LiturghianPope

I owned a Helix LT, struggled for years with it, with tons of settings and presets which always sounded wrong in one way or the other - but I didn't understand it's purpose and limitations, I was expecting amp-in-the-room sound. I admit that I didn't know how to properly use it and never mastered it, despite spending hundreds of hours tweaking it. Numerous times I thought I've finally managed to create a proper tone just to return a day later to the rehearsal room and be horrified by it. "That" sound was always there - it wasn't the amp I used, the cab or the eq settings. I'm just stating my experience with it. I guess we've all seen bands sounding both good and bad with digitals, and it's amusing and sad when members are enthusiastic of their digital gear, its ease of use and light logistics etc. and then your ears get pierced FOH with unintelligible tones. Also I'm referring mostly to metal and therefore heavy distortion. What I'm trying to say is that I've failed (and witnessed others failing as well) in making digital gear sound "normal" (not even good, just plain normal, if that's an accepted term in this context). I guess that was also the premise of the thread, right?

Sounds interesting, you're hinting at the fact that when you're designing a tone you shouldn't just "use your ears" but rather anticipate the way it's going to be integrated in the whole mix. Something I'm actively trying to figure out and be increasingly more aware of. I actually always found it inconvenient when I was encouraged to focus on what I hear, because that differs according to how much and what I've listened to lately, the room, the time of day, how tired I am and what I ate. But I'm intrigued, do you have any exports of such recordings? Did you use his pickups or similar ones? I mean, as many others, when I use presets (doesn't matter the context - guitar, bass, helix, VST, whatever) they're not even close to sounding "normal" or "acceptable" let alone "good". I end up adjusting them to the point they're nowhere near the original.

There's a lot of stuff i didn't know and in order to understand some of it I need to make more research. This is definitely not the kind of stuff you can understand in a day. And yes, I am trying to rely on the actual sound because that's after all, the whole point. However, one of the underlying aspects of the question, besides wanting to better understand what's going on beneath the casing, was whether passive pickups would allow greater flexibility and the ability to try various different external preamps and hearing major differences, as opposed to active pickups which already use a preamp which has a certain profile. I mean I'd like to try various pedals especially some darkglass ones since they're very popular for metal bass tones and I was wondering if the weight of those pedals in the whole signal chain doesn't diminish if a preamp is already there (the pickup premp). Meaning, maybe, I'll keep trying various pedals but there's something I won't like in the tone and that might be the preamp in the active pickups. Alternatively, changing the pickup preamps is highly inconvenient - I mean sure I'd like to try three or four preamp pedals, but I wouldn't change the pickup preamp three times. Am I being too theoretical and hypotethical here? Am I imagining some cause-effect relationships that don't really translate down in engineering/physics? Just trying to figure out if I should get active pickups or not, I'm currently playing on schecter diamond series and it took me a while to come to the conclusion that I don't like them.

Hello everyone, I am trying to understand the difference between using an active pickup compared to a passive pickup + an external (I mean, outside of the bass) preamp. I guess it's much more versatile to use passive pickups since it offers the possibility to try various preamp pedals, right? But what are the downsides to this? I guess that until not long ago I just took for granted that active pickups are the way to go, especially for heavy music, due to their higher output, but now I'm trying to better understand what are the implications of these two different technologies/approaches. Are active pickups designed different knowing they will be marketed and sold followed by a preamp? Or are they just regular pickups and the whole 'active' pickup thing is just the (optional) addition of a preamp? Thanks in advance looking forward to hear your opinions and past experiences with these two different kinds of pickups.

Awkward. I actually looked for a 'Other' topic and wondered why can't I find it :))

No, I'm definitely not sure. I wasn't aware, I'll check it out. I guess if any mod considers that place to be more suitable for this thread, it can be moved, so that I don't double-post. Thanks!

Yeah I love Tool, when I asked about bands, I meant bands in which members of this community play in, so that we can maybe discuss the rig. I definitely don't chase Justin's tone, with his several thousand dollars rig and top engineers, but rather just try to improve my tone step by step, and go in the right direction. I've seen Tool live I guess they would have sounded just as good with a wide variety of pickups, all I'm saying :)) Appreciate the input!

