The Guitar Weasel

59 minutes ago, Owen said:

Respect

In fairness it's often easier to play stuff fast than slow  

If you try and think about triple and quad slap syncopation rather than 'feel' it ... you will probably foul up. 

Weird shaped bass bodies that look more like random ink blots than instruments. 

Anything short scale except a Hofner Beatle bass ... 

Rickenbacker bass pickups ... love the sound ... would hate the fact they die more often than old Hofner ones ... If part of my living wasn't rewinding guitar and bass pickups  They keep me fed ... so hey. 

EUBs ... work of the devil.

My normal string of choice is the Rotosound 4000 set bumped ... 

But when I had the chance to try out a set of of unused Superior Bassworks Dirty Gut Deluxe strings (normally £75+) for nowt, I simply had to bite. 

So my normal style is pretty frantic rockabilly slapping bordering on psychobilly insanity. My Rotos are great for that amplified - they only need a light touch and they have quite a nice slap (using my Shadow Rockabilly pro preamp). You do have to be a bit careful however, as the very low string tension isn't brilliant for bridge stability - and you can easily hit them a bit hard in the heat of the moment and get a bit of unwanted farting 🙂 

As a matter of fact one of the reasons I rebuilt the old Czech bass that became 'Frankie' the Freankenstein bass ... was because I had this set of Dirty Gut strings to go on it! The strings were in fact worth more than the original purchase price of the headless wreck that became this slick black beauty!

I'd tried green Weedwhackers on my Stentor 3/4 back when I was starting out and they were atrocious. Or at least the E string was ... only capable of a tuneless bloop of indeterminate pitch below A. To me this was absolutely useless ... I might as well have a three string bass! 

Anyway, on to the Superior Bassworks strings. Like Weedwhackers they are nylon with a Kevlar core and to say they are chunky is a serious understatement 

I have to say these strings only just fit through my tuners ... and I do believe that it's pretty common to have to ream out your holes (oooer Missus) to take these chubbers. Naturally the whole string path has to  be widened to accommodate the girth of these hawsers  ... but you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs (or as one famous Shakespearian theatre director once said to me 'you can't make a Hamlet without breaking legs'. 

Now purely on looks these are stunning. Proper old timey and they really set off the looks of a black bass ... though I believe they do them in blood red, which would look even cooler. You get six strings in the pack allowing you to bump the gauges a bit to find what you like. Now other folks milage may vary on this, but I found the thickest 4.3mm 'E' had good pitch all the way down ... even though it felt like a chunk of HMS Victory's rigging in diameter!  However the 4mm used as the E was simply not under enough tension to produce low 'tuned' notes - succumbing to 'bloop' syndrome like Weedwhackers - so personally I wouldn't bother with bumping. The string tension is a la fair bit higher than with my bumped Rotos, leading to a little bit more physicality having to be thrown in to slapping - but the results tone wise are truly lovely to my ears. 

To my mind these sound about as close to old recordings of early rockabilly as I've heard. The main note is big and round and warm, while the slap has more of the 'wood blocks' than the 'metallic snare drum' about it.  The surface 'texturing' of the string gives a very firm grip for triple slaps and drag triplets, and the acoustic volume is good enough to play with other acoustic instruments unamplified, unlike weedwhackers ... or indeed my bumped Rotos - I don't think I have quite the raw speed I do on those, but for more old time rockabilly ... and probably country too these are a keeper for me I think. To be fair I haven't tried them amplified yet, as it's a huge faff to swap over the Shadow kit to another bass. I may have to bite the bullet and just buy another Shadow rig though ... these really make me want to play ... what more can you ask?    

Just now, The Guitar Weasel said:

How banana is it? I had a cheap bridge shatter on me under very light gauge string tension a few weeks ago - so I'm very loath to take any bridge nonsense now ... it's a hell of a lot of pressure it's under, especially if you have steel strings fitted. If the bass was free then coughing up the money needed for an okay replacement bridge for a beater bass will be sub £50 ... just. You might be able to pick up a second hand one rather than attempt to straighten something that may be weakened. If it goes bang it will be spectacular I promise! 

2 hours ago, Owen said:

Deep in my memory banks I actually knew that. However, it was pretty deep in there. Thanks for the tips. 

 

I also need to bring the bridge back from Bannana so will wet it, put it between two pieces of flat board and clamp it hard for a few weeks. I knew that Black and Decker workmate would come in handy eventually.

