drill (without your bass to start): - Tap out a simple 16th note drum paradiddle with your two hands (no metronome…yet) - Next, count 1, 2, 3, 4 out loud as you play the 16ths (don’t count the subdivisions and don’t tap your foot) - If you don’t know the paradiddle pattern it is: RLRR,LRLL,RLRR, LRLL (one bar of 4/4) - Just repeat until you get it down solid. - Next start to add the metronome (note: before adding the metronome, you have to have the pattern down along with the coordination of counting the downbeats). When you get that down, come back and post and I’ll explain how to take it to the bass and beyond. Peace Joe[/quote] Thanks for all the advice people, thanks for the drill Joe, never tried that stuff without a bass to be honest, but I can do that and other note patterns where it isn't even 16th notes and such to a beat with just my hands. so what is the next step to get my timing and odd time patterns better? Thanks in advice anyway Joe. By the way, the name's Ste, since my user name doesn't give that away.

[quote name='TKenrick' post='946445' date='Sep 5 2010, 05:59 PM']As others have already said, total immersion through listening to/analysing/playing odd meter music is the only way to make it feel comfortable. There are a few books on odd time playing, but they're only of real use if you want to get into reading odd time stuff as opposed to being able to groove. This one is fairly dull but if you can work through it then you'll certainly be able to handle almost anything: [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Odd-Time-Reading-Text-Instruments/dp/0769233724/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283705029&sr=1-1"]http://www.amazon.co.uk/Odd-Time-Reading-T...5029&sr=1-1[/url] Personally, I prefer to use songs as a way of getting used to playing in meters other than 4/4, here's a few to start off: Foo Fighters - Times Like These (7/4) Incubus - Nice To Know You (Intro alternates between 6/4 and 4/4) Jeff Beck - Led Boots ('B' section is in 7/4) Oceansize - Catalyst (Intro 7/4, verse alternates between 6/8 and 4/4) Sting - Love Is Stronger Than Justice (7/8), Seven Days (5/4), Saint Augustine in Hell (7/8) Tool - The Grudge (5/4), Vicarious (Mostly in 5/4) I found that learning to count meters out loud while playing made things a whole lot easier, but it took me a long time to be able to separate my mouth/foot from what I was playing. Another thing to try is finding drummers who are comfortable in odd meters and find out how they break them down.[/quote] Thanks for the link to that book, Id love to be able to read more complex rhythms so thats a good help thanks. Also thanks for the artists and song ideas shall have a listen to them all and finally start trying to internalise the 'feel' of odd times.

[quote name='endorka' post='945777' date='Sep 4 2010, 11:57 PM']In my experience, the reason Western musicians cannot initially grasp the feel of odd time signatures, but can comfortably feel 4/4 and 3/4 is because they have had a lifetime of exposure to the latter, but virtually no experience of the former. The only way to gain this ability with odd time signatures is to catch up with your lack of immersion in them; As Dood says, listen and play a lot of stuff like this and eventually playing it will feel natural. It can take a lot of work though; you likely have decades of experience listening and/or playing in 4/4, but probably a few minutes of 9/8 or 11/8. That's a lot of catching up to do. Some ethnic music is based around odd time signatures - one of my deepest experiences of this was playing Bartok's Divertimento, which is based largely around Hungarian rhythms, such as 11/8. It took a lot of practice for me to "get it", but in the end I did :-) Jennifer[/quote] Thanks alot, I guess that's the best way.

[quote name='dood' post='945766' date='Sep 4 2010, 11:23 PM']I'm not sure what sort of music you like listening to, but I found one way was to learn and play along to songs that you know have sections of 'odd signatures'. Although it is important to be able to count the bars and understand their divisions from a theory point of view - I feel it is also important to be able to 'feel' the count when playing or jamming. Hard to describe really - but after a while you embed it in to your mind - it becomes second nature. Try 'Money' by Pink Floyd, (7/4) 'Take 5' by The Dave Brubeck Quartet (5/4) and 'Surrounded' by Dream Theater.. (bit of a ballady song, but has a really tastey 9/8 intro and verses). Whilst looking for ideas, I found a useful wiki! [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_signature"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_signature[/url][/quote] Thanks alot will check out those songs. I've learnt money by pink floyd and listened to take 5 before. I listen to alot of progressive stuff like between the buried and me but anything to do with odd time will help. I understand the theory behind it and know how the rhythms are grouped and felt but actually 'feeling' the count while playing is something I cant do but thanks for the advice

Can anyone recommend any helpful ways to improve on playing in odd time signatures and poly rhythms? I know this is a general question but I'm just looking to improve my sense of timing when things aren't played to a straight 4/4 3/4 beat.

Hey guys and dolls, my names Ste. I've only been playing bass for just over 4 years now. I'm into every style on the planet but my favourites are jazz, funk and groove metal. So far my equipment includes a 5 string basic JM sandberg, a peavey VB 2 all tube bass head, a fretless squire jazz bass and a 300 watt ashdown 4x12 cabinet.