Ramirez

14 minutes ago, Owen said:

Great, now a preamp which did look interesting looks like it would be really interesting with extra bits. Thanks for that.

Ha! You're welcome to borrow one (or two...) if you want to try. I have 2x Camden 500 modules in a small chassis that's not seeing too much use at the moment (another four are in the main studio rack, and the EC1 goes wherever I go to solve all the unpredictable of mic pre/DI/reamping/monitoring problems I face from day to day!). A few days ago it was 'reamping' a real Steinway grand piano through a rotary speaker pedal in an opera recording on location... you can't do with that with all those other great bass preamps !

15 hours ago, Sibob said:

Some interesting thoughts, I’ll pass them on 🙂

 

Si

Great!

Hard to know what could be lost from the EC1 though - I've certainly found all the headphone mixer options and inputs useful in various in-ear monitoring scenarios.

The CAST is probably a bit redundant for performing bassists so could be dropped... but having said that, I've used that on stage with an N22 too!

4 minutes ago, Beedster said:

 

Mic is the only way to make an upright sound like a louder upright

Quite. That holds true for any acoustic instrument. But sometimes a pickup is the practical solution if a mic causes other issues. And if I had an upright pickup that gave me that sound I posted, I'd be very happy!

Does this cut your mustard?

It's a cheap Harley Benton Beatbass fretless 😁! I fitted a very cheap piezo pickup (not a bass specific one) that I found in the shed, and ran it through an upright IR in Helix.

Annoyingly, it sounds more convincing than a pickup on my real upright...

Well, it isn't a double bass at all - it's a cheap Harley Benton Beatbass fretless and a cheap old piezo pickup I found in the shed, though an upright bass IR on a Line 6 Helix.

If I'm being honest, I'm unable to get a sound that's nearly as convincing from a pickup with my real upright! - my Krivo pickup sounds more 'electric', and the piezo doesn't work as well either. Ho-hum...

Thanks both.

I'll admit, there's a twist in this tale, which is why I'm not yet being specific - I'll wait for a few more opinions on the sound!

Aled

Right,

I've been messing around with pickups and mic for live use, and I think I've found something decent. Would you be happy sending this sound to FOH?

(Mind my intonation 🫢!)

On 01/06/2024 at 07:04, steviedee said:

I’m keen to try the link out to a little valve amp I have and record a clean from the EC1 and an overdriven tone from the amp.

Worth a try, but the 'Cream' setting on the Camden beats most amps for drive for my taste!

The 'Thump' is very good on clean bass though - it does something very nice. And try it in conjunction with the HPF - if you use a lot of Thump, the HPF can tame it in a nice way without stealing all your bottom end.

It's also a great IEM mixer.

I doubt we're a sizeable market for Cranborne, but a bass-specific version would be absolutely brilliant (and would be very appealing to any number of live acoustic instruments too)

*Two blendable inputs, with at least one of them switchable between mic and Hi-Z for double bassists (though I think you could do this with an EC2),

*Independent Thump and Cream controls (I often use two Camden 500 in series on bass in the studio, one on Thump and one on Cream)

*Slightly more gig friendly form factor

*9v outputs for tuner/other pedals

*Perhaps some extra magic sauce derived from the new Carnaby units (I'm really tempted with the stereo rack version of this for the studio!)

The 500 ADAT racks almost tick all the boxes for me too, brilliantly thought out, but a couple of drawbacks makes it unsuitable for my need (mainly that you can't select ADAT as source for the headphone amps, and that there's no independent access to the A/D and D/A stages - everything is tied to the 500 slots.)

Aled

Fantastic box - I have an EC1 and 4x Camden 500 preamps. It’s an absolutely wonderful bass preamp ond top of being a top quality mic pre, studio processor, headphone amp, etc etc etc…

If I ever start gigging double bass again it will definitely be my rig, be it with a mic or a pickup (though you can’t blend between the two to send to FOH)

Good to hear!

14 minutes ago, JPJ said:

I don’t disagree, but if you don’t gain stage correctly at each point in your signal chain you will eventually run into trouble (something I learned early on running PA for various bands). With the EBS, I feel/felt like I had too little gain at the start of my chain and that the peak light was almost permanently on even at moderate settings despite the output sounding ‘weak’. .

Well yes, that’s exactly the point I’m making. Gain staging is crucial in order to get the best from each stage in the chain. If your peak light is permanently on, then you have too much gain - the light responds to the level going through, not to the actual physical position of the control.

You need to set your gain so that the peak light does not come on. If the output is sounding ‘weak’ (can you elaborate on this?) then turn up your monitor volume (or amp, however you use it), or you might need a little gain at the mixing desk to bring it up to operating level there. The gain level will not make your bass sound weak by itself- it’s just to set a healthy working level for your signal, loud enough to be noise-free, and quiet enough to avoid clipping/distortion. It’s not an ‘effect’.

If the lights are on, you simply have too much gain.

On 28/05/2024 at 10:01, JPJ said:

I feel that the gain is so low that I’m actually missing something from my tone.

. 

The entire gain range is there to be used, so that’s no problem. In a well designed circuit the gain does not change your tone (obviously, circuits designed to deliberately overdrive/distort behave differently) It is simply clean gain, designed to optimise your signal level for the next stage.

Your gain has a wide range in order to cater for difference in output between different basses, as you’ve found. Just set it accordingly.

Regarding the separate EQ and HPF thing - a quicker/more practical solition might be to apply a HPF to your aux output instead (effectively cutting the lows out of everything in your IEMs, rather than just the bass), and let the FOH subs fill in thay low end, retaining clarity in your IEMs. Less hassle to set up than splitting your bass channel to two channels on the desk, and possibly more effective too.

