BigJHW

1 minute ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

You're never going to get a good bass result with pole mounted PA boxes. They lack the boundary reinforcement provided by being close to the floor, they don't get the boundary reinforcement provided by being close to the rear wall, they may even have bass cancellations from the bounce off the wall and off the floor. You need a cab for the low frequencies that can be placed on the floor close to the rear wall, be it a sub or your own bass cab.   

thanks
i'm actually learning a lot about PA cabs now - as its become clear the band leader maybe isn't as clued up as he thought he was or i thought he was before selling off my BF212T (yup... that was a mistake - ah well we live and learn)

1 hour ago, BassmanPaul said:

My first thoughts are: who's doing the mixing? What is he doing to the bass channel? How  are you connecting to the mixer? all these questions are important. If the guy doing the actual mixing is new to the game he could well be cutting bass frequencies for some reason.

 

well.. the guy doing the mixing is 100% clueless about the speaker cabs but can mix a great out front sound usually - it's ME
the mixer i'm fine with Midas MR18 digital desk - and as i'm also the bass player i assure you i'm not cutting anything bass haha - in fact i'm trying to add more
honestly it appear it's the PA cabs
did a gig at the weekend and took a couple of old peavy 15" subs along and BOOM awesome front end sound - punchy bass and kick drum - EVERYTHING was as it should be

i'd not paid attention to what cabs the singer had bought - but he bought super cheap to save on size and weight - and they are NOT suitable to pushing the entire band through (can't remember what they actually are but they're Behringer "cheap" passive cabs... i'm almost certain his old yamaha cabs would have done a better job but would have been heavier and bigger which is what he was trying to avoid.

Looks like i'm gonna grab a cheap Bergantino AE112 - just so i've got something for when we're not using the subs (they don't fit in all our venues)
it's gonna have to be careful with the Eich T900 but i'll never turn it above 1/3 master volume anyway so no where near damaging the cab

I had one of these from Bass Direct
and then sold it back to them for (well traded it back to them) a while back now
LOVED that bass when i had it - just missed my Jazz neck pickup too much to stick with a single P pickup (tis why the BB1025 now - almost best of both worlds)
but WOW what a bass
super lite - great balance - epic tone and the neck was smooth and fast (which i am not)

GLWS

Tech Soundsystems - aren't they what turned in to Tecamp - and now Eich?

didn't realise they were making super lite weight cabs all that time ago.. 23kg for a 4x10 is stunning - and i bet it sounds HUGE

sadly i lack the space to store this or i'd probably have made the 6 hour round trip haha

GLWS

Quite possibly the cab of my dreams (and without a road crew.... nightmares)
But i also dream about having a back strong enough to get that up stairs if i needed too
And a van to cart it around in

they truly sound amazing when cranked !! 

GLWS

6 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

If the desk has a spare Aux channel you can send anything you want to be sub boosted to that and the aux out goes to the sub.

 

It makes mixing a bit more complicated but should only be the kick and bass in most bands.

Oooo i like that

We're using a Midas MR18 if i recall and as we're only using 4 of the 6 Aux Outs for IEM's that IS a possibility ..... i do the mixing mostly anyway so it's only really me that needs to worry about getting the Aux out mix right for a powered sub...
Hmmmm this is something to consider.

@Chienmortbb - Thanks for the idea about the powered subs - saw you message but forgot to reply last night. It's not me that'd be buying it if we get one - PA belongs to the singer - but i'll deffo put the suggestion too him - thanks for that

29 minutes ago, lemmywinks said:

Just get a single powered sub to start with, that's all we use now and we do some pretty big rooms. I also have the full mixer app on a tablet instead of using the simplified monitoring one, partly as a backup in case our big tablet fails and also partly so I can quickly check any weird eq stuff going on with the bass!

 

 

I hadn't considered getting a powered sub as a solution because we use a power amp and passive PA cabs.

As someone who has "zero" clue when it comes to PA's

how would i go about connecting a powered sub to passive PA cabs.. Can i just use the "line Output" from the back of the passive cab? Or will that also take power from the PowerAmp and try to power the already powered sub?

