TripleB67

Well, I must say, my original thread has taken off on a tangent I never expected!

I think I'll be content with my $130 Yamaha bass, $90 Ampeg amp, and playing songs I enjoy playing (and my family can recognize)!

TripleB67

I was looking at the various bass guitars that are around the same original price point of my Yamaha RBX170Y ($200US) and noticed that many of them have a 28.6" or 30" neck scale....usually with 20 or 24 frets.

Made me wonder:

1) what are the advantages of the shorter scale length? 

2) what are the disadvantages of the shorter scale length?

3) as someone just starting out would it have been better for me to start with the 28.6"/30" instead of the 34" on my Yamaha...and do the number of frets make a difference?

Thank you for your input!!!

TripleB67

On 11/10/2018 at 12:41, dmccombe7 said:

Bass is detuned to Eb on that album just in case you were trying to learn it straight from the album. Think this was Geezer at his very best. Pretty sure it was a custom Jaydee bass he used on it.

Dave

Any other BS albums where the bass is an incredible as it is with H&H?  I just can't get enough of this album....I never paid much attention to anything by Black Sabbath after about '77.  Thanks!!!!!

TripleB67

1 minute ago, bakerster135 said:

I personally think Lateralus is the more 'classic' Tool bass album, but Justin was definitely in full on Digitech Bass Whammy usage mode which gives so much depth to tracks like Lateralus (07:21 for gratuitous use), Disposition (most of the track) and, most notably, Schism, which in itself has some pretty anthemic bass parts. 

I love 10,000 Days though, Rosetta Stoned and The Pot especially, though I think it scores a little more highly on the swear factor! 

Thanks!!!

Listening to Mr. Big's first CD right now (through headphones of course)....I thought Sheehan was amazing before - now I am pretty sure he is a god!!!

TripleB67

On 10/10/2018 at 12:30, uk_lefty said:

Pearl Jam, Ten. 

Never realized it was so prevalent until I listened to it through headphones today.....brings a whole new life to this CD!!!!  Thanks!

On 10/10/2018 at 04:36, paul_5 said:

Lateralus or 10,000 Days by Tool or anything by Charles Mingus.

Which is the better of the two CDs by Tool?  I've listened to a little of each....much profanity in either?

TripleB67

13 hours ago, visog said:

Rush-wise I'd go Moving Pictures for their best balance of songs, bass tone and musicianship.

That's what I thought as well....however, after listening to Black Sabbath's H&H, the bass part in Moving Pictures wasn't as easy for me to find as the bass line in H&H...but then again, maybe it's because I'm always distracted by Peart's drums 😀

TripleB67

On 10/10/2018 at 04:50, dmccombe7 said:

If you are more into Rock albums with lyrics try Black Sabbath Heaven and Hell. Some great clear bass lines on there.  Dave

On 10/10/2018 at 05:05, Coilte said:

To get a real flavour of the bass work, it would be best to listen with ear phones

Working my way through the tremendous list everyone has posted...starting with the CDs I already own.

The combination of the two items above...listening to H&H through headphones...blew me away!!! 🤯

The bass on this entire CD is just so clear and amazing----I was in awe of the playing (and how much clearer and better it sounds when listening through headphones and just concentrating on the bass line)!!!

Cannot wait to listen to many of the other recommendation found here.....I think early Whitesnake will be my next listening experience!

TripleB67 

First let me say I've only been playing the bass for about two weeks now and already feel like it's the instrument I've been looking for throughout the past 31 years (since I was 20 and thought I wanted to learn to play the 6 sting guitar).  I absolutely love picking it up and practicing/playing....it's absolutely amazing!

I would like to find some new music to listen to in which you can actually hear (and feel) the bass guitar and it's prevalence within the music.  Groups I listen to where I feel like the bass guitar is a major contributor are Rush (Lee) and Mr. Big (Sheehan).  To be honest I listen to about every type of music (that doesn't have much profanity...just so I don't have to filter it around my 11 year old), but definitely prefer music with lyrics!

So, what are some of your favorite cds/bands that make the bass guitar an integral part of the music?

Thanks!

TripleB67

On 05/10/2018 at 14:16, Oopsdabassist said:

Yamaha and Ampeg as a starter kit? you are living the dream mate! I love my Yams and the 4 stringer is an old beater, but still my 'go to' bass when gigging!

