Dankology

I think we're probably making the same point here. The only difference being that I would regard understanding the use of plugins to be integral to engineering skills you mention above.

I'd bet the engineer that you used was in large part using his expertise with the hardware equivalents of the software plugins we use at home. And, no doubt, a raft of plugins too.

I reckon for something to sound good it has to be well played, recorded, mixed and mastered - and arguably in that order of importance. With the electronica that the OP is working on at least the engineering side can be a little more straightforward. Unless he's setting up all his sequencers around a single mic for a classic 1950s sound...

Not sure how many house tracks came out of Sun and Chess... Or whether theirs is the aesthetic the OP is aiming for 🙂

A handful of premium microphones and utterly fabulous rooms - neither of which your average home recordist has access to. Nor most modern working studios for that matter.

42 minutes ago, Mcgiver69 said:

Chucking more gear and plugins at it will make no difference, if you want to get better at mixing you need to get some knowledge and practice.

I get what you are saying but knowing which pieces of equipment and plugins are needed and how to use them is an integral part of the process. I'm not sure you can get the results the OP wants without a working knowledge of (and healthy stock) of decent plugins.

I wouldn't say that this sounds particularly homemade to me but it isn't really my genre so the subtleties may be lost on me.

In general though, I find that digital recording and anything other than hugely expensive interfaces lend a too-clean quality to the highs which often ends up with mixes sounding a bit cheap. 

I would make sure that any guitars are recorded with mics on amps (rather than DI'd) and I often try putting keys and such through an amp sim plug in (but perhaps only mix the effect in 50/50, say).

I would also experiment with putting the whole mix (and/or individual instruments) through a tape sim plug in (Variety of Sound do a great free one).

The Baxter eq plug in is a powerful but subtle bus eq that I use on everything to tame that harshness/cleaness that betrays home recordings. I think there's a good argument for putting the main mix through a subtle compressor and a tiny bit of reverb just to mush everything together: somehow this glues everything together in a way that makes a coherent whole.

I think the great limiter is in terms of vocal sounds - without a nice condenser and some acoustic treatment in your room it is very difficult to get a truly polished and pro sound but there are still ways and means to get 90% there. If you are recording mainly non-vocal stuff, it's a little easier. 

One last thought: I almost always find that if I've recorded something (or seen it being recorded) it is *very* difficult to hear it as I would someone else's record - I hear the flaws, the compressors, the reverb... I even see the singers at the mic - but when I hear a great record, I just hear music. YMMV

4 hours ago, Teebs said:

How did it go last night?

Sorry I couldn't make it - will try for the Retro Bar one.

Argh.

Just as we were about to set off we got a message from the rep: the headline act had been involved in a car crash and had to drop out - could we bring the back line? Just as were about to finish repacking the cars with drums and my amp we got a further message saying that the promoters had pulled the gig entirely.

Unpacked, listened to to some recent studio work, nice meal out then back for an abreviated rehearsal... It was quite lovely all in all. The other band are ok, thankfully.

Roll on Retro bar! Thanks for asking 😀

Bloody hell. That's going to need sorting out. Thank you!

Thank you!

Blueprint always looks like a fabulous place to rehearse in.

We're at Retro Bar on 28th March, closing as mismatched a four-band bill as I've ever seen...

If anyone in Salford/Manchester is at a loose end please consider coming down to the Eagle Inn tonight to catch my lovely band supporting the excellent China Moon.

Apologies: last moment cancellation due to the headliners being involved in a car crash (thankfully all are well).

It isn't in the 2006-2012 edition, if that's any help in your search...

5 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

Perhaps our tastes are different tho. I like the idea of that and i might just buy the remaining studio albums just for sake of having them.

I do quite fancy the Montreux DVD as the more i watch it the more i like the overall sound and atmosphere of the gig

Dave

 

I went looking for the Montreux CD after Hollis died and the prices were a bit silly. Didn't think to look at the DVD... Might go and check out Ebay now...

edit: sorry, it was the London 86 cd i was after...

1 hour ago, dmccombe7 said:

I'll listen to the album on youtube to get a better feel for it

 

Can I respectfully suggest that you not do this?

Instead I'd recommend that you purchase it in the format of your preference, set aside an evening when you'll be undisturbed, treat yourself to a premium version of your beverage of choice and then play it from end-to-end and immerse yourself in its unspeakable beauty. 

The first time I ever heard Spirit of Eden is indelibly imprinted on my memory: a friend brought it round after a gig and played it at ear-splitting volume at far too late an hour. Love at first sight/sound.

Here's the recording of Franz from 2012:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1syXn7CRAck6mPlDDanEjjTr_puoqnIJh

(zipped MP3s - can upload FLACS if anyone wants them)

The run from Track 4 - 7 is quite wonderful.

Love them! The album that Stuck Between the Stations is from is particularly good - the song First Night on there is one of my favourite songs of all time. You can get it really cheap with a bonus acoustic live disc too.

Franz Nicolay's solo stuff is very good too (although he covers a very wide range of genres...) His Do the Struggle LP is worth checking out. I made a great recording of him touring that album that I could upload if anyone wants a listen.

Tiny northwestern town here - can't move for open mics, at least two or three venues putting on original bands, most pubs put covers bands or singers on regularly - we must have it pretty good.