Sorry TOTAL PA noob here

Starting to think just getting a 4x10 and 1x15 to make my bass sound awesome might be the plan haha

HA with regard to the PA - honestly no idea
We are planning on getting in to the studio asap (hard to co-ordinate but we're working on it) to figure out what's going on with the PA

i think the problem is the band lead went cheap with the PA speakers - i can't even tell you what they are

but it is indeed just punching out mids and highs when everything gets going

i was actually quite shocked when i stood out in front of house at the last gig (my cable was long enough i could get out there in the floor and listen - and oddly the venue was very quiet - not idea but served its purpose that night)
solo'd the bass or the kick come through great, punchy bassey and awesome - but when it all happens at once - poof no bass end

we shall have to look in it

but that's for the cab idea  Defo ticks 2/3 boxes (i've looked at these before - they do seem excellent - if not a bit pricey - but i had a BF cab so i understand pricey haha)

i know i know this has come up time and time again but mans gotta ask

So... The band i'm in went "amp-less".. not knowing anything about PA's or what's good not good - i assume the band leader who bought the PA had considered things like "bass response" from the PA he was getting.

He got a power amp, a digital mixer, and a couple of cabs.

Listening to spotify though the PA the bass response was awesome even when cranked to 11 !! but here's where the mistake happened.

Off the back of that (remember i know nowt about PA speakers), i sold my BF212T, i still DI though my Eich T900 cause i like the sound it puts out but i am officially Cab-less now.

We've done a few gigs by this point

sound in my IEM's is amazing

Sound check - this is a strange one as i'm not wireless on the bass BUT.. when i had my BF212 i knew what that sound like out front so when i eq'd/lvl'd the vocals etc in sound check i wasn't worried about the bass not being there because i knew what it was going to sound like live.

several gigs in and for the 1st time someone came up after our 1st set and said "it all sounds amazing BUT you can't hear any bass player"

Concerned i unmute the PA play some bass - it rumbles through the venue - you can DEFO hear the bass - so i'm left confused - assume he's wrong and we start the second set

Still worried i don't put my IEM's back in and.... well he's right
as soon as the full band go through the PA ALL the bass end vanishes and it's 100% mids and highs

Suddenly i realise the speakers aren't good enough standalone to cope with all the frequencies coming from 2 guitars, 4 vocals a drum OH mic, kick drum mic and the bass.

From here we have 2 options - buy a couple of cheap subs to take the low end away from the top cabs and that should solve the problem OR buy a 1x12 and take my bass totally out of the PA and just push through the cab on stage.

Problem is space - in the car on the way to a gig (as we've downsized transport by going cabless so now only take 2 cars instead of 4)
Cost - i need to find the cheapest option there is out there for real life financial reasons
Weight - need to keep it as lightweight as possible for getting in and out of gigs

Size - i'd love to get another 2x12 as the sound from 2 12" woofers is excellent - but i need to keep size down especially looking at some of the venues we're playing in the UK nowadays

So what can we suggest ladies and gents of the low end world?

I've seen a reasonably price Orange OBC112 - but i'd have to buy it blind as can't get there to try it out (Reputable reseller so should be in excellent working order)
but not sure if you can suggest other options before i pull the trigger on the Orange.

Sorry for a long ass post and thanks for reading/your advice.

Big JHW

p.s - don't sell your cab if you go ampless - keep it cause otherwise you'll feel like an idiot !!! (like me)

If i hadn't just sold my bass cab/head (currently band are all going through the PA)......
got any links to your music so i can at least have a listen?
Ta

19 minutes ago, ReeV0 said:

Did you notice much of a volume increase? I've got the Puma 500 and find it fairly quiet

I was running it through a Barefaced 212T and never turned it up above 1/3 volume - and that was LOUD !!
the Puma 500 went though the same cab when i had it - and honestly i was pushing it to more than half volume with the same EQ/Taste settings i use on the 900 - felt it was a little underpowered for my needs (SUPER LOUD DRUMMER - Like the dude hasn't got a volume control) - so upgraded
I believe it's worth it

Running the Eich T900 myself - LOVE this bit of kit. Before i had the T900 i had the Puma T500 (i think it was called) - and that's what made me want the bigger one
Awesome price too

GLWS

I just saw this WOO
Gutted i missed the event - totally going to do my best to go this year.
Glad that Ashdown got used Mr Hamster 

Did it go in a raffle in the end?

