mtroun

Everything I thought I knew about left hand technique was shattered in my first lesson with Tom Martin. I was trying too hard before! I would say one of my biggest issues on the bass is being able to relax (probably after a long time playing nearly unplayable instruments)

Just remember that buying a double bass in no way compares to buying a bass guitar or EUB. I have a £150 bass guitar that is perfectly good, but the £400 double bass I started on was, in retrospect, not a good decision (but it was all I could afford) My best advice would be to look out for an old-ish Eastern European plywood bass on gumtree or basschat, go and look at an instrument before you commit to buying.

No Dave Holland?

I've used both Medium and Weich. Definitely get Weich. Very good all around strings.

Tom Martin? Worth a 2 hour drive I reckon!

You'd have to pry most of my favourite books out of my cold, dead hands! Still, I'm sure there are a couple of books I could offer. There's the Bob Magnusson walking bass lines book, I'll have a look and see what else I've got that might be helpful!

Spirocore are awesome for the bow, you just need rosin and correct technique!

Oh wow and such a great price! Would you accept a kidney as I don't think you'd be remotely interested in my Stingray!

Evah Pirazzi stand out as the best choice for a 'hybrid' string. Spirocore are also fabulous for both arco and pizz (whatever anyone else says) I currently have Spirocore E and A with Oliv D and G, I play pizz only professionally but I practice arco a lot.

Love the Motown Book. I don't really like any of the double bass method books available. The Goldsby book is a nice historical survey of jazz bass playing though. I do use some exercises from the Rufus Reid and Ray Brown books mind you. My favourite books are possibly 'The Jazz Musician's Guide To Creative Practice' by David Berkman and the totemic 'How To Improvise' by Hal Crook, plus Barry Finnerty's 'Serious Jazz Practice Book' which despite its title is brilliant for players of any style.

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(For me) The entire appeal of music is that there shouldn't be an aspect of pressure attached to it, self-imposed or otherwise. It's why tuition doesn't work for me.

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Just because music is pleasurable doesn't mean it isn't a craft that requires effort to make progress with. I have found the best 'pressure' to be after a gig when I assess what I could have done to make a better performance and that factors into my practice at home. I certainly enjoy playing gigs more when I feel adequately prepared to perform the music than when I feel out of my depth.

I don't really see how using SMART is adopting the tools of business, I thought it was an educational strategy? I tend to see these things as guidelines for the organic process of development rather than a straitjacket anyway, just ways of looking at things.

Definitely agree, there, Bilbo, If you're a late starter, it's encouraging to know that age and experience can provide you with greater powers to organise your practice time efficiently. One disadvantage is the amount of time late starters might have to pursue these goals as well as lack of youthful confidence to pursue your dreams.

While I understand that the practical value of learning two-handed tapping, crazy fast stuff etc is close to nil in developing as an employable musician, the process of emulating performances you admire armed only with enthusiasm is actually a pretty crucial one in the eventual development of musical knowledge (see 'Thinking in Jazz' by Paul Berliner and 'How Popular Musicians Learn' by Lucy Green). I think having the persistence to work on difficult rhythms and refine your ear to emulate a performance can help pique the curiosity needed to reach that next level of musical comprehension. Having a good teacher to help your analyse the value of what you're practicing and help put these things into the context of real musical understanding is invaluable.

In my own practice, I'm always striving for a kind of effortlessness (inspired by David Berkman's excellent book 'The Jazz Musician's Guide to Creative Practice' which borrows some concepts from Kenny Werner) I rarely practice fast or difficult to perform passages but aim for accuracy and consistency in performing very simple things, which gradually build up to more complex things. It's quite hard to explain that concept to a young, enthusiastic musician but hopefully the teacher/student relationship is the perfect way to harness both age and experience and youthful experience and marry the best features of those approaches.

I feel I'm veering slightly off the original post but I think as Bilbo said the choice of objective is absolutely key. One of my objectives for some time has been to play an improvised 12-bar blues line, perfectly in time to the metronome on all four beats at 120bpm, with absolutely consistent sound. This is actually practicing more than one thing at once but the focus is on the timing and sound rather than choice of notes. This is definitely something that I would have considered easy five years ago but the fact was I wasn't aware of the fact that my sound could be somewhat better (I work on that separately as well with the open strings) and my timing was not absolutely correct. Part of being able to practice well is being totally honest with yourself and ruthless, but only about the primary thing that you're practicing!

I have a Garbo G & D, where abouts are you?

I did a recording last weekend on a friend's H2, I'll post a link if anyone's curious (don't want to thread hijack!)

Very nice. Who are you playing with?

Cool. Say Trousers says hello!