It's called the 'saddle'

... okay ... clean off all that PVA 'polar bear snot' with warm water and and a cloth ... blurgggggghh = Never get that stuff near a double bass on pain of .... well let's leave it at serious pain.

Isopropyl alcohol will got off any that hot water won't ... then let the area dry thoroughly.

Now go and buy some proper glue if you must use a 'chemical' glue use Titebond SPARINGLY 

Better is Titebond liquid hide glue

You don't need much clamping with hide glue ... probably even get away with taping it down while the glue cures ... the forces once everything is back together will tend to keep the saddle in place even if the glue joint isn't the strongest.

Now go get the person who did that gluing job to write out 100 times on a blackboard ... or an interactive whiteboard as you are at a college

I MUST NOT USE PVA ON MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS  

East London me  

4 minutes ago, DS287 said:

Thanks all. I have taken some legal advice via my insurer and also been in touch with the importer/distributor who has been quite helpful. Hopefully I can get this resolved and my lovely bass fully repaired.

it's such a crap thing to have happen ... hope they can sort your bass pronto 

9 minutes ago, MuddBass said:

BEFORE entering into any further dialogue with G4M, I would encourage you to speak with Citizens Advice https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk regarding the potential to engage in a legal dispute with G4M. Ultimately, they sold you a case that designed to protect your instrument, but seemingly has done the opposite. 

 

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/somethings-gone-wrong-with-a-purchase/claim-compensation-if-an-item-or-product-causes-damage/

 

" If an item causes damage to your property through no fault of your own, you may have a legal right to claim compensation (also known as claiming ‘damages’). "

 

This ... 100%

6 minutes ago, hpc364 said:

Well, about theory I'm classical trained, jazz theory is easier.

Terms are different between the two worlds, sometimes jazzers call tonal what is modal in classical music.

When jazzers talk about harmony they overthink what it's supposed to be simple and it's actually simple.

They sometimes play inversions or substitutions thinking they are genius and overthink them with a lot of esoteric and philosophical feelings. Some don't even understand them and hate them, and want the rhythmic section to work like a karaoke tape.

With classical players, you don't have to explain, they know what's happening.

Since nothing is really written, ears are wild open (in a trio context).

Real bass players : they bow.

 

A you mentioned the B word ... the 'horse's bum hair of brilliance stick' 

I hear bass players took to using it after hearing Jimmi Page playing his Les Paul with one ...  

Welcome ... may the groove be with you! 

Depends what you mean by real 'real' bass player. To me that means providing a groove and a framework that the music hangs on like a dress on a beautiful model. Working with a drummer to weave the underpinnings of something greater than the sum of the parts. To be able on occasion to launch out and play a blistering run, sure ... but to be the rock and the foundation that gives folks a good time when they listen to your band. Bass playing to me is a strange combination of joy and discipline. Utterly intoxicating when you are all in the groove. 

Personally while I listen to the odd bit of Mozart first thing in the morning to calm shattered nerves when I see what's in store for another day in the workshop - that's as far as it goes -  even though my wife was a production manager at the Royal Albert Hall for over ten years, and I had the opportunity to both hear top notch classical music for free - I mostly took a pass on it. It has very little relevance to my experience of music growing up - with my mother a  jazz/dance band pianist and my aunt a 'teddy girl' who played me all her rock and roll and rockabilly singles while she babysat me as a toddler. My experience from my wife's time at the Albert Hall was that while most professional classical musicians are lovely people and hugely dedicated, a great many classical music fans are snobbish bores who see no further than the ends of their noses.  🙂  

16 hours ago, Burns-bass said:

 

I'm not sure what the chip on your shoulder is here, but as I've explained, I have played bass with low tension strings and really like them. I have owned, played, and enjoyed basses with these. My favourites were Golden Slaps. In fact, I'm doing a gig with them on Saturday. I recently played at a festival with gut strings and loved them.

 

The issue here seems to be that I politely suggested that someone new to double bass might benefit from a lesson or two on technique to avoid developing poor habits or hurting themselves.

 

Or, to put it in different terms.

 

You're an expert woodworker and instrument builder, right? If you spotted someone doing something with a drill or an adhesive that could potentially harm them, you'd probably say something. It's literally the same thing.