Hopefully someone got some use out of it haha

@dombennison - saw your "wanted" add - this might do the trick for you

Schpeel from the EBS website in case that helps people buy it quicker for you 

(shame i'm not after a rig atm - cause this would sound amazing)

EBS NeoLine 212

Configuration 2x 12" + 2"

Frequency Response 40 - 18k Hz*

Sensitivity 103 dB

Power Rating 600 W RMS

Impedance 4 ohms (8 ohms on request)**

Volume 103 liters

Height 61 cm / 24"

Width 58 cm / 23"

Depth 44 cm / 17"

Weight 21.3 kg / 46.9 lbs

 

EBS Reidmar 502

Input Impedance 2 Mohms

Gain Range -00 - +30 dB

Character Filter Shelving, High/Low Pass, +7 dB @ 40 Hz, -2 dB @ 800 Hz,
+3 dB @ 10 kHz

Tone Controls,
Bass Shelving +/-18 dB @ 60 Hz
Mid Bandpass Filter 100 – 6000 Hz +/- 12-15 dB
Treble Shelving +/-18 dB @ 6 kHz
Bright Shelving +15/-0 dB @ 10 kHz

Balanced Output -10 dBv, Pre/Post EQ, GND Lift

Output Power 250 W RMS / 500 W RMS @ 4 and 2 ohms load respectively.

Dimensions (WxDxH) 12.8 x 9.8 x 3.0" (32.5 x 25 x 7.5 cm)

Weight 3.3 kg (7.3 lbs.)

i wish Norwich wasn't so far away...

2 hours ago, Boodang said:

 

Out of interest, and a bit of a variation to the original thread I realise, but have you considered getting a custom 4 made so it exactly matches your GAS (sorry, I meant 'needs')?

I got this done by my local luthier, cheaper than a fender and to my exact needs.... until I want something different. 

 

I have indeed considered this, 4 string p/j with extender - but price wise as i'm not 10000% sure i wanna go that way it was a little more than i intend to spend on a 4 to get the ball rolling
YES it is an element of GAS as it's been a long donkey while since i bought owt bass related - but it also has a solid reason for wanting it - just need to try it and see how it feels (Ooooerrrrr)

1 hour ago, Woodinblack said:

 

Just take a string off and plane the side of the neck down

 

nah i'd rather be nice and buy a 4 string off someone on here that's nice enough sell them on here, rather than my usual trick of taking unwanted gear to bass direct and p/x'ing on something new lol

21 minutes ago, ahpook said:

 

I think folks understand that, you've nothing to be worried about.

 

You keep asking the questions you need answers to - you didn't deserve the chaos this thread turned into.

Thanks

now to just get one of my 5'ers sold off and fund a new 4 string

The whole reason i became a bass player was a chap called David Spicer, he was the bass player in a country Duo my dad was part of.
i went to many gigs and was always stunned and amazed at the sound from the bass and the way it made my ribs shake
Mr Spicer played a Goodfellow bass that as i understand it he built himself in Bernies workshop (this may or may not be accurate it was 28 years ago i heard the story)
since then i've loved the look and sound for any of Bernie's creations

GLWS - whomever picks this up is going to love it
A GB Bass is on my hit list for after i win the lottery

When i made my original post i was really just curious about peoples thoughts on going back to 4 string with an extender over staying on a 5 string

i'm sure people have done that before - what were the pro's / con's to doing it, did they find playing a 4 string easier than a 5'er etc... 

in hindsight i should have expected the post to get a bit "ermmmm well as it has gone" and maybe just done it without asking and found out for myself - but as this is a bass community i was curious on other peoples opinions. 

It started out well with people having opinions it seems.. but has degraded somewhat from page 1 to now.

There was no malicious intent when i made the post - honestly just after thoughts

Admin feel free to close off the topic

i've made my decision to get a 4 string fit an extender and give it a shot see how it feels - all the while keeping my BB1025 in the background just in case 

Right - think i'll end this here.

Ta

Big JHW

2 hours ago, Linus27 said:

37 years of playing here and only ever played 4 string. Now I only play fretless. I did try a 5 string once but my head couldn't get used to an extra string being where the E is. So I'm thinking of taking on a challenge and buying a 5 string fretless as I love the look of the fretless 5 string headless Ibanez make 🤣

Go with the Gary Willis 5 string fretless (also ibanez) - they're about as good as fretless gets without spending silly money imo

i think i've decided - once the 5 string rockbass sells - i'm going to put that 400-450 towards a reasonable 4 string - fit an extender to it for those drop D tunes and give it a whirl see how i get on.

haha oddly enough we downtune 1/2 a step for everything now - don't remember the last time i had a bass in standard tuning.. Singer is getting old and half a step saved his voice on some tracks

mate if my warwick rockbass had sold i'd defo consider this - sadly i need that to go before i can even consider buying anything else (or the wife might kill me in my sleep  -  or awake - or just for fun)
GL with sale - but if the rockbass goes before this does i'll be in touch