jbn4001

For sale:

Pair of Bergantino 1x12 bass cabinets

Selling as a pair only.

£400 for the pair

Collection only.

I'm based near Basildon, Essex.

See below for specifications.

The HT112ER has a tweeter with adjustable volume dial at  the back.

The EX112XR is the same cab but without the tweeter.

Both have been gigged occasionally over several years (6-8 gigs a year) in jazz and fusion groups with upright and electric bass.  They've never been pushed hard and I would say they sound as great as the day I bought them.

There is some cosmetic wear on some parts of the carpet-like material and on the corner feet but otherwise in good condition.

Owned since new, I bought them from Bass Direct in Warwick.  They each come with official Bergantino padded covers.

I think these were amongst the clearest sounding cabs on the market at the time, with a price to boot.  To get the equivalent Bergantino speakers now would cost between £1000-1200 per cab (from a quick check on the Bass Direct site).

Feel free to ask any questions, I'll answer as best I can

Specifications

 HT112ER

•1 x 12" cast frame woofer w/ 80oz. magnet, vented pole piece

•high intelligibility 1" tweeter

•power handling - 350 watts rms

•custom phase - coherent crossover with tweeter level control

•frequency response: 40hz - 18khz

•sensitivity: 98.5db • anechoic: 2.83v/1m

•2 x 1/4" and 2 x neutrik connectors

•impedance: 8 ohms

•dimensions: 15 3/4"H x 18-1/2"W x 15"D

•40cm x 47cm x 38cm

•weight: 39lbs/17.7Kgs

•This cab works well with high power amplifiers from 300 - 500w at 8Ω

EX112XR: 

•1 x 12" cast frame woofer w/ 80oz. magnet, vented pole piece

•power handling - 350 watts rms

•sensitivity: 98.5db • anechoic: 2.83v/1m

•frequency response: 40hz - 4khz

•2 x 1/4" and 2 x neutrik connectors

•impedance: 8 ohms

•dimensions: 15 3/4"H x 18-1/2"W x 15"D

•40cm x 47cm x 38cm

•weight: 36lbs/16.3Kgs

•This cab works well with high power amplifiers from 300 - 500w at 8Ω

What makes a bad bass player?

Let's discount playing proficiency: time keeping, cleanly fretted notes etc.. (discounting these things as otherwise further discussion is moot..if you can't keep time or make clear sounds..you can't really play music with other people)

After that.. what is there to discuss without context? Jaco in U2 wouldn't work (at least from what I've heard) , nor Adam Clayton in a jazz quintet. I think beyond basic proficiency on the instrument, it is then all about the music, and you on your chosen instrument as a musician.

Are you a bad/average/good musician in the context of the group you're playing in?  Different styles of music require different skills.  If you can't handle the particular style for a given group.. in that context, you're not a good player..but you might be fine in another band.

I love players and sounds in their context..and re "sum of their parts" ..U2 and Pink Floyd bass parts ..are perfect.  BTW my fave rock bass player is Geddy Lee.

FWIW - the musicians I admire the most are session musos that can play..anything.  Surely that is the greatest discipline of all .. to be proficient in so many styles.  I don't discount the greats in whatever genre mind. 

IDK..to me this isn't a healthy discussion..yet I had to chime in (  ) .. As musicians (amateur or pro), we should just ask ourselves what our goals are, meet them if we can, and enjoy ourselves along the way.

I guess it comes down to several factors such as musical ability of individuals in the band, and how well the band gels together (good communication).   I've been in a band where the singer was a good musician with great time feel and expression.  Before the next song, she'd always pause for a moment to get the feel and then count in the tune..and invariably it was always the right tempo (and pretty consistent across rehearsals and gigs).

I've been in a band without a drummer. In that band, for many tracks, we made a note of our preferred tempo and the keyboard player would key it in on a metronome and count us in.  

Both methods worked well.

I've also been in a band where we often finished a tune at twice the tempo that we started at.  I blamed the drummer for that!  Though generally, I am a believer in tempo being everyone's responsibility in a group. 

Well done all. I really must have a go myself sometime. Some very good recordings and compositions .

