Duckyincarnate

On 12/01/2023 at 18:07, Beedster said:

 

Not sure I suggested you spend any money mate!

 

A more percussive sound doesn't mean playing slap/pop either, I found my early percussive style organically when I switched from steels to guts; I often used my right hand to mute between notes to keep the rhythm tight - essentially using the fingertips to push back down on the string I'd just plucked usually on the off beat. Using high action and steels this was a pretty quiet process, but when I switched to slacker and lower guts I found I was pushing the string onto the fingerboard, causing a percussive slap tone on the off beat (one AND two AND three etc). We didn't have a drummer - although the guitarist used a stomp box usually on the on/three - and the guys in the band quite liked the two together it so i worked on getting it a bit tighter and it works quite nicely without ever being slap technique per se).

 

Personally while I'm impressed by slap, I don't especially like hearing it, even when it's as well played as Nicolas Dubouchet 

 

 

This sort of playing feels like putting the cart before the horse, tbh... Impressive slappage but his time is atrocious here.

I would add to this that if you have the opportunity to learn how to use a bow from your teacher, it will serve you very well and ultimately speed up your learning a lot.

It is helpful as a learning tool, because it forces you to have a good position in relation to the bass, and it really shines a spotlight on your intonation and forces you to relax and use just the necessary muscles. 

But it will also be an incredibly useful skill if you would like to play pop, folk or bluegrass. It is probably least useful in jazz and blues, though there are plenty of examples of players who make good use of it there too. 

4 minutes ago, Rayman said:

I’m pretty handy, and not afraid of repairs, but I’m used to electric basses. This is a whole other thing. What I don’t want to do is buy a piece of junk. I mean it’s only £300……… but it’s 300 quid I can’t afford to throw away. It’s way too far North to take my mate, I’d have to tie it in with work, but it’s a hell of a long way from Manchester.

With that in mind, I think you should keep saving, keep your eyes peeled here and post a wanted ad, tell your DB-playing friend and any other double bass players you meet that you are looking for a starter instrument. It's very possible to find a solid starter bass for say £800 that will serve you well for years to come. 

8 minutes ago, Rayman said:

I did wonder what that flattened area was low down (high register) under the D and G strings?

I think someone did it to make slapping easier. But god only knows!

2 minutes ago, Rayman said:

I do know one actually, but I saw this thing pop up and thought, it's maybe worth a punt as something to start on?? I don't know.... I have no idea of it's origins

 

I'm looking for a Stentor 1950 primarily, but at 300 quid, I thought that this might do for now

I mean, it looks east European and from the earlier part of the 20th century, with serious splits in the top and back. Possibly a crack under the bridge, horrendous set up and a weird butchered fingerboard. A crude example that you wouldn't really be able to have fixed or set up.

That might be just about serviceable for thumping along to rockabilly, but I don't think any repair shop would touch that with a ten foot pole. 

IMHO, better to save up and buy a decent second hand plywood bass that keeps its value and can be used to learn the instrument properly.

Do you know any double bass players who can help you search for a suitable starter bass?

The key thing to remember is, double basses are complex things and a LOT of things can go wrong with them, and these things are often expensive to fix. Generally, I'd say £1000 is about the norm for a healthy second hand starter bass. Cheaper deals can be found but you need some know-how of double basses to navigate potential duds or basket cases. 

Lovely - I played one of these at Paul's house in 2019. Big sound! I ended up with his Soloist basses instead, due to me being a short-arse. 

Laurence Dixon knows how to get the best out of these basses, too. 

I have a Stentor Conservatoire and it was my first bass. I had it for about 11 years before I bought a new instrument, in my case a Paul Bryant. I think I should have upgraded sooner. The Bryant is much, much nicer to play arco, and as a pizzicato bass it has a more balanced sound, it's louder, and it has a singing quality to the notes that the Stentor lacks. It is a much more musical instrument. 

But I kept hold of the Stentor. Why? Because it is a really solid gigging instrument, and when I do bar, restaurant or pub gigs with little space or unpredictable patrons, or when I have to play outside, I am glad to have a bass that is not my pride and joy. It is worth more to me for these reasons than the £800 or so I'd get in the second hand market for it. 

Both of my basses have been set up identically by Laurence Dixon, and this should be your first port of call. A good setup makes all the difference. And yes, those Hungarian basses that Laurence sells are very possibly the best value you're going to find around the £5k mark. Hassle free, really impressive sound, set up to perfection. 

I don't have any recommendations but in your shoes I probably wouldn't skimp on them. I needed a new endpin a few years ago and went for a nice brass Ulsa unit and I'm so glad I did. These Rubners look alright, don't they?