Please listen, comment and share as you see fit...

Re burglaries - when a friend of mine was broken into, the robbers left two very nice guitars that he had out on stands but stole the two near-worthless ones he'd left in their cases. 

Convenience and portability clearly being the priority...

I think the whole point of musicians' interviews (outside of the highly technical but usually otherwise mundane/inane ones instrument mags) is to cater to the the very natural need the public have to better understand the people whose art has affected them. The artists themselves often value the opportunity to contextualize and add perspective. So the examples you list above are really the "normal" stuff: artists talking about the things their fans want to know about. This is not some "preoccupation with the inner artist" - this is someone doing the job that people want them to do: the alternative would be the unchallenging, technical, hagiographic approach of the instrument-specific magazines. 

Van has a long history of not indulging the former approach and often striving to characterize his art as "work", expressing frustration that interviewers (and people in general) are not sufficiently aware of the artists that he apparently holds dear. This interviewer seemed to know this and took a pragmatic approach and yet he still acted like a spoilt child, and didn't even have a pithy retort to hand.

As I say above, he has no need to do any interviews - he could have made it part of his current contract or even provided interviewers with a list of pre-approved topics or questions. But he doesn't, he prefers to play the curmudgeon - when it would be far more eloquent (and befitting of his artistic legacy) to say nothing at all.

To be fair, I think she was trying to do the exact opposite of that and actually tried to engage him about the practicalities of his job rather than trying to tease out any hidden meanings. And she successfully called his bluff too (or rather he tried and failed to call hers) when the topic shifted onto his preferred jazz musicians. I'd wager that the journalist knew *exactly* what to expect and was taking a circumspect approach. Despite this Van, artlessly and irrelevantly, used all his standard "defenses"... I mean, does asking about why a couple of old songs have been exhumed really count as a "psychiatric interview" or "intellectual debate"? 

It almost sounds like he nearly let the facade slip when the journalist in desperation actually appealed to some sort of personal connection - the exact opposite of how many of his interviews play out.

I'm a huge fan of his music but I've not read one word about Morrison that suggests he's anything other than a deeply unpleasant man who revels in being contrary. And I don't buy that he only entertains interviewers under record company duress: this is a man who has kept some of his finest work out of print for years in order to maintain industry grudges. And I'm fairly certain that the same old lags will be buying his current LP regardless of whether the broadsheets run a feature on it or not.

I can only read him one of two ways: he's either constantly reaching out to connect (hence his massive output) but is uncomfortable with/embarrassed by this OR he genuinely is joylessly doing the only job he can, and just happens to be brilliant at it.

I realize that this is much-covered ground but I just wanted to have a bit of a grumble about my own fickleness.

We did some recording earlier in the year for which I used an Aerodyne Jazz stung with flats which I was really very content with. As time went on I decided I wanted something a little pokier as the bass (a PJ, of course) was not really cutting through on some songs live.

As a 40th birthday treat to myself not long afterwards I treated myself to a US Jazz with EMGs from the Marketplace here. It was strung with rounds that were a bit slender for me but the whole thing sounded great - nice and present both in rehearsal and live plus it was, improbably, lighter than the Aerodyne so my dodgy shoulder was happy too.

Last week I went back to change one of the bass parts on the studio recordings and was gutted to hear the difference between the two basses. To the point that we left the old part as-is. I know that the original part had been subject to some EQ and had been recorded through a nicer desk but it was clear that the intrinsic sound was much more suited to the song. And more pleasing to my ear.

So today I'm going to pull the Pyramids off the Aerodyne and see how they sound on the Jazz via its JVX pickups. If that doesn't float my boat I'm trying the other EMGs that came with the bass and if that doesn't help thicken up the sound I'll be open to suggestions. Unless they involve not using my lovely, light new bass.

We supported a band the other week where the bassist had what seemed to be a Jazz Deluxe and played with a pick through an amp with loads of top end and still had a lovely thudding sound - I should've picked his brain.

It was "bongos" rather than washboard...

The Fall were an interesting case though. Much like Beefheart and the Magic Band, the one individual really defined the band beyond any other member and yet there are still line-ups of each band that I would say are very much not The Fall or the Magic Band despite MES or Van Vliet still being present.

(FWIW, I'm referring to the Fall post-2005 or so and the Magic Band around the time of Unconditionally Guaranteed)

Our XR18 cost £250 secondhand on Ebay - no significantly more than a new XR12...

What tablets does everyone use to control these?

I've now bought a Kindle and a Samsung tablet second hand - neither of which had 5Ghz functionality (despite being advertised as such), which is, of course, the main advantage of using an external router.

I just want a cheap tablet 8" - 10" screen, 5GHz wireless compatible - doesn't seem too much to ask...

...and in or around Manchester, you could do worse than coming and seeing Joan the Wad at the Eagle in Salford:

Live version of forthcoming single here: https://t.co/WjB2fuB7h9?amp=1

Tickets here: https://fatso.ma/MOdT

The main act (Juliper Sky) sound very promising too.

I dunno, mine (linked to above) struggled to be heard above an entirely unamplified small acoustic guitar and single vocalist.

I could hear it ok but it apparently did not project into the small room at all.