 

If you're getting the sound you like out of your bass, then good for you. Nobody cares, least of all me. Life is too short for this nonsense. I'm off to get some chips of my own with the kids. 

 

The chip on my shoulder is that the state of private music tuition in this country is appalling. I will explain: for longer than I've been any sort of woodworker or instrument builder - or in fact, what I do say to day now - owner of a pickup winding company - I've taught music. I've always been foremost a musician - but to supplement that income I had a music shop in the 80s/90s and after that worked at a local FE college where my role required I become a qualified teacher. This opened my eyes to the fact that a great many people teaching instruments privately are a. a waste of money for the student, and b. creatively stifling for the student unless the want to learn the teacher's 'pet' genre of music. To many so called teachers, it's about money and no more (or a bizarre ego trip). They don't take time to find out what the student wants to learn, they don't put in the effort to prepare course work tailored for the individual and the type of music they want to play - they just apply a 'cookie cutter' one size fits all approach and take the money.  Frankly students would be better seeking out the right sort of YouTube lessons and perhaps even paying for one to one tuition or small group (usually via Patreon ets) from someone on that platform who has a style they admire or want to learn. 

I hate to see folks waste money - and a huge amount of personal music tuition today is just that, a waste of money. If you are going to go to a tutor then go to one who teaches what you want to learn. Ask the right questions, seek out other students that have been taught by that person ... but don't just blindly go to someone who is supposed to be a good player ... because they can be that and a crappy teacher at the same time. 

On 22/07/2025 at 14:35, Burns-bass said:

 

I don’t think that’s really fair. People (including me) have politely suggested that over 300 years of technique might be worth studying, if only to avoid busting your hands up. 
 

Playing with low tension strings is fair enough. You don’t really need the “conventional” technique (note I didn’t say correct) but if someone new to DB tries that with Spiros or something else they could really hurt themselves.
 

It’s friendly advice from people who’ve have made mistakes. I’ve suffered with sore hands and injuries from poor technique and solving it has been a revelation.

 

I’d say advice is delivered in the same way your build thread has inspired others to approach restoring double basses on a sympathetic and professional way.

 

Anyway, good playing HP and hope you’re enjoying the gigs.

Steel double bass strings only really started to become the norm from the 1950s onwards. During the majority of that 300 years folks were playing lower tension strings ... ie gut ... similar to the lower tension strings you are dismissive of. 

On 25/09/2024 at 10:46, tinyd said:

There seem to be a couple of things going on with this thread. There can definitely be a bit of a "joyless" approach taken by some experienced players towards people starting out that says that you'll only get decent after years of rigourous technique and lessons (I haven't heard anybody on Basschat take this approach btw). And then are other people who think that you should get a bass and just start playing and having fun. The two are not mutually exclusive, and as somebody who is self-taught (in the sense of having virtually no in-person lessons) I definitely think that just playing is possible. However, bad technique on DB more than most instruments can definitely hold you back - both in terms of causing pain/injury, but also (as @neilp points out above) in terms of playing in tune.

I'm not as good a player as I'd be if I'd adopted a more consistent/rigorous approach to playing and practicing, and I've had several points where I've had to re-learn and ditch bad habits (particularly after watching better players than myself in person or online). But I've always enjoyed the journey and so I guess what I'm saying is that DB is both fun AND challenging at the same time, but it's definitely worth paying attention to getting some of the basics right when it comes to technique. And there are people here on Basschat that can definitely help with this....
 

Yep there is a trend amongst some double bass players on here to be 'gatekeepers' ...  'you must suffer to gain enlightenment like we have'. 

I very often use the passenger seat of our little Rover 25 - seat reclined a bit - bass upside down and secured with the seatbelt. Works a treat. A bit more of a pain to get in and out, but not much. I can carry a double bass, our PA, and my Bass amplification - and if someone else carries one of the PA speakers - I can carry a back seat passenger too.   

1 hour ago, Beer of the Bass said:

 

It's an interesting area - the Krivo magnetic pickups manage to be a little clearer and more "acoustic" sounding than older designs, presumably using some of the same tricks that modern acoustic guitar soundhole pickups do (controlled microphonics, lower inductance, neo magnets). But no commercial magnetic pickup for bass has cracked the bow response issue yet - because the string vibration is dampened in one plane when bowing (up/down relative to the pickup position), you get unpredictable volume and weird barky attack when bowing with most magnetic pickups. 