[quote name='jbn4001' timestamp='1450293264' post='2931475']
My favourites are:
Slade - Merry Christmas everybody : fantastic melody and words. Very uplifting. Lovely guitar tone. Great bass line..
Paul McCartney : Simply having a wonderful Christmas time.. Again, incredibly uplifting.. and I love analogue synths .. and this has great synth.. I think a Yamaha Synclavier

I couldn't really give a stuff about any others. Those two stand out from my childhood and still make me feel happy at this time of year. Gonna go listen to them now,.
[/quote]

Actually - McCartney track was a Yamaha CS80, as used to great effect by Vangelis for Blade Runner soundtrack
[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0QpG2Z54QI"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0QpG2Z54QI[/url]

My favourites are:
Slade - Merry Christmas everybody : fantastic melody and words. Very uplifting. Lovely guitar tone. Great bass line..
Paul McCartney : Simply having a wonderful Christmas time.. Again, incredibly uplifting.. and I love analogue synths .. and this has great synth.. I think a Yamaha Synclavier

I couldn't really give a stuff about any others. Those two stand out from my childhood and still make me feel happy at this time of year. Gonna go listen to them now,.

Hey - not too bad at all; I agree with comment on string noise, and a little too rubato here and there imho - but otherwise lovely playing overall.

On another note --- I checked your other Sound cloud stuff. .. Is Sun & Air an original composition? It's lovely and i can't find it anywhere else. Bill Evans-esque and sublime. .

[quote name='bassace' timestamp='1343660901' post='1753271']
Is this question posed in the context of running the mic to backline? If this is the case then feedback will generally follow whatever the quality of the mic and its amplification chain. But if you run the mic to front of house and not have monitors too close it will work very well. Only trouble is the audience will enjoy the great double bass sound but you won't! You will have to run a pickup to backline to hear yourself.
[/quote]

Reviving this old thread --- I'm just researching using mic in a live situation on double bass. I have both a DPA4099 and Headway EDB2.. and also a KK Bassmax pickup and Platinum Pro.

I have a question directly on the above quote: how come putting mic signal through FOH and pickup only through monitor reduces likelihood of feedback? Surely the mic will still "hear" the monitor which is producing the sound from the pickup - which ought to be similar to the sound the mic is picking up ..and thus feedback? A lot of people seem to do this so the approach obviously has merit. I just want to understand why!

Incidentally, my situ is I'll be playing in a jazz duo - hollowbody guitar + double bass in a fairly big restaurant/bar next week. We plan on using our own amps.. taking the output into the house PA which has speakers dotted around the venue.

Hi to all in this thread. Somewhat late response - apologies for that. Just wanted to say thanks all for your detailed responses. Very helpful advice that I can keep in mind for next time I record with a group.

[quote name='ubassman' timestamp='1389821241' post='2338388']
You might try also posting this in the recording forum - there are plenty really knowledgable techie types in there !
[/quote]

Thanks for advice. I've posted there and edited the original post in the db forum

Hi there,
I have had a dpa4099b for about 4 months. I've not gigged in a while so haven't used it that much. I also have a Headway EDB2 pre amp to go with the mic.

I recorded a demo in a jazz quartet at the weekend (drums, double bass, trumpet, guitar). We recorded live in one room , albeit in to 8 mics and channels (1 ambient room mic, 4 mics on drums, bass, guitar, trumpet). We were set fairly well apart as the room was large. I was partitioned off with half height boards and bits of padding.

The problem: A lot of "bleed" or "spill" of all the other instruments in to the dpa mic. So the bass sounds fantastic on the recording, but the cymbals and the trumpet in particular bleed in to the mic which results in too much ambience in the recording - it sounds like the trumpet is playing far away in a bathroom!

Short of playing alone in an isolated room, how can I avoid this excessive bleed? I'd like to use the mic at gigs as well as recording, but am now unsure how viable that is given the above experience.

I've now posted this in the Recording forum here:[url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/227150-dpa-4099b-mic-on-double-bass-problems-seeking-advice/"]http://basschat.co.uk/topic/227150-dpa-4099b-mic-on-double-bass-problems-seeking-advice/[/url]

[quote name='winterfire666' timestamp='1384449533' post='2276882']
its played on a bass?
[/quote]

^^ Tongue in cheek but surely this? That and context - what sort of tune and dynamics is the bass solo in?