Hello everyone! I would like to upgrade my Diamond Series on my Schecter Omen Extreme 5. I would also like the new pickups to have the same amount of pots (or, oh well, fewer). I definitely do not want to make any modifications to the body, carve the pickup slots or anything like that. That's why I would appreciate some advice on some pickup models that can be changed without any modifications/issues. Active pickups, that is. Any suggestions and thoughts on the matter are greatly appreciated! Extra info: I play in a progressive metal band - mostly heavy stuff, but, common to the genre, we dwell into melodic, clean parts as well. We are a three-piece band, so just one guitar. Not sure how and if I should take this into account for choosing the pickups. I don't (think I) want a modern metal, 'dingy' sounding tone, but rather a warmer, maybe ...grittier? sound. I'm thinking at Black Sabbath's 13, for example. If someone plays in a three piece metal band and worked towards getting a proper tone to fill in for the lack of a second guitar, send me a link to the band, I'm curious. I have, very recently, made a comparison with an Ibanez SR 505. The BH-2 Bartolini are quieter but also cleaner. While it seemed exciting at first, the Diamond Series seem to be unnecessarily loud and dirty for me. I'd rather add distortion with pedals, based on a clean sound, rather than having that huge gain out of the box. I wonder if higher-end pickups have an output similar to the Bartolini or to the Diamond Series...? For now I'm just thinking pickups upgrade. I know that based on the specifics above, suggestions may include other gear as well - it's all welcome and appreciated.

Fair enough. I misspoke, now that I'm reading what I wrote. Ideally, I'd just like to sell these, and get something more appropriate or better for this particular use for the money. If we have to top it a bit, in case there's a highly significant improvement, we can do that too. But yeah, certainly not going to bust the bank just to get a slightly better sound at rehearsals. Maybe ignore that 1000 euro mark, I may have rushed saying that. It's more of an exchange plan, with the possibility of a little extra. The speakers are currently valued at about 800 euro new. It's not that these active speakers don't work, it's those huge 15'' speakers that are...you know... improperly used. And most of the voice is just coming out of the horns. I was thinking maybe something with 6'' / 8'' speakers, even if at a lower power, might deliver better for vocals. I really don't know.

Money is not a problem. Just kidding. Can't put my finger on it, I think 1000 euro tops. I mean, sure, if at 1100 we get something significantly better, that won't stop us. But I don't want us to go down the rabbit hole, that happens too often :))

Hi again everyone! So I previously asked on the forum about bass and guitar for our band, and now, the time has come - I need some suggestions for vocals. Without getting into too much historic detail, we ended up in our rehearsal room with two Pyrit 15A's. Yeah, probably not the best way to go about vocals, but again, it's an inheritance from an older rig we used. We're a metal band with two vocalists, so we don't exactly sound like a choir of angels and mermaids. Ofc, sound clarity is our goal, but within reasonable limits, we're not planning on spending a fortune on this. Since we're not taking these speakers to gigs (d'oh), so they never see the light of day (or, more appropriately, the stage lights)we don't really see the point of getting anything high-end just for our ears. However, if we can sell the two abovementioned active speakers, which are probably around 550 - 600 euro? used we can chip in some more and try to get something more suitable. We play loud, meaning both these speakers are usually at about 80-90% volume (running through a behringer QX1204 mixer or something like that) but overall they don't throw a big punch, it's not like the vocals easily top the guitar. We can hear the vocals pretty good, but I am aware that these speakers are just not optimal for that. Right? What do you guys use and recommend for vocals? Amplifier + passive speakers? Some other kind of active? Three-way? Monitors? Have you ever tried something that just doesn't work and we should avoid? Thank you in advance, looking forward to any suggestions!

You make it sound like 'cab shaming' is a real thing :D. No worries, I have no desire in impressing others with the size of my gear and anyways, I doubt I'll show it to anyone. Unless they want to come to our private rehearsal room, but then their (auricular) orifices might hurt, and I ceartinly don't want to force anyone to go through such pains. Slightly besides the point, but yeah, we're not trying to build a rig that turns a palm muted D to a cosmic rupture that spits out the very bowels of existence, separating spirit from body - even though that would be nice, we're just slowly getting better gear. I have seen many 210 + 115 combinations, and it's definitely not out of the question that I may end up with a similar gear. But getting them one-by-one. Even if I get a bigger cab for rehearsals... I wouldn't be able to carry it at gigs, therefore I'm not very interested in investing in gear that only me and my bandmates would hear. Maybe that will change if we get a van or travel with two cars. But for now, lightweight is key.

Hi Rob, Yeah, I can tell these cabs are yet to be widely tested, since there aren't too many reviews and opinions on them. Now I don't change gear that often tbh, quite the contrary. So I don't really want to get a used cab, because - honestly - if I don't instantly like it, I'll just return it. I just want to enjoy the sound from the first moment I plug it in. But more than that, I want the gear to help the whole sound of the band, rather than just satisfy my tastes. I've had some gear which I thought 'it will take some time until I get used to it' but that never happened. So I want to take full advantage of the return options large stores like Thomann offer. Now I've only played on a 103 Markbass a long time ago (combo, don't know which model), and if what you said is true - that they probably don't deviate much from their sound with the new models - then, what can I say, I'll most likely be happy with it, because that sound stuck with me enough in order for me to get a MB LMT800 years later. Regarding defects, well I just hope that won't happen anytime soon.