9 minutes ago, Owen said:

Ouch.

Quite. Though it did involve a posh new set of strings, as well as a lot of work on the fingerboard, nut, bridge and soundpost. My guess is I'll be brilliant and famous by this time next week then. Happy days.

Well, the bill came out to more than I paid for the bass… in fact it’s more than I’ve ever paid for any instrument… so a new one is not on the cards for a while!

Now to take it seriously again… picking it up tomorrow hopefully.

I've used IEMs exclusively for the past couple of years, and have no desire to go back to monitors if at all possible.

When my originals band did a theatre tour, wed took our own system and engineer with us (and no support, so no changeovers!), so we had sorted mixes in rehearsals, and they were saved for every show (Allen & Heath SQ5 system). For festivals / other gigs, I've sorted an IEM rack for us using my Soundcraft UI24R, using splits if provided at festival, or bringing our own if not.

We've just done a couple of shows where our IEMs were mixed by the festival sound crew during very quick changeovers - far from ideal, but still better than poor monitors.

For me, the advantages are consistency, hearing protection and less to carry as I don't use an amp (I use a HX Stomp). Personally I enjoy the isolation, though I accept many struggle with it. It focuses me, and since I can hear myself properly, I play better. And personally, I'll do anything to make the sound/show better for the audience rather than myself- I don't care about the 'pleasures' of having a bass amp moving air behind me if it causes problems elsewhere.

For me, the enjoyment comes from delivering something to the audience, and my bass is just part of that package - the whole thing needs to be delivered as one thing, and as good as possible. I don't really get pleasure from 'just' playing bass - I get it from playing a part in a cohesive ensemble that's delivering something for an audience to enjoy. It's about sharing a moment, as it were. Of course, that's perfectly possible without IEMs, but in my experience both on stage and behind the mixer, and from mixing recordings of our shows the sound is usually much cleaner and better if the band are on IEMs, so the whole show benefits.

I'd argue that maybe, perhaps, just possibly that a very good monitor mix in a good sounding venue is more exciting than playing with IEMs, but that's a rare thing, and I'd rather have consistency from gig to gig - and the worst I've had with IEMs was still a 1000 times better than the worst I've played with monitors.

16 hours ago, Owen said:

You will probably not be eating for a while

Well, by the sound of it there'll be plenty of wood shavings for me to eat anyway....

I’m glad to hear positive reports on these… In had one and I didn’t like it all!

I wanted to like it- nice build, nice price, nice look, and the gain reduction LED is a really nice touch. But for me, it took something away from the sound (I only tried it with my Jazz, I think). It wasn’t the compression characteristics as such, but tonally it took a big part of what I like about the Jazz away. I can only use silly meaningless adjectives, but it took away the slight ‘chewiness/stickyness’ that I like in my Jazz. Something in the upper midrange.

That’s just me though - the same effect could very easily be complimentary to other basses and playing styles.

Well, the bass had been sent to the doc… quite a lot of work needed!

And a hefty estimate too, as expected. I don’t think I’ll be looking at a new bass for a while!

7 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

 

Surely overkill, given the OP's brief..? A splendid mic, I've no doubt, but there's a long way to go in home recording before its qualities come to the fore, I'd suggest. If money's no object, fine, but is it the case here..? 

I agree to a point, but my post only suggested this if the posted saw this as something long term. And if he decided to sell, they'd make a good chunk of the money back on an M88 (especially if they bought used!)

A good budget all-rounder is the Rode M3. I'd lean towards a small-diaphragm rather than a large-diaphragm as their off-axis colouration are usually much better, so any spill/room reflections will not sound as nasty. Also they are inherently more accurate/neutral sounding, so can be a good fit for a variety of sources.

If you think this is something you'll want to build on in the future with more equipment, more mics etc. then I'd suggest it's worth spending a little more to get a properly good all-rounder - I'd suggest a Beyerdynamic M88. It'll do a good job on pretty much anything, and it'll always be useful even if you buy more nice mics in the future. A cheap mic, on the other hand, will probably have no use when you have better options, and will have next to no resale value if you want to sell it! 

I do agree with @fretmeister though - I'd be tempted to go direct with any electric guitar/bass recording and use plugins. I often do this out of choice in the studio as well, despite having a wonderful, large controlled recording room, nice amps and lovely mics! 

Thank you both.

Well, the plan is to get the Stentor fixed up and for me to start taking things seriously again, then see how it goes. I'm also hoping to drag @Owen in for a second opinion!

I don't see myself playing pubs etc.

I run a commercial recording studio, so it would most probably spend most of its time there, with the occasional theatre tour thrown in.

I do know what I want to a certain extent... namely because every DB I pick up that's not my own sounds better and is much easier to play than mine!

Maybe a fairly new used bass would be a good option if it comes to it... some nice things seem to pop up in the classifieds here!

I'm thinking of picking up the old DB again, after neglecting it for a good while.

My current cheap Stentor Conservatoire is in dire need of a set-up, so that's the first call, but I can see myself being tempted to sell it on and buying a better model if all goes well.

I'm drawn towards buying a brand new bass instead of used - does £5k get me a considerable upgrade on the Stentor (bearing in mind they seem to be over £2k new now!)?

What are your recommendations?

Aled

Sold!

Hi all,

I'm sure this will be of no interest to most (all?) of you, but we'll be having an online 'listening party' to launch our new album on February 28th, 7pm.

https://crhb.bandcamp.com/merch/mynd-r-t-am-dro-listening-party

It's alt country / Americana / Neil Youngish type stuff, so hopefully someone somewhere will enjoy it!

Aled