There are a lot of negative comments on this thread, I guess with some justification as there are a lot of ..not great.. bass solos out there. Why is that? My theory is because many bass players are not accustomed to playing melodies so when they try a solo.. it often sounds like a slightly modified bass line, or much worse, they feel compelled to play tonnes of notes in the hope that it compensates for the lack of melody (it usually doesn't).

Good bass solos do exist.. and they sound good because in themselves they are likely melodic and make good use of rhythm.. and have accompaniment that is sympathetic to what is being played. ... like a solo on any other instrument. I sometimes think it is more difficult to solo on four strings because to move across large intervals you need to move up and down the neck a lot and that a guitarist has at least two octaves available without moving up or down the neck.

Examples:
I like the solo on [b]Clockmaker by The Impossible Gentlemen[/b] (modern jazz)

..I'd forgotten about [b]Radio Ga Ga by Queen [/b]and heard it on the radio the other day. Check the last minute or so of the tune going to fade out. That's an electric bass solo in pop song IMHO - and it sounds great. John Deacon had a fantastic grasp of melody, harmony and rhythm.. one of the best pop/rock bass players ever IMHO.

Hi,
caveat: I'm not an expert, however I've been taking regular lessons for two years including bowing.

Things that affect tone massively:

- the amount of "arm weight" you apply to the bow.
.. this should be a "natural" arm weight - let your whole arm weight rest (relax) in to the bow via your hand. Do not "press" or push the bow in to the string, otherwise it sounds stiff/tense

- not bowing perpendicular to the string for the entire length of the note.
- not applying the string fully to the neck with your left hand.

I used to do all three at once and it sounded terrible! If I'm learning a new piece or exercise, I am still prone to doing at least one of the above and have to remind myself and put myself in to a good, relaxed frame of mind to apply all 3 bits of advice correctly.

I'm not sure what techniques would be involved in viola or cello and thus may be showing grandma how to suck eggs.. :/

Re the unintended harmonics, I think they could be one or both of arm weight to bow and not applying string fully to neck as I used to get this all the time when I first started learning to use bow.

HTH

+1 Exactly what I did.
After that, I rented one for £30 a month from Thwaites (a bit far from Huddersfield admittedly, but perhaps there are shops that do rentals not too far from you too. Incidentally, Thwaites is a 90min drive from me. It was worth it though as I was able to try out db to see if I was going to like it without a big outlay).

[quote name='AndyBass' timestamp='1381778510' post='2243694']
When I wanted to try one out I booked a lesson with a local teacher. I figured that way I'd get to have a go, but also learn some of the (very) basics right from the off. There's plenty of teachers in Sheffield if you're ever round this way, don't know about Huddersfield I'm afraid.
[/quote]

Hi . I fit my double bass, 12" cab, amp, electric bass and one passenger in a Ford Ka!

+1 for Thomas martin in your budget range. I had a martin made for me last year and I adore playing it. I think you'd be hard pressed to find same or better quality at the prices martin offer.

I know what people mean by losing excitement/dynamics. However, I partly damaged my hearing - I got something called hyperacusis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperacusis

.. so i have intolerance to high frequencies amongst other things. This was because I exposed myself to ridiculously loud volume for too long in one stretch. If I could turn back the clock, I would've happily worn ear plugs at loud gigs and practises so that I could experience listening to high end detail now. Instead, I have to turn treble down to 0 on mp3 players, headphones, speakers, otherwise I get headaches.


Bottom line: wear ear protection otherwise you may never be able to experience dynamics and exciting music because you'll have damaged your hearing.

These days.. I play in much quieter bands and carry ER25 earplugs with me at all times in case I encounter any continuous loud noise.

I found Musicman Stingray 5er to be narrow string spacing (17.5mm I think) , as are some models of Ibanez 5ers.