Is this because of neighbours complaining? I'd go and talk to them and agree a time when you can practice, then they know. You may find having your practice time restricted makes your practice a lot more focused. When you're practicing you should be building up your sound, so I don't think using a mute is going to do your tone production any favours.

Huw Vaughan Williams seconded, he lives in London but is in Bangor (where he's from) quite a bit. PM me if you want his number.

Got to agree, no split! I like the fact we've all got our own little niches in this forum and can talk about the instrument irrespective of being in genre camps. The double bass is far too noble an instrument in my opinion to not want to celebrate it whenever it's needed. I've really enjoyed the fact that playing both double bass and electric bass has given me jazz gigs, classical gigs, folk gigs, blues gigs, rock gigs, latin gigs, musical theatre gigs...
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PM sent

It's been in vogue for a little while now, ten years or so. Personally, I always cringe when I see a looper on someone's pedalboard (particularly acoustic guitarists) because you know you're going to get the same repeated riff for a whole song and no development...

Could be quite useful for practice, but call me old fashioned, I prefer playing with other people to playing with myself...

Ok here we go... lengthy post (and bear in mind my views may be a little blunt but I'm just trying to communicate as realistically as possible my perceptions) I am also from the South West, Cornwall specifically.

I went to Goldsmiths for my undergrad (2005-2008) and studied privately with Simon Woolf who lives nearby. It's also very close by Trinity where there's a good community of jazz students and home to the Amersham Arms which has recently been programming some high quality jazz gigs. I loved living in London at the time and going to see big names at the gigs etc.

I regret now that I didn't get more involved in the jazz scene in London and go to jams etc. but then I was only just starting out with jazz at the time. In my naive way I have gradually made up for it, though I would say the key thing is get stuck in, talk to people at gigs, avoid being in awe of great players as they are people too and normally pretty down to earth. Don't just go to big name gigs but go to jams and little gigs etc.

I did my masters at Royal Welsh College (2010-2012). The standard at Welsh College has got considerably better in recent years and there is a reasonable local scene. The local gigs I don't really believe what's posted above about loads of work for bass players, you're basically either 'in' or 'out' and the same people tend to be in the same bands. Ironically it's much easier to get onto a masters course (and the standard is lower) than the undergrad because of the selective nature of the undergrad course - they take on 6-8 musicians a year, i.e. one whole band, though there have been years with more than one drummer or bass player if people have dropped out. I feel the RWCMD course is very personalised - not much in the way of classes (but if you look at the history of jazz education, that's rarely anyone's main motivation for studying jazz) but with a good core of 1 to 1 tuition (with some very good tutors, especially Nick Weldon, Iain Ballamy, Huw Warren, Martin France, Dave Cliff, Geoff Simkins) and a culture of improvement among the students themselves (important!). I attended as a postgraduate but mostly hung with the undergrads as they were more serious about practicing (many of the post grads were doing it to get the qualification) hanging out and jamming etc. Where the course falls down is maybe the over emphasis on 'creativity' as opposed to simply getting your s*** down and learning to play changes etc. I feel that's why some of the RWCMD graduates I've heard who studied a while ago lacked the basic skills I would expect from a jazz player. The situation has changed a lot in recent years, mainly because the quality of students entering is higher and some students encouraged a fashion for studying with (and occasionally doing gigs with) top players from London.

I'm still in Cardiff but doing teacher training and a bit out of the loop in terms of going to gigs, hanging with musicians etc. This is a key thing that maybe isn't mentioned when thinking about where you're going to study but it's important to actually be part of a community (that's what gets you gigs!) and I can testify to the fact that now I'm not seen at the gigs and in the pub I'm not getting booked for gigs! So in that sense Cardiff and Birmingham may be better places than London if you're less well off, due to the considerably smaller cost of living.

Now onto my perceptions of other colleges. This is 2nd or third hand knowledge mainly.

I have a few friends at Birmingham Conservatoire and I've visited once. They take on a much larger cohort than RWCMD (something like 30 in a year) and have a very good group of tutors. In terms of bass there are the excellent Mark Hodgson and Arnie Somogyi teaching bass plus trumpeter and sometimes bassist Percy Pursglove. Dave Holland also visits twice a year (and gives all the bass students a half hour lesson). The larger cohort means it may be harder to stand out, but I hear there's something of a shortage of bassists from my mates. Another key feature of having more musicians are more jamming opportunities, a more varied scene (not so much of the same faces, though ultimately every college has its 'go to guys') and the opportunity to put together larger ensembles. Birmingham isn't the prettiest place but perhaps because of that, gigs locally seem to have a large number of students there (less 'bailing' than is typical of Welsh College) and a stronger sense of community than Welsh Coll. The overall thrust of the course in general is more 'straight-ahead' than Welsh College and students who come out of Birmingham tend to be pretty hot changes players as its considered an essential element of the course (and in my opinion, that is no bad thing)