Best one I ever got was as I was wheeling my bass down the road on its Bass Buggy:

"Nice phone mate, from the 90s innit".

You're not getting much interest but this is a stone cold bargain! If I had to guess, I'd say that's a Dörfler which go for about £300 new. 

(I already have too many bows but GLWTS)

On 24/06/2020 at 14:34, Burns-bass said:

I've got one of those, but i still found it to be really loud. My Bryant is currently languishing in my loft (covered0 after a seam split. I'll bring it out again when i can get to see someone who can work on it.

I'm using an MK bass at the moment, which is lovely, perhaps I'll give it a go later - if I don't melt first!

I will be saying a prayer for your Bryant in the loft given some of the hot days we have been having....

On 19/06/2020 at 14:19, Burns-bass said:

I'd love to be able to practice with a bow, but much of my practice is done when the kids are in bed so it's unlikely. I'll get there.

The rubber Ultra practice mute is actually quite effective when used for arco playing, less so for pizzicato. 

Play mostly arco.

I think this is something that would be best addressed by in-person lessons (pandemic permitting). Lots of women play double bass. I have have been taught by two female teachers in the past, and they had no problems at all playing a 3/4 sized instrument. One was average height, and one was very short, probably about 5 foot tall.  

Some good points have been made above. I would add the following:

1. Your hands get used to the stretch over time and you will be surprised, if playing with good technique, of how well your hands adapt to the full tone they cover in half position (in Simandl terms).

2. The strength in your arms, shoulders and back takes a few months to build up. This too will help.

3. The set-up of your instrument is key. A teacher or luthier can advise on this. It makes a huge difference. 

4. Get a teacher, if only for a handful of lessons (once lockdown is over) - this instrument requires some formal instruction in the early stages. Some do without, but the easiest, quickest and most effective way is to have someone observe you and give you real-time pointers. 

28 minutes ago, TheRev said:

I reckon theyre old style, slug-end Innovations. When Innovation switched to ball ends  they also changed the silk colours which is why your colours don't appear in the string ID chart.

I think the solid blue silks are Innovation Honeys and the blue/yellow/blue is an Innovation Braided.

I agree. Considering the lifespan of Innovation Honeys, they look ready for retirement. But hey, YMMV.

Ah, didn't realise you were in India. In that case, it sounds like a good option for you. 

1 hour ago, Shashank Das said:

Marc S : i really need something to travel with, i have a full size bass already, that's why i'm thinking of this.

 

TPJ: i like chadwicks, my friend has one, which i've played a lot, but i don't think they're available anymore, also it is about 1000$ more expensive than this bass and  there's the constant struggle of removing and putting back the neck

Have you taken into account the (very substantial) import duty and VAT you would likely have to pay on this instrument if you are buying from Australia? It might even things out with other travel basses. I have no experience with the instrument in question. 

It might be worth hanging fire on a travel bass purchase and waiting to see what pops up on the second hand market in weeks/months to come. No one is travelling at the moment and I could envisage people freeing up some of their money in basses that are not being used much. No hurry, right?

Those basses rockabillies stand on are heavily reinforced, to the point where the acoustic sound is significantly compromised. They fall somewhere between a musical instrument and a stage prop. 

12 hours ago, Thomaswest said:

Are these still available?

On 06/03/2020 at 22:59, Jezyorkshire said:

Sold

If you need a stand, the Hercules stand is really the only one I would recommend. Very stable and user friendly. 

I am in the same boat as you, OP. I adapted by packing up the bass by laying the cover on the floor, sliding the bass in and zipping up like that. After a while it becomes second nature. No need to throw money at it, IMHO. 

Nice write-up. I do think you are probably a bit too optimistic about the longevity of real gut strings - count on getting about one or two years out of them before they start to false. Three if you're lucky. Also, they can break a lot more easily if used for slapping. Great sound though. 

So, you are learning a new instrument and you are learning a new genre. Why not separate these things for a little while? Start the new band using bass guitar, and aim to phase it out and replace it with the DB/EUB by say, July. Each rehearsal, you can play a tune or two on the EUB, gradually increasing its use.

In the meantime, your big challenge is to get the left hand together on double bass. This is not easy - you are building finger routine and muscle strength, honing your intonation and developing a consistent relationship to the instrument. Simandl is a great method. Explore it with a teacher in regular lessons, and if at all possible, using a bow. This is the quickest way - with the bow, there is no hiding, it's like a spotlight on your intonation and the shape of your left hand. Any imperfections are mercilessly exposed, and it will force you to adapt and perfect your left hand technique. IME, the hard way is ultimately the quickest and most effective. 

The Latin Bass Book by Oskar Stagnaro is a great resource for learning about Afro-Cuban and Brazilian bass playing.