Hello everyone, A while ago I was asking for suggestions on a cab for a Markbass LMT 800 - some of you may remember the topic, thanks for everyone sharing their opinions there. I have recently decided to go for a Markbass 102 58R cab. There are little to no reviews on these, apart from the specifications on the Markbass website. I'm looking forward to some opinions specifically on these models - has anyone tried them? Is there a significant difference between the Traveler and these? Which of these would you chose for metal / prog metal? I'm inclined to believe their names were given to help buyers, and therefore I can only assume that the Energy model might be slightly more suitable. How about the XL versions? I need the smallest size possible, so I wouldn't go for the XL versions, but I wonder if the tone difference is significant and if the compromise is worth it. I'm going to use it for rehearsals and live monitoring - I assume the volume will suffice (while we play loud, we only have one guitar in the band, so I think a single cab should do the trick). I don't know, maybe I'll even mic it up at gigs to see if there's a significant improvement compared to going line-out (as I do now) in the mixer. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated, thanks!

Hello, Our band's mesa dual rectifier amp has a broken rectifier lamp. Is it safe for us to remove the lamp and use the amp on diode tracking? Thank you!

Awesome. Things getting clearer now. Thank you!

Good info, thank you! I wonder if you've heard/witnessed a direct comparison. Because yes, in theory, I agree. But I wonder if the difference between these two options is significant. How significant? Do the pros beat the cons? Historically I get why this was practiced large-scale, does it still apply with modern amps to the same degree? I THINK the advantages of line out would be tone consistency, fewer risks of failure (I guess we've all been to that show where the guitar(s) are undiscernible), less artefacts (other sounds the mic gets) and lightweight travel. Of course, all these 'functional' aspects of fewer risks and travelling light are secondary to the main thing - having a good sound. So yeah, if we're talking about a difference in terms of thin, bad sounding guitar (line out) vs heavy, well-defined sound (mic'd up) then I already know who the winner is.

Traveling light is a concern indeed. Taking the amp head with us is the 'light' version, not an issue. Carrying the cab is what we're trying to avoid. Yes, we're also working towards getting the PA do the heavy lifting. But again, even if we get the cab with us, we're still going in the PA (output or mic). I think we've had just one show where the guitar wasn't connected to the PA (just guitar cab). I found it somewhat strange since I haven't seen too many bands performing like that. Honestly, can't remember any particular one. I suppose that having just the amp/cab on stage without PA must feel strange for the audience, due to how heavily directional the sound is, and I can't imagine how it would sound good and balanced for people sitting left/right of the stage. We have our own songs. No, we don't have our own PA. We're a metal band playing pubs/indoor venues, with occasional festival/outdoor shows. We're playing small/medium venues. So we don't play in amphitheaters or anything large like that.

Thanks for the answers so far! Since we already have high power amps for both bass and guitar it's unlikely we'll add processors to our collection any time soon so I don't think it is an option. Same situation with a pre-amp. It's expensive. We had to get the whole amp because we need it for rehearsals as well. We're just exploring options of avoiding having to carry the cab. I'm not sure I understand what do you mean by a simple DI, we would be using the pre-amp section, right? I mean, even when the whole amp is used as intended, when it comes to live shows, it's only used as monitor. So when using the full amplifier, there's not much to gain for FOH (right?), it's just an extra monitor on the stage. But the core of the tone comes from the preamp... doesn't it? I use the same method with a Markbass LMT 800. I use the line output for live situations and it sounds great, so far - and I can use it for rehearsals as well. That's what we're trying to achieve with the guitar as well. One more thing - if there's a suitable cab on stage we can use, we'll use it. But we probably won't mic it. Or, if we do, then I certainly want to hear a comparison between the mic'd up cab and the output from the slave out. I expect slave out to be better sounding (I'll just avoid mentioning mic model and placement influence on the tone, and potential disasters when relying on the venue for this stuff :)) ). By all means, correct me if I'm wrong, I'm trying to figure stuff out. That sounds nasty. And discouraging. When they say 'it turns power to heat' I was thinking something subtle. So basically for this 100W monster we can't just 'toy around' with some lower-end load boxes. Damn.

Hello, Not sure if this should be in the amps section or 'other instruments' (since I'm referring to a guitar amp). My bandmate recently acquired a Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier and I'm looking for some load box recommendations. We only wanna use the Slave Out / To Power Amp output. Our goal is to be able to travel to gigs without cabinets, and therefore use this output. I've never used this strange kind of alien device before and I've just started researching, and some opinions and info would be very welcome. 1). I see various types of load boxes, with IRs, all kinds of settings and whatnot but I can't seem to find a simple load box, just to simulate the load, so that the amp doesn't BOOM. Are there no simple load boxes so I can just turn on the amp without the cabinet connected? Load boxes without output, for example? 2). If we would eventually use such a load box, would it sound better than the 'Slave Out' output from the amp? I guess that in theory they should, but has anyone actually compared an amp line out with a DI box? 3). These load boxes seem to offer quite a lot of convenience (not carrying a cabinet to gigs), yet I don't recall seeing a single band using them. Are they a not-so-great idea? P.S. I'll play on the amp as well on various songs hence my interest on finding the best available solution. Thanks!

