6v6

[quote name='FuNkShUi' timestamp='1437569183' post='2827118']
Must disagree with this.
...
[/quote]

Fair enough, I meant no offence, you pitched it very differently in your previous post, e.g "not listening to any of the points i am concerned about", "it will be left to me to set up when we do get it" etc - that didn't sound like your opinion (as the one who would be left to set it up e.g the actual user of the kit) was being respected at all, hence my suggestion that you just get whatever you're comfortable with and use that.

Good luck

[quote name='FuNkShUi' timestamp='1437549814' post='2826875']
The main issue being no one else in the band really has any idea of how a P.A works, so they are taking his word on it, and not listening to any of the points i am concerned about, also it will be left to me to set up when we do get it.
[/quote]

Respectfully, that doesn't sound like a particularly long-lasting band dynamic. Take note of the individual folks owning items advice IMHO - I've been in the situation of a band split with a jointly owned PA and it's a massive hassle. If you're expected to drive the mixer, I'd say you should buy whatever you're comfortable using, and have other folks buy say an active speaker each, which they own, store, and bring to each gig.

+1 on active speakers and a passive mixer. This also gives you some redundancy if the monitors are powerful enough to be swapped in as a temporary top should one fail at a gig.

You probably don't really need two subs unless you're playing big venues IMO (you can even get by without any subs IME if the bass is mostly amped via a bass rig and the venues are small e.g pubs).

[quote name='1970' timestamp='1436360206' post='2817468']
Thanks for your advice, I'm going to do it anyway.
[/quote]

Awesome trolling!

I'd check the cab you're using - is there any chance it's too low impedance for the amp (wired wrong inside?), do the amps every cut out during use or overheat before they fail?

It sounds like you're blowing power amps, so I'd be checking out the load first and foremost (and the cables used to connect, e.g that there's no intermittent short etc)

Great to see this progressing!

FWIW [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/200152-1x12-diy-cab-build/page__st__30"]my SM212 loaded cab[/url] has been working well for over 18months of regular gigging - AFAICS it's very similar to this design (Phil Starr gave me quite a lot of help working out the design so it's no surprise...)

I made a shelf port, started out with 50Hz tuning, then tried 40Hz for a few months by adding an extra piece to the shelf. Overall for my needs (4 string primarily) the 50Hz works best - it's subtle but I get a bit more punch and power handling vs the 40Hz setup.

It's quite surprising how far just one of these cabs/drivers will go - powered with a LM3 it's more than enough for most pub gigs - only recently I started feeling that having a second one for some larger venues would be a nice idea, have to clear some space in the shed to make another one!

The comments about mid prominence are interesting - I've not really noticed that being an issue, but in a brief side by side comparison with an Ampeg 4x10HLF recently it definitely did have more mids than the (quite scooped) sound of the Ampeg.

[quote name='Grand Wazoo' timestamp='1436342417' post='2817176']
Luckily, the Amp Hospital in Weybridge Surrey have it now, and said they will attempt to repair, nothing guaranteed but they'll give it a bash. finger crossed.
[/quote]

Sure they'll sort you out, took a broken Mackie speaker to them a while back and they sorted it very quickly. Reassuring presence of actual test gear in their workshop too!

[quote name='Chienmortbb' timestamp='1435690807' post='2811548']
Oh well one good myth destroyed by another. I must have just been lucky. Of course I have been making cabinets since 1970 but maybe my 5 builds does not give a representative sample coated to Alex's experience.

Two more questions then. Is there such a think as void free ply. I mean can you order bios free or do you just have to purchase and hope.
Secondly what is a void? I can only imagine knit holes or possibly where two sheets of veneer have not been lined up properly before the adhesive sets.
[/quote]


You need to ask for birch ply suitable for cabinet making - some say void free, but if you chat with a decent timber merchant they'll sort you out with the good stuff.

The problem with the cheap far eastern ply is when you either try to joint it (screws/biscuits), or rout to do say a round-over, box/finger joint, dovetails, or whatever, you'll discover there's two sheets of reasonable laminate with a mush of weak stuff in the middle which will blow to pieces the second you touch it with a fast rotating router bit.

Decent European birch ply is a totally different material IME, it's much, much stronger, and much, much nicer to machine - you can easily rout say a joint or a roundover and it machines more cleanly than a piece of solid wood.

FWIW I used 15mm latvian birch for my 1x12 build, which is a good compromise between strength and weight, although it's slightly harder to find than 12/18mm. It's twice the price of the far eastern ply, but well worth it IME.

Personally I'd just take a bass+amp and DI the acoustic guitar.

Alternatively I'd think any clean bass amp with a cab that has a tweeter would do a passable job with acoustic guitar (e.g go for one of the more "full range" and uncoloured bass cabs).

[quote name='Byo' timestamp='1435111257' post='2805609']
A pin router with a template, like the old Fender´s may be a possible alternative.
I am going to do further research as I am very interested.
[/quote]

Note you don't really need a dedicated pin router, you can just as easily use a generic handheld router with a template/guided-profile cutter bit in it.

