joel406

I was once anti-pedal. 

Oh how times have changed.

Band went amp-less about a year ago. And I just dove straight into the QuadCortex. A fantastic piece of kit. More options than you could ever use. But live application with bass is way over kill. Especially if you're not constantly changing scenes. The amp sim and IRs are cool, and it does sound amazing. 

That being said. I wanted simpler.

I already had a stable of pre-amp DI pedals. So, I figured let's run a few. 

When I use an amp, nothing compares to my Mesa Subway system. After running through the entire "current" line I found my sound in the D-800+. The TT-800 and WD-800 are fine amps, just not my sound. The 212 and 410 cabs (Subways all) are second to none for power handling and tone. Love them so much I got 2 of each. I also found a very "Special" Epifani UL901 (custom tone stack) that is incredible. 

But I digress.

This is supposed to be about a pedal.

I got the Subway and Subway+ pedals because their pre-amp is based on the D-800+. And they sound great. But using them with an amp is just redundant. So I put them away. The Mesa's, Sadowsky and Le bass (which I only got to try out once) were put away. 

Now since I wanted something simpler than the QuadCortex I started bringing them back out. The Mesa pedals rock. Just not very clear. The Sadowsky wasn't very clear either. I wanted more punch and distinction. Then I remembered... I have a Le Bass. 

There it was. Clean, with bite. Combined with a Keely Compressor pro, I was there. 

But wait, there's more.

Finding how good the Le bass was (and kicking myself for not figuring it out sooner) I began the ritual information grab. I wanted to know more about it. Several moments into my research I found out the Le Bass was discontinued. 

Such a great sounding pedal. Off the market.

So I went to the Two notes website. 

Le Bass was replaced with Revolt.

Hmmmm...

I spent the rest of the day and most of the night researching this revolt. Which led to the discovery of the Cab M.

Which led to a large order to Sweetwater.

The revolt has had 2 gigs. So far. It will have 3 this week. 

All I can say is... HOLY *&%$!

Channel one. AKA clean. Based on the SVT. A little muffled. But easily brightened. 

Channel two. AKA Vintage Dirt. Based on the Marshal bass amp. There it is. Smooth, bright and distinct sound everywhere with every bass. 

Channel three. AKA Overdrive. Two notes own creation of grit. Crazy good and I can see the application. Not what I need at the moment but it's good to have. And with a little tweaking a nice boost when needed.

This is a longer post than intended. But I felt a little history of my pedal journey would help with perspective. 

Needless to say. I will keep all my pedals. The Mesa Subway pedals are a favorite of mine. The Sadowsky is ok. Nice backup pedal. The Quadcortex is without a doubt king. 

But this Two notes Revolt pedal is special. 

I recommend it.

I've switched permanently to 5 string. I've gotten so comfortable with it that 4 string just feels like a toy now. I use the B all the time. Makes playing much easier even at low E and above. After 4 years of 5 string, I now consider 4 string inferior to 5 string. I no longer even consider 4 string a real bass.

I found 5 string to be very liberating. It's not for everyone. It was for me. Small hands so 6 is out of the question. As is 35" scale. Ironically the Fender American pro line was where my comfort zone was. Life has been sweet ever since.

Question:

What is everyone using for their ampless setups?

I'm using several setups depending on whatever mood I'm in.

A Mesa Subway preamp DI with Keely compressor pro.

A Mesa Subway + preamp DI with compression (Keely pro).

Sadowsky Preamp DI with compression.

Le Bass Preamp DI with compression.

Quad cortex. Obviously, this is an all-in-one package.

I love the Keely Compressor pro. But I also have the MXR and the Empress. I also have chorus. But if I get into anything effect heavy, I would just use the Quad cortex.

Just looking to see what's tipping the boats out there. I find the Noble preamp interesting. I've had the chance to hear them live a couple of times and they do bring it. But the QC as well as my other DIs seem to do just as well.

I have the Boss B6. Just not a fan. Noisy. Not as easy to use as the QC or even the straight pedal DI.