Awesome....glad to hear I did well to start out with!

Fantastic pic!!!!!!

TripleB67

2 hours ago, Reggaebass said:

 You can overthink these things just get some solid 

I tend to do that with new things...just trying to make sure I don't pick up any bad habits when starting out 😀

The method I described above (that I thought was the "floating thumb") was actual what Scott calls his "hybrid" style in this video.

Again, thanks for all the help!

TripleB67

On 05/10/2018 at 02:54, Delberthot said:

Some tuners, including some fitted to a bass amp, aren't sensitive enough to hear the E string, let alone the B so I've had to do this in the past.

Regarding the thumb, as per Newfoundfreedom's post, do what feels comfortable to you. there is no right or wrong. Depending on the bass I will use either the pickup or the E string, sometimes both

Interestingly, my Korg TM-60 tuner had absolutely no problem picking up the E string...must be a problem with my phone since neither app I tried was able to pick it up.

On 05/10/2018 at 03:07, Norris said:

I tend to anchor my thumb on the top edge of the pickup. There are many who will espouse "floating thumb" technique, which is probably better for extended range basses (5, 6 or more strings). As has been said, whatever is most comfortable for you. Try not to press too hard if you're going to use the pickup - you might press it into the body reducing the response from the E string, or worse still induce stress in your thumb. It should be used as a point of reference rather than an "anchor"

Your next challenge will be damping the strings you are not playing. I tend to use both hands to do that, although it's not something I've done consciously, so I'd have difficulty explaining how I do it - I don't know! 

I tried several different areas of thumb placement today as I practiced with my bass for about 75 minutes.  I think if my split neck pick ups were reversed, the top one to the right of the bottom one (if looking down on the bass while playing), then I could anchor my thumb there.  Resting my thumb on the E string is probably what is going to work best for me right now because I like plucking the strings between the neck and bridge pick up for the simple fact that I don't have to worry about hitting the pickups while plucking....and my arm/hand feel comfortable at that position.  Anchoring my thumb on the front split pickup seems to add some stress to my hand that doesn't need to be there.

But resting it on the string above the string I'm trying to play (ie: resting it on the A string when plucking the D string, resting it on the D string when plucking the G string, resting it on the E string when plucking the A string, and resting basically in the air when playing the E string) felt really comfortable as well.  Not sure how that will work when I start playing faster but for right now it felt pretty comfy.    

I found out what you mean about damping the strings I'm not playing.  At the end of my practice I looked for a super easy song intro for bass and stumbled upon Eye of the Tiger by Survivor.  I only learned the first 10 notes but at times I could hear the G string "rattling" through my amp...and I was taking it slow in order to make sure I got the notes right and didn't accidentally hit any other strings.  Definitely going to have to work on a technique for that!

TripleB67 

56 minutes ago, EssentialTension said:

When you say 'sitting beside the guitar' do you mean tuning via the tuner's microphone and not plugged in with a lead? If so, then the clip-on tuner will be more effective. But the 'use the harmonic' advice is good.

Yes, via the tuner's microphone (through my phone with the two apps I tried or with the Korg 60).  Not plugged in.

Thanks!

So as to not to start another thread: After learning the basics, is it best for a beginner to learn notes (as with the original Hal Leonard Bass Method books) or to learn to read tablature?

Although I'm learning through videos right now, I would sort of like to have a book as well....just trying to figure out if I should order one that has me learn through notes or one that starts out with tablature.

TripleB

10 hours ago, Delberthot said:

If your tuner is having trouble with the E then play the harmonic on the 12th fret by lightly touching the E string right over the 12th fret an pluck the string.  Some tuners, including some fitted to a bass amp, aren't sensitive enough to hear the E string, let alone the B so I've had to do this in the past.

Is a tuner attached to the bass (such as a Snark SN-5) any more effective than one sitting beside the guitar? 

TripleB67

In my first post someone mentioned you all like to see pics of gear...so here is my very first bass and amp (at age 51).  Yamaha RBX170Y and Ampeg BA108V2...both new for a total of $220!