There are a couple of cello systems that place polepieces in between the strings so that they sense the movement in that lateral plane more, but I haven't seen that tried on bass. 

Not particularly thought about bowing ... but I would have thought a blade design powered up by neodymium magnet/magnets would keep a more steady volume/response (with possible air gapping between magnet and blade to reduce string pull). Possibly one curved blade to conform to the string arc and a second hum cancelling coil using large diameter alnico magnets. 

Always prepared to have a crack at designing something. I've been working with hybrid material magnet arrays for years in pickups designed for technical metal ... there are always spin offs 🙂 

4 hours ago, itu said:

Could you make a short article here about it, please? 

If folks want a pickup winding article ... of course I can oblige ...

I've done a pine of historic pickup rewind photo articles over on the Fretboard Forum over the years ... and a good number of them were for bass ... so if I get anything juicy I'll post here for certain.

Also if folks want to have a crack at building magnetic pickups for their steel string double basses I'm happy to come up with a design I could help those interested make 🙂 

Buy it ... that's no brainer. 

20 hours ago, MacDaddy said:

 

Be careful what you wish for

 

😉

I already teach pickup winding at my workshop fairly regularly - a few more folks through our hallowed portals won't cause an issue 🙂 

11 hours ago, Hellzero said:

Top notch resurrection, congratulations!

 

I was a bit sceptical about the choice of the finish, but it looks very nice as it is, with that touch of class.

It's interesting that in some light the bass looks jet black - and in some dark brown ... and even black with dark brown highlights. 

I'm a huge fan of gunstock oil .... 

15 hours ago, Burns-bass said:

Yep. Sterling work! This thread should hopefully inspire others, too, which is great. 

 lol to be honest I'm already looking around for another 'buggered big-un' to restore. It's addictive, and there do seem to be quite a few basses languishing as 'conversation pieces' which should be in the hands of players.

If anybody wants help and encouragement with their own bass projects feel free to message me. I'm always happy to pass on skills ... and if you are in the London area - pop in to my Oil City Pickups workshop for coffee and talk basses 😁  

And so 'Frankie' is done all bar the set up ... but I'm letting her settle in and get used to being a bass again before going mad with the action. I brought her up to concert pitch with the nervousness of a bomb disposal officer sat astride a ticking World War aerial mine! Fresh in my mind the first imploding Chinese biscuit material bridge.

I needn't have worried. Plenty of graphite in the bridge slots and she was a good'n.    

So   

                                                              from this                                                                                                        to this

And how does she sound?  Well I'm gobsmacked by how loud she is, I mean the Superior Bassworks Dirty Gut Deluxe strings are not known for huge volume, but the power and projection the old girl has is quite remarkable. 

I'm getting rather fond of the way she appears jet black in some light and dark brown in others 🙂 

Yep I need to cut the nut slots a smidge deeper, and the action could come down a good 4mm at the bridge and still be 'slap worthy'.

The oil varnish needs to harden a while longer before it can have a good polish ... and I need to buy a rubber chicken to put inside the bass ... so that when folks ask 'what's the little hatch for?' ... I can reach in and produce it! 

So after a set up I'm going to look at pickups - ideally something that I can use an adaptor to plug into my Shadow Rockabilly Pro preamp - thus saving on buying two preamps to have both basses gig ready. 

6 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

Looking at the advice, if it was me, I would find the cash as it seems an opportunity to 'try out' double bass with minimal risk. It looks like, with care, you can just tune up and try it.

 

Obviously a setup would be advantageous but beyond that it would be decide whether to stick with and possibly improve it, or to get a better instrument. 

 

My only advice would be that it seems easy to dislodge the soundpost when changing strings.

 

It's a far better starting point than the one in this thread:

 

Lol indeed ... but it's winding up a very distinctive one 

 

On 12/07/2025 at 14:09, PaulKing said:

Yeah its sweet. Guess it only works over wood? What if you were put it over nitro?

I always feel the satin nitro finish I got on my King Mortone refinish could do with a bit more depth and shine, like they used to have.  

 

Yep only bare wood. 

On 12/07/2025 at 14:31, Stub Mandrel said:

I guess it would work on a porous finish? "Try in an inconspicuous area first" as they say!

I remember an instructor in college telling me my welds were porous ... I asked him 'how do you mean?' He said 'poor-as piss!'