The Mesa Subway D800+ was the cleanest of the line. And if you've never heard of or tried an Epifani... you are missing out.

1 minute ago, warwickhunt said:

 

What?  

 

Thanks for that insight but I'm assuming I've missed something in translation or you simply have a high opinion of your ability to EQ my bass... without having any idea what it is!  This illustrates that you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

I suggest you take your over inflated opinion of your self and place it where your very expensive IEM should not be placed.  

Enjoy your noise.

5 hours ago, warwickhunt said:

 

Genuinely appreciate the suggestions and don't be put off by the fact I've tried them. 

 

I tried the internal switch literally as soon as I plugged it in for the first time.  I may still try it again as there is never a guarantee that something has changed elsewhere in the signal path in the meantime.  

 

I'm actually wondering if there is a way I can record what is coming into my P2/IE... wondering if I can connect something simple into the headphone output rather than my IE?

Your EQ is set wrong.

I use parametric EQ'ing. Much easier than trying to putz with a graphic. 

I set low at around 80/85hz. Level at about +10/11

Mids are hella scooped.

Low mids around 450 with gain at -12.

High mids set to 850/875 with gain at -12.

Highs at 8.5k with gain at +3/4.

Your Q line should be pretty contoured. Gradual rise up and down. Falling slightly below the mids and a gradual rise up to the highs.

The level from the desk cannot be too low. If you are turning levels up above 20 on the mixer, the level set to your bus is too low.

If your wireless is having dropouts. Try rescanning. If your using a "budget" or cheap POS wireless. Get a Shure PSM300 pro system. Any and every issue you "claim" to have, I have "never had". And I leave the stage and travel upwards of 100 to 150 feet from the stage. IEMs sound clear and sharp. Zero distortion. Also if you're using "budget" or crap IEMs, get some real ones. I've never tried KZ. Mine are custom fit. With "quality" drivers. I own 2 sets. One 5 driver a side (3 lows 1 mid 1 high) with crossovers. My main set is 8 driver a side (4 low 2 mid 2 high) of course crossovers.

You are doing it wrong.

4 hours ago, warwickhunt said:

 

How would I hear the rest of the band?  Guitars use no backline so the FOH is the only sound source, likewise vocals.  I don't need to have the drums through my IEM as I get enough of the drum bleed through either the vocal mic or ambient; the guitar on the other hand is non-existent as are the vocals, how do I hear those?

Well...

If you have IEMs, and your IEMs are wireless, your sound system should have WIFI. Your IEMs should already be plugged into the desk. Use the WIFI to connect either your smart phone (iPhone is best) or tablet (iPad is best) to the WIFI network of your desk. Set the app you're using to the bus your IEMs are connected to. You get a mixer on your device that allows you to mix everything to your taste. Remember! Proper EQ is essential. Once you've worked that out it's done. Once you've set your levels you are done. Vocals, guitars, keyboards, bass and drums (as well as any other instrument) will all be available in your mix. Easy as can be. I've been doing this for 2 years now. It's great because going from venue to venue the sound never changes for me. Just a little level adjustment here and there, takes seconds. Then your good for the rest of the show.

I used to have a GK CX210. 2 of em. Worst cabs on the planet. But I since got some Mesa Subway 212s. The difference is shocking. Amazing low end and just all-around great tone. When I stack both they will put just about anything to shame. Including SVTs. I don't dislike 10s. I have a pair of Mesa Subway 410s. Same thing as the 212s. Rock solid and both stacked will stop a charging T-Rex. But if you still want to live in the amp world you gotta get good cabs. The K212 isn't a bad cab. I had one. They just don't have the best tone.

I owned a TT-800 for a while. In fact I had the TT the WD-800 and the D-800+. After months of comparison, I found my sound was in the D-800+. But the TT was a very close second. The WD just plain didn't work for me. I believe I just don't like hybrid amps. I had an even bigger problem with the current GK line that caused me to abandon them after 30 years of loyalty. 

That being said...