If you didn't read my first post, here's a quick summary: I've tried the six string electric three times throughout my life with the longest stint being about two months.  It just never felt right....everything felt so mechanical.  I bought another six string (4th time is the charm right) last Thursday...haven't taken it out of the box.  While at the grand opening of the store I was listening to about ten people playing six strings all at the same time and it was so painful to my ears.  But off to the side there were two gentlemen playing the bass by feel (it seemed to me anyway) and just feeding off each other.  At that moment I realized that was what was missing every time I tried the six string....it felt so mechanical....I've been wanting an instrument that was more about feel!  Two days later I picked up the RBX170Y for $130 and the day after that the BA108V2 for $90!!

The question I have before I move on to my second day of playing is: where is the best place to have my right thumb while I'm plucking the strings?

I see some rest it on the upper edge of a pickup, others on the E string, and others allow it to move up and down along the strings depending on which string they're plucking.

I want to start out doing it the "best" way so I don't learn a bad habit that will eventually have to break.  So, which of those places is best for my right thumb placement?

Today I watched a beginner video that showed resting it on the E string.  This felt pretty natural for me (with 2 finger plucking) but I did feel like I was pushing down on the E string slightly.  I did a quick try resting my thumb on the top edge of the split pick up and also on the bridge pickup...it seemed to work fine but didn't feel as natural as resting on the E string and plucking the area right between the neck and bridge pickup.

One last newbie question: is it tough to tune the E string?  Both of my tuner amps had a hard time picking it up.  I'm try my Korg TM-60 tuner tomorrow to see if it will pick it up easier.

Although I would like to know about right thumb placement, the main reason for the post is that I wanted to make sure I said thanks to everyone who took the time to respond to my first post!  Your help was instrumental (bad pun intended) in making sure I got the best newbie bass and amp I could afford!!!  You can't believe how excited I am to start this bass learning journey!

TripleB67

Anyone hear me playing my first notes about an hour ago??? 🤣

I watched a few videos and haven't played anything except what was in this video, which was basically just learning how to pluck the strings, but I'm already having a blast!!!!

I see some people resting their thumb on the top of the pick up, but for me it feels most comfortable resting it on the E string (which is a beast to tune, at least with my two tuner apps - I'll try my Korg 60 tuner in a little) right in between the split pickups and the bridge pickups...hopefully this isn't starting me with a bad habit?

Ain't she a beaut?  Well, probably not to you all veterans...but for a beginner who ended up putting about $220 into guitar and amp, she is gorgeous!!!!

TripleB67

3 hours ago, Japhet said:

Familiarise yourelf with the deadly affliction known as GAS. Gear Acquisition Syndrome (GAS) can strike at any time but the chances of it becoming deadly are greatly increased by regular visits to websites such as Basschat. 

I'm all too familiar with GAS!!!  It happened to me with tennis racquets (have played tennis 47 out of my 51 years on Earth; even microfracture knee surgery couldn't stop me)...I had one or two to start with, then about 8 years latter I look on my "computer room" walls downstairs and I have what you see in the pictures below....

I'm worried Bass Guitar GAS will hit me similarly, especially after I've had so many awesome posters reply to my very first post here!  But some things have changed since the tennis racquet collection days: now helping putting a daughter through college, 11 year old entered middle school and won't be through college until I'm at least 61, some of those racquets I picked up for under $35 (hard to find a bass for that price), and I spent all my extra money on racquets.

Unfortunately at bit of GAS hit me yesterday.  While trying out the amps the guy asked me who my favorite guitarist was and I said Geddy Lee...so he goes over to the wall, picks up a Geddy Lee signature model bass, hands it to me, and says, "try the amps using this guitar."  🤩 I was in awe!!!!!

But, for now, I'll be happy with my $220 combination of Yamaha RBX170Y bass and Ampeg BA108V2 amp...which I feel is a great starter combo at a pretty good price!!!  But someday....a Billy Sheehan or Geddy Lee model will be mine!!!!!!!!!

TripleB67

2 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

The 'looks' have their place, but, in musical instruments generally, it's the sound that matters most, and that's what to judge on firstly. As has been stated above, the positioning of that pickup looks to be intentional, and should be listened to, through experiences ears, before coming to any conclusions. If it's not too late, I'd say 'Don't touch anything at all, just play it' for a while (at least several weeks...), and have someone experienced, trustworthy and competent advise on any reflections you might have before taking any action at all. There's little in a bass such as yours which will require attention for quite some while, as it is a fine instrument, able to give satisfaction 'out of the box', yet still be 'tweakable' once one has enough experience to know what's best for oneself. Play it through your new amp, and enjoy your first steps on a long and fruitful path, in full confidence that you're on safe ground. Don't try to run yet; it's the fastest way to trip up. Slow, steady, sure... You've made some excellent choices up to now; keep that up and you'll go far. 