I have friends at RAM, Trinity and Guildhall as well. The main thing with London colleges are their high entry standards. RAM takes on 5-8 students a year and is fed mostly by students from its junior course. Trinity attracts many of the RAM hopefuls and has a fearsome reputation on entry standards (my very good pianist friend was a bit gutted he didn't get in but he's really happy he went to Birmingham now). Most entries to these colleges are not 18 years old, as the standard is simply too high and people re-apply!
Guildhall is something of a special case as you would be required to study classical double bass alongside jazz. Could be useful but personally I don't necessarily feel studying both is necessary and it's bound to put off some fine players. You can audition on electric bass (at least Tom Farmer did and look at him now) but the standard is again fearsome.

Leeds has developed something of a reputation as the poor man's choice of music college (though so has Welsh Coll and trust me, the standard is impressive) though I know some impressive players who are at or went to Leeds. Many go on to study post grad at London colleges. They take on a lot of students and the standard varies I believe. Leeds is very cheap to live in and has a lot of good music on.

I think the key thing to bear in mind with all these places is that while many young musicians obsess about which college they can get into, once you're in the professional world it matters very little where you went or even if you went to a college at all. There's no reason that you can't access the tutors at the various colleges and get private lessons (and I would recommend you do really if you want a good chance of getting into a college) and indeed the main reason for getting onto a course is that the government will fund you to get lessons and practice for 3-4 years, with other musicians to inspire you and create music with you! Going on an undergraduate music course, like I did, is not a bad option especially if you're streetwise about who you can get lessons with in the local area and go out and seek fellow musicians. Plenty of professional musicians (saxophonist George Crowley is an example) do an undergrad at university in another subject while studying their instrument hard and then go onto postgraduate study at a London college.

If, like a lot of us, you're mad keen on jazz and can't imagine yourself doing anything else than I would do the following things:

1. Get a lesson with a tutor at a London college (go and see a gig while you're up there): Steve Watts would be a good choice. Or if you have a local jazz club, try and get lessons with visiting bass players

2. Audition for every single college you can and see how you do.

3. If you're not accepted by any, keep practicing and try again.

4. If you get accepted by a college, but not the one you really want, then you need to weigh up that decision. My friend didn't get into Trinity, RAM, Guildhall or Birmingham when he was in Year 13 auditioning. The next year after a year of practice he got accepted by all of them and chose RAM. Alternatively, take the example of my other friend who was dead set on a London college. He doesn't regret that he accepted his offer from Birmingham. I still believe he's on course to have a great career because he's worked hard while studying at Birmingham.

Sorry for the length of the post but I thought my perspective might be helpful and hopefully fairly realistic. Good luck!

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That is very efficient! Here's my teacher Simon Woolf doing a sly changeover with a bit of left hand pizz. Simon's a Slam Stewart devotee I know. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTp_NohGb4E

The Jazz Bass Book by John Goldsby is a good one for finding out about the history of the instrument. I don't find the exercises at the back that useful. Same goes for the Evolving Bassist, not a huge fan of the exercises though it has some good insights on how to play the instrument. The Ray Brown book is quite nice, I use it from time to time, again I don't see it as necessarily 'how to play the bass' but good stuff to develop your technique.

I think the Mike Downes book is pretty good in analysing how bass lines work and as for classical the Keith Hartley books are quite good for getting you playing some tunes with the bow. Sevckik is amazing but heavy, heavy stuff, standard practice material for classical players.

Personally speaking for a complete beginner, I'd say go to a teacher. All these books can be rather overwhelming imo, a teacher will help you break stuff down. If you want to learn how to construct bass lines then get transcribing as soon as possible (it's also fabulous ear training and will help you improve your time by playing along to records)

I don't get to see a teacher very often at the moment but I'm doing a lot of playing along to records to get the vibe and detailed transcription to get the language. I also recommend 'The Serious Jazz Practice Book' by Barry Finnerty, nothing to do with bass but very good for getting to know your instrument and hearing different intervals. It's essentially a very comprehensive scale book with 1000s of different scale and arpeggio studies written out in C for you to transcribe into every key. Great warm up material and a lifetime of melodic ideas in there.

I will be moving to Leicester in the near future if you're interested in getting some pointers.

My ex housemate, who's a manager at one of the stores, just told me. It's his birthday as well, natch. Though he's already had offers from five companies who want him to work for them. My experience of buying from DV has been nothing but positive in the past, I think it's just a sign of the times.