Mic'ing handled by the venue/festival organizer. Mostly it's kick and a couple of overheads as you said. Maybe I'll try sending an e-mail as you and @garyt suggested.

I don't necessarily need to take the cab at every gig, depends on the venue. And as you said, yeah - inevitably surprises can show up. Sorry, what do you mean by what's the drummer doing? :)) Drumming. And telling jokes. And yes - many of the bands we play with are fully digital + IEM. Some bring their own mixer (wireless) and just plug a stereo output in the PA mixer. Minimal adjustment needed on the venue's side. Yes, that's what I want to achieve, better monitoring both at rehearsals and live gigs. Capturing the sound from the cabinet (which I don't yet have) with a microphone is not something I plan to do, unless done properly (with a good mic and someone who knows what they're doing). I've seen angled speaker stands by Markbass, not expensive, probably I should consider one right from the start... Since I received many Barefaced SuperTwin recommendations, I have to ask, what about this one? https://barefacedaudio.com/collections/10cr-bass-cabs/products/two_10?variant=44166229983512 . It's closer to my price range, and I see it has switchable impedance. I do however have some trouble understanding whether it's in danger of blowing up with my amp or not. Website says 500 W. My amp outputs 500 W at 8 ohm, but 800W at 4 ohm. So since the cab has switchable impedance, I'm not sure how to interpret the specs. (By the way, it says 500W here https://barefacedaudio.com/collections/10cr-bass-cabs but on the page with the amp details, it says 800W RMS.) Also looking as advised into used ones, but...again, shipping might be a problem at this size, can't find anything nearby.

Correct. At the moment I go line out to mixer, and then to PA. Both live and at rehearsals. No cab. Only played about two shows with this setup, and as monitors I just used the venue's stage monitors.

Wow, okay, fair enough, I haven't thought of that. I've just recently switched to 5 strings, it's not even a month since, so yeah there's plenty of stuff I haven't considered. Very good point indeed... Hmmm okay, so you're saying that just a simple guitar>amp>cab (FRFR) might be enough. I just have the bass (Schecter Omen Extreme-5) and the MB Tube 800 amp for now. I currently just output to mixer and then to PA (2 x Pyrit 15A). So it's supposed to be a somewhat flat signal chain after the amp, I guess (correct me if I'm wrong). I like the tone of the bass when I play alone. So I guess that if this setup outputs an 'uncolored' tone, then yeah, it's pretty cool. With the band, however, even with the PA's cranked up, I can hardly distinguish what's going on. There's a lot of muddiness especially low end wise.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions so far! @fretmeister @chris_b @Downunderwonder @Ed_S a lot of votes I see towards BF cabs. @Downunderwonder Yes, I'm from Romania, and indeed haven't seen this brand here. Haven't particularly searched for it either. Hartke are highly popular and I think the vast majority when searching for used gear. Haven't looked on Ebay but I imagine shipping might be a problem. But why do say 'budget dictates used' ? Do you mean that at this budget there are no "good" cabs, and if I want decent results I should get used? I'm just asking because there are probably over 50 models on Thomann alone. Regarding currency, it's just indicative. @Dan Dare Yes, I meant 'amp' instead of cab in those phrasings. To clarify my enquiry - I am asking for opinions as a starting point, and I'm highly interested in first-hand experience: what have others tried (in these parameters, for this usage, for the genre I mentioned) and who was happy and who wasn't. I'm also trying to make sure I don't buy one that will bottleneck my amp. Also, unfortunately, there are no shops with cabs in proximity and I haven't really considered travelling for this purpose. Fortunately, we can talk and share experience so I don't have to buy whatever the local shop in the town has @Phil Starr I haven't considered a FRFR. I believe those are intended for those who need a highly versatile sound for multiple bands (as you said) or for those who want to customize their sound, and are highly experimental and exploratory in nature (am I wrong?). But I just plug in to my amp and I don't plan to get too many pedals - so, I think that on the contrary, I need something that is colored, and offers me an 'out-of-the-box' type solution. I am aware that there are probably a ton of good choices and I'm just trying to pin down some of them. I imagine you're playing with a processor / modeler? Does a FRFR behave well in a simple, minimal setup? @Ed_S Very interesting. So you're saying that nearly objectively (I know, it's a forbidden word) Barefaced sounded clearer than MB, in a somewhat direct comparison ? You're using it for metal as well, do I understand correctly?