[quote name='seashell' timestamp='1355267856' post='1896276']
Three pages of love for the Quo! I really didn't think it would go on this long...I'm dead impressed!
[/quote]

Well.. these days I'm learning jazz and classical music on double bass.. but in my teenage years (early 90s) .. though deeply unfashionable, I discovered quo through a neighbour who gave me his Piledriver and On The level.. and Genesis Trick of the tail LPs (talk about opposites). I came to deeply love both of them! That early stuff is killer! I adore the Piledriver album, [mistakes] warts'n'all. Seeing this early footage in the thread is rekindling my interest and causing me to look at ebay for the classic line up tix. But... would it be a disappointment? Never seen'em live. They ain't getting any younger.

IMHO, Quo were good fun, and rocked out with the best of them in the 70s. Thereafter.. lets draw a veil. Otherwise, hats off to a British group that were all about being a good time guitar band. Three chords and the truth.

Hi. Just donated. I'm not a frequent poster, but I do love this site. If funds are tight for the site - if you love this place - I'd say donate a few quid, everyone!

Cheers.

jbn4001

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1351871936' post='1856473']
I can't do the sitting down thing at all with a double bass. It feels completely unnatural.
[/quote]

I had great trouble balancing the bass stood up when first learning and so now play seated most of the time. The funny thing is that since playing seated for some time.. I find that I can now play standing up just fine (except for arco).

[quote name='philparker' timestamp='1351787799' post='1855431']
I maybe the least qualified to comment on this as I have only been playing DB for one month, but as a beginner I may be able to share different experiences?!

I didn't really intend to play with a bow, but listening to sage advice from BC forumites and others I thought it might be worth while. I managed to locate a tutor a week or so before I collected my DB and arrange an initial lesson (on the day of collection) and subsequent lessons. It just so happens my tutor is from an orchestral background and even though I highlighted my future plans (jazz, folk, MOTR & majority pizz) all my lessons and tutoring will be a majority of arco until I am at a decent level. I have played fretless for many years and appreciate 'intonation by ear' and watching all the DB vids I have, I've been impressed with the seamless intonation and muscle memory of the players.

I've been studying scales and arpeggios from an ABRSM book as well as Yorke Studies & Kieth Hartley solos - all in a progressive structure and 90% arco. I've been pleased with my progress and consistency of intonation, especially when moving up to position 3 (I haven't started the thumb position yet!) and looking back over the last month I think my progression has been very much helped by the structure ive adopted and the 20+ mins of scales very day - something I would be reluctant to do on guitar or bass.

Luckily I've got the time to practise and I intend/determined to be a good player and don't mind putting in the hard, tedious work in now if its going to get me quicker to the point of competence.
[/quote]

+1

I've been taking lessons from a pro orchestral player for nearly two years.. initially pizz but now 95% of my lessons are with the bow . My intonation has improved massively. Would echo the thoughts of others on this thread .. Simandl.. scales, practise, muscle memory have got me to a level that I couldn't have imagined when I first picked up DB two yrs back after 20 yrs of electric fretted bass playing. Also, my teacher recommended I buy a full length mirror to use as reference to check posture.. arm not sagging down etc.

My teacher is a great motivator and I always look forward to my lessons. I think this helps me do my "homework" - doing all that practise - which has resulted in me having reasonable intonation.


Short answer: Simandl + Good teacher + consistent practise = improved intonation across the neck. For me anyway.

I've never heard of a venue asking for this. Sounds dodgy to me on a couple of counts

a) is this just pay to play in disguise (you won't get your deposit back?)
what kind of venue is this or who they think you are to expect things to get damaged???

If it were me.. I'd avoid and move on. But that's just me.

[quote name='Voodoosnake' timestamp='1344073377' post='1759354']
Spot on. Throw away the rule books!!
[/quote]

This. I'm not an effects guy myself these days (I seem to be getting more and more "old school", playing double bass in jazz groups these days!) - but I'm not averse to listening to tunes featuring effects-laden bass. Whatever floats [i]your [/i]boat, whatever fits the band, whatever fits the song. When I was younger (and perhaps still), I've been guilty of being too busy, too loud, or using effects that don't fit the song. It's all a learning curve and ultimately it is art - and art is entirely subjective. If you find a bunch of likeminded people who like what you do - go for it!