I got a 1200w 1/2" router from Aldi for £25 with a set of kitchen fitter bits which would do the job with reasonable accuracy - if I was regularly building guitars (I'm not, only a few amp/head cabs) I'd probably get a better quality one and make or buy a router table for more control.

If you haven't already check out [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/218644-time-lapse-workshop-series/"]skelf's timelapse workshop series[/url] - this was an eye-opener to me, shows how ACG's are all made with a handheld router and templates, no fancy machinery in sight!

With some care the same process could easily be replicated at home, although of course the experience and skill demonstrated in that series is unquestionable!

I've often wondered about this myself, but quickly realized that (as others have mentioned) the up front effort in both cost of machinery and investment in software knowledge is relatively prohibitive for an occasional builder.

To put it in to context, my mate runs a timber manufacturing company, and their 3 axis CNC system cost as much as our house! I'm sure there are cheaper ways to get started, but I'm not aware of many with capacity to make full size guitars, unless you're prepared to invest even more time and make or modify something (used milling machine conversion or similar).

It's probably also worth mentioning that all those "classic Fender shapes" were created on pin routers with templates, e.g something you can easily replicate with a decent router, template cutter and maybe a router table and a few jigs for the neck.

[quote name='ironside1966' timestamp='1434629457' post='2801319']
if it is because of the IEEE-1394 firewire there may be away.
[/quote]

There is but it's going to involve hacking in legacy firewire drivers which Microsoft decided not to include or sign it for Windows 8 like they did for Windows 7.

I faced the exact same issues with a pair of Presonus firepods recently, the WIndows 8 firewire drivers are total junk for pro-audio, and you can only get stable performance if you hack in a driver from a previous version of windows, which requires booting the OS into a special untrusted mode whenever you use the devices.

I was not prepared to do that, so I eventually gave up and bought a standalone recorder instead.

In summary, Microsoft think Firewire is dead and they don't care about existing pro-audio users at at all

Edit - this thread should be titled damn you Microsoft, it's not really Mackies fault IMO.

[quote name='Jenny_Innie' timestamp='1434459236' post='2799768']
How do you work that one out Sherlock?
[/quote]

Undue snark IMO, everybody in the band starts the gig slightly reserved and nervous, then a few songs in it's starting to flow, everyone gets into it and starts digging in and/or turning up to keep up with the increasingly excitable and invariably gurning drummer. Happened in every band I've ever been in to varying degrees, been regularly gigging for over 20 years.

[quote name='scojack' timestamp='1434401137' post='2799297']
Would have been good with a template, but freehand , nice work Andy
[/quote]

My thoughts exactly - every time I've tried freehand routing the results have been fairly disastrous so I make a template every time now.

Respect for the skills demonstrated here, very enjoyable thread, thanks for sharing!

[quote name='Muppet' timestamp='1434406734' post='2799364']
Doesn't necessarily mean it's the amps, it could be the cabs. I have both those amps too and don't find them a problem at any volume. What's it like using just one cab?
[/quote]

+1 - IME solid state amps don't really have a "sweet spot", so you should be able to dial in your required amount of preamp gain (e.g a bit of grit/colour if you want it), then set your level with the master volume.

Valve amps are a different matter, because part of the sound is pushing the power amp into mild clipping, whereas this sounds awful with most solid state amps.

As others have mentioned, try one cab - you're running two really loud and efficient cabs so they may just be projecting too much for the venues (e.g I always use one 1x12 for most pub gigs and it's ample, particularly with a little PA support in larger venues).

Also try turning down or off your feed to the PA (unless it's large venues, for pub gigs it may just not be needed, particularly if the rest of the band inc drums aren't DI'd).

Then as others have mentioned, cut the low bass, and if you can't hear yourself boost the mids slightly instead of turning up - this sound often sits better in the mix anyway and will be much less boomy out front.

Good luck!

[quote name='Bobthedog' timestamp='1433964519' post='2795536']
Despite being set up by his suggested luthier, he believes the notes on both to be inconsistent, personally I cannot hear it and neither can the luthier. On the basis the tutor has got me through 4 bass grades without issue, I cannot be bothered to argue. He is also keen that I do not swap between basses.
[/quote]

His attitude sounds really bad, personally I'd be looking for a new tutor.

[quote name='Truckstop' timestamp='1432629176' post='2783294']
Actually, the OP plays with bass almost completely off but still has a bass heavy sound?
[/quote]

I read it as tone completely off, e.g like on a P-Bass where it actually gives you a mid-bass boost, e.g more thumpy and bassy with very little treble. I also do this a lot, but I play in a rock/blues band where it works well, but I roll it back up and use a pick for poppy stuff which demands more attack.

I bet that Peavey Deuce VT will sound awesome for bass - probably the better choice of the two when pushing it with bass as the tube power stage will be more forgiving and sound better when it inevitably starts to clip.