The TT-800 is a very fine amp. And even though it didn't work for me that doesn't mean it won't work for you. It's a metal head IMHO. Easily overdriven. I was partial to the Boogie channel. HPF is strong and will tame the wildest boom. Sounds like you have some quality cabs so you should be able to enjoy all the glory it can provide. I did miss the mid volume controls. They seem to be the secret to the D-800+. 

Having moved on to IEMs amps aren't really on my radar anymore. But I do have them around should the need arise.

You did good though.

2 hours ago, LENX said:

I'm wondering if any of you folk use a specific make of low B string,(make and size) that "YOU HAVE FOUND THAT WORKS BEST FOR YOU"  that has good definition on passive Basses. also what kind of settings on the Amp and what size speaker. 

While very subjective. You're going to get a lot of opinions. I switched to 5 string 4 years ago. Let all my 4's go. I now have a stable of 6, 5 string passive basses. I used D'Adario strings when I played 4 string. After switching I tried a lot of strings. I went all the way around the dial and ended up back where I started. I like the "Half-Rounds". I use them on all my basses. As far as settings go. Again subjective. Watch the low mids. Besides I don't use amps much anymore. When I do it's my Mesa Subway cabs and my Subway heads or my Epifani. But live shows are always amp-less.

21 hours ago, la bam said:

 

You do know theres all kinds of bassists on here? From beginners, pub players, club players, pit players, pros, people who do it for fun, touring bands, famous bands, famous bassists and a lot of genuine legends. No ones opinion is worth more than anyone else's. That's what makes this site great - it's a discussion forum, not a platform for im right and youre wrong statements.

That's adorable.

3 big shows this week. Loving the QC and my IEMS. Both total game changers. 

Keep humping those rigs guys. It's all downhill from there.

5 hours ago, silverfoxnik said:

Not necessarily... 

 

 

Nice.

Very subjective and not what everyone else experiences. The QC is definitely the future. Safer. More adaptive. As a bass player this is even more so. And having to move your amps into another part of the venue shows how toxic onstage noise truly is. But thanks for proving my point even if you weren't trying. After the last 3 days of gigs, we are all just a little bit more in love with our QCs and IEMs. And after seeing this I'm so glad we ditched our amps. Maybe the guys in the video will learn to use their QCs one day and get the sound they are after. It certainly does for us.

7 gigs in 14 days. 

Some small. Some not so small. IEMs for everyone. 

Sound tech happy.

Crowd happy.

My back is happy.

My tone has never been better. The Quadcortex is a proven amp killer. 

Are amps dead.

No. They have their place. 

Just not on a stage.

3 minutes ago, la bam said:

One other thing is you dont need to give up your amps to use in ears. You can use your in ears just for your own monitor mix instead of wedges etc. Ie just tickle through what you need to hear.

Eh...

What?

34 minutes ago, chris_b said:

Amps are not obsolete.

Yeah!

There are.

11 minutes ago, Frank Blank said:

I was considering IEMs but if they make you that belligerent I think I'll give them a miss.

You seem to have missed, a long time ago.

3 minutes ago, Jean-Luc Pickguard said:

There's no greater feeling than standing in front of a great sounding stack (in my case Ashdown ABM600 evo iv & a pair of cabs) dialled in and cranked up, playing a tight groove with a decent drummer, with a breeze on your back from the speaker displacement, and every note being felt through the floor.

Had a gig a couple of months ago on a big stage. Old mix board. No wifi. I brought an amp so's not to have to futz with it. 810 Mesa stack with Mesa 800 watt head. Sounded great for about 3 songs. Missed my IEMS the rest of the show. The 2000 people in the audience didn't care.

1 minute ago, Waddo Soqable said:

As someone else mentioned, I very much dislike things poked in my ears, they'd annoy the hell out of me and I'd just pull them out and throw 'em! 

Plus I've found any sort of in 'yer ear headphoney type thing just falls out anyway. 

Not for me, ta 👎

Sounds like most 4 year olds I've seen.

1 hour ago, jezzaboy said:

Good on the op for telling us that we who still use amps and don`t fancy using iem`s for whatever reason that we are all wrong. 