Provided you don't need huge volume I'm sure either will be fine - I'm a great fan of making do with what you have too, and have gigged successfully with some pretty weird and wonderfull lashed together rigs over the years.

You might also want to consider getting a Behringer BDI-21, they are very cheap, so if you need to you can DI into the PA easily as an alternative/backup.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1431350197' post='2770255']
Plus, I've had a Behringer BDI-21 (Sansamp Clone) for years and it's been very reliable. It was £25 and sounds 95% like the pedal it's emulating.
[/quote]

+1, I've had a BDI-21 for a couple of years, and it's great for the price, and has been reliable.

More reliable than my £500 MarkBass actually, so while my LM3 was getting fixed, I cobbled together a makeshift rig for a recent gig with the BDI-21 DI'd and going through an old PA amp into my normal cab.

It worked, cost nothing, and most folks in the audience couldn't tell the difference, I even got a couple of compliments on the punchy tone out front!

Anyway, bit OT, but I just wanted to illustrate that Behringher do have a somewhat undeserved bad rep online, and IME they make some good stuff for us budget-constrained bassists, and it's just as reliable as any other brand, even supposedly premium ones.

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1431351481' post='2770289']
A sensible, GAS-killing, expense-avoiding thread on Basschat?!?!

Whatever next?
[/quote]



Sorry, I came over a bit funny for a moment there didn't I, don't worry, I'm back to browsing ebay and maxing out my credit cards as we speak!

[quote name='barkin' timestamp='1431162060' post='2768335']
Get the amp that you really want.

If it doesn't have a headphone out, get a Zoom B1on
[/quote]

True, but my response was really aiming to highlight that it's nuts to endlessly research amps lacking any features appropriate to your only current use-case, e.g home practice as has been previously stated.

I kinda feel like we've all been giving crack to an addict here, clearly the OP is in the midst of a major multi-month GAS attack, obsessively researching every detail of products they can't afford and don't really need. We've all been there!

I know the OP came here to seek refuge amongst other, similarly afflicted GAS addicts, but I feel like it's only responsible to try and rationalize things, so here it is, some well intentioned "tough love", FWIW:

1. Don't buy a really expensive amp you can't really afford and don't really need, you'll suffer the agony of the associated debt for much longer than the "agony" of the research.

2. The only way to gain experience of playing live is to get out there and do it. You don't need an expensive amp for this. Turn up at some jam nights with your £35 pedal and plug direct into the PA, it'll work fine, you can jam with friends at a rehearsal studio using the same method (or, frequently, with amps provided by the studio). This is also a great way to meet folks and get into/form a band.

3. If you really want to own an amp, or get to the point where you really need one, get something cheap (used) and live with it for a while, gaining experience of what you like. My first two amps were a £50 Behringher combo, then a £70 Hartke kickback, I gigged both in small/medium pubs (also DI'd generally) for several years before upgrading. They both worked perfectly fine. The MarkBass I upgraded to does the exact same job, slightly louder, but cost *way* more - personally I could never justify that outlay unless I had income from gigs to pay for it.

Whatever you get, have fun and enjoy making music with it - good luck!

[quote name='Funky Dunky' timestamp='1430944347' post='2766271']
I'm so drawn to the Aguilar TH350 though. I love all their stuff, it sounds incredible to my ears. Only problem is, you can't get them in Scotland and God knows how far South I would have to go to get a shot of one.

Plus, I couldn't possibly stretch to an Aguilar cab as well as a head, so what in the name of Jeebus kind of cab do I match an Aguilar head to without compromising it immensely? Buying the Aguilar head would leave me £300 for a 2x10 cab, and I'm not up for buying any old cab just to fit budget.
[/quote]

Does the TH350 have a headphone jack or an aux in? If I wasn't primarily using a head for gigging, both of these would be essential (or, as others have already mentioned, I'd just use a cheap pedal instead).

Pretty sure £300 would buy you a used Aguilar (or other brand) cab tho.

[quote name='Funky Dunky' timestamp='1430944347' post='2766271']
The agony!!
[/quote]

Precision bass does it for me - tone down and use fingers for blues/soul/rock-and-roll stuff, tone up and/or use a pick for pop/rock and more twangy stuff.

Maybe add a pedal which does drive and eq if you want to get really fancy

Thanks for the review, I've been admiring these and it's great to get some first-hand feedback on them

The power switch fault is worrying though, having it go once is unfortunate, but twice?! Pretty bad for such a premium amp IMO.

What's the repair turnaround time like - do they have to go back to the US each time?

molan: It would be interesting to know if this fault has been properly rectified for the next batch?

IMO a 2x10 should be enough, but it really depends on the band - if it's not enough your stage volume is probably too high, which probably means your guitarists have massively too-big amps and/or the drummer can't control their volume.

I gig regularly with a single 1x12, and even that is enough to drown out a fairly enthusiastic acoustic drummer with a 300w amp. That said, I do nearly always DI for extra projection into the venue via the PA.