You're welcome.

Now try to learn from your mistake.

Lots of great replies.

Lots of "opinions".

But!

One fact remains.

I have been a professional Bassist for a long time. Toured for a lot of people. Used so many amps for so many years. Making the comparison between using amps vs in-ears is a comparison I can make from an educated point of view. 

In-ears are the future. They make your sound viable. On stage amplification is detrimental to the sound you "want" the audience to hear. Stage monitors(wedges) are no different. The quiet stage is the stage that sounds the best. Amps are only used for on stage monitors. And are inefficient. If you move anywhere on stage your mix changes. Things become either overbearing or disappear altogether. In-ears eliminate all of this. 

From the smallest POS pub to the biggest stadiums. In-ears are the only viable solution. 

I get what people are saying above this post. If you don't like em, or if you feel they are unnecessary. Or if you just don't believe they aren't all they are cracked up to be.

You're wrong.

And no venue anywhere will ever offer them. 

In-ears are user specific. Molded and fit to the user's own ears. They will not properly fit anyone else's ears. 

Time to come fully into the 21st century people. In-ears, amp modeling, are the better option. And yes. The amp sims are superior to the actual amps. 

Like I said. Both our guitar players and myself. Use the Quadcortex. It "IS" the amp killer. 

And if ya got an amp you just love more than your own children. The QC is "the" kit that can capture it perfectly. And allow you to take that amp with you wherever you go. All in a small pedal. But straight outa the box. The QC runs circles around any amp out there. 

Yeah! it's that good.

I've been playing and gigging for a long, long time. And I'm as old-school as it gets. I've spent years and thousands of dollars on amps. But a year ago I decided to make the switch to in-ear monitors. I started out using a pre-amp pedal. Running straight to the board. Then of course to my in-ears. I finally found a EQ  setting that was perfect. Then I moved to an amp modeler. Wow. The mix I have is perfect. Venue to venue I only need to adjust a few volumes and It's just the same great sound every show. Now as I said I'm "old-school". Love my amps. Mesa Boogie. Epifani. What's not to like. Well the amp sim has quit the selection. I'm currently running Aguilar DB751 with a Darkglass 212 neo cab. Compressor, parametric EQ, noise gates and high pass, low pass filters and chorus. That's output one. Output two is clean. Dry signal. Sound from FOH is amazing. 

I use either my 5 driver ears, or my 8 driver ears. Both get the job done.

So why are/is anyone still doing this?

Using ANY amps. The only thing I use amps for these days is rehearsal. Simply because there's usually no wifi setup so I can mix myself. But it's rehearsal. WE need to communicate. In-ears are isolating. So, with them in it's hard to talk. But on stage they can't be beat.

Amps are obsolete. And even the best of em can't beat the sound of in-ear monitoring. 

Of you are considering in-ears. Nobody needs more than a nice 5 driver set. Companies out there are advertising up to 21 drivers per side. At a cost of over $3000.00 USD.

Mine were made by the company that does the band YES. And Kansas. As well as a host of other international acts. And mine are the top of their line. Less than $1000.00 USD. 

Alien Ears | Alien Ears custom in ear monitors

Custom fitted. Incredible sound. 

An amp less stage is so awesome.

Why would anyone still use an amp?

As far as which amp sim is best? That is 100% subjective. And that world is getting bigger everyday. My band is comprised of a lead singer, drummer, myself(bass) and 2 guitar players. Both guitar players and myself use the Quadcortex. the tone is the best of all amp sims available. Again. Subjective.

Do yourselves a favor.

Ditch the amps.

Tomorrow is our fifth gig since Wednesday. We played two Friday. A blend of Bars and Festivals. Exhausted. Next week is a little better. I think there's just three. Taylor Swift is playing the last of three shows tonight so traffic sucked. Had to pass the stadium area yesterday and today. But home for now. Last festival tomorrow. Out at 6am for another 100-mile drive. One way. The whole year is booked like this. Estimating that the band should clear 300K usd this year.

No thanks.