That's great to know!

Just looking at most of the bass guitars on the wall of the music store yesterday, it seemed like most of them had pickups that were pretty level.  Then when I got home and saw that that one split pick up was a lot closer (very easy to see on the first pic above) to the A string than the G string (even though the G string is thinner), I was a bit concerned. The top split looked like what I was expecting, the full bridge pick up looked like what I was expecting, but the bottom split pick up looked awkward.

Thanks to you and everyone for the help!

TripleB67

Thanks again for all the help!

Went today to listen to the various amps the local store had in stock and narrowed it down to three amps: Fender Rumble 25 ($100), Acoustic B15 ($100), and Ampeg BA108V2 ($90).  After having a store rep play all three I quickly narrowed it down to the Fender and the Ampeg.  After having him play everything from the Beatles to Gn'R to Rush to Metallica to some blues, and then him going back and forth between the Fender and Ampeg about 4 times (I'm sure he was thinking "it's only a $100 amp, not a $1000 amp"), it was a VERY tough call, but because of clarity of sound (at least to my newbie ear), I went with the Ampeg BA108V2 for $90. 

But the Fender was right there with it and if it would have been a different day I may have felt it was better (it was that close).  I'll give this Ampeg a workout for 40 days and then should know if it is the one or if I should go back and get the Fender Rumble 25 (or maybe one will go on a great sale by then).  Although since I had purchased my amp more than 45 days ago (I think it was more like 90 days ago) I had to pay a $18.99 return fee when I returned my old one.  But I think it will be definitely worth it!!!

Since I've now got an amp I finally got my Yamaha bass out to go over it very carefully.  Everything looks (haven't plugged it up yet, family first) great except possibly the positioning of the split pick ups.  The one closest to the neck looks pretty good and the full one near the bridge looks about perfect, but the split one in between the two looks way off.  It's got like 6 or 7 mm of space between it and the G string but heading towards the A string there is like 3mm of space.  

I've tried to attach a few different angle pics so you can see what I'm talking about. 

Do I need to try and adjust that pick up so there is a more consistent space between the it and the strings on both ends of it?  If so, what's the safest and best way to do so? 

I'm going to also try to attach a picture of the neck.  Although now that I see it posted, it's not a good picture.  But do the strings look the proper distance from the neck and does the neck look the correct shape?

I'm saving a full picture of my first bass guitar and first bass amp until I get them hooked up tomorrow! 😀

I appreciate all of your help!

TripleB67

5 hours ago, Monkey Steve said:

Conversely, playing a guitar through a bass amp is absolutely fine, and I know a couple of guitarists who prefer it as the sound tends to have much more depth

So if you have a bass guitar and a six string electric, but only one amp, it's better to have a bass amp?

TripleB67

1 hour ago, Monkey Steve said:

I don't think Acoustic is available in the UK so it's unlikely that many of us will have an opinion.

Interesting....I didn't realize that!

Another newbie question.  In comparing the Fender Rumble 25 to the Fender Rumble 15, I noticed that the 25 has two items that the 15 does not (other than more output): an 'Overdrive' button and a 'Contour' button.  What do these two items do?

Thanks!

TripleB67

I'm not sure which of these are available locally, but here are the bass amps that get very good reviews and can be had for under $100 new.  Two are from Fender and two are from Acoustic.  I've definitely heard of Fender, not much about Acoustic.

Fender Rumble 15 $80

Fender Rumble 25 $100

Acoustic B15 $70 (price matched)

Acoustic B30 $100 (price matched)

Again, brand new to bass guitar and will be playing in a finished basement (one room is about 10'x18'; the other is about 14'x30') just for myself (at least for now).

Thanks!

TripleB67

12 minutes ago, Unknown_User said:

Yes they do.  You can use a guitar amp, but I think that long term you might knacker it and it certainly won't give you the right sound for a bass.

So since I currently have a standard guitar amp, the Acoustic G20  (still new in box; paid $76.49), would you advise me to take it back and exchange it for something like the Fender Rumble 15 ... would it be adequate for home use to learn on?

I know they make a Fender Rumble 25 but would rather not put the extra money into it if I can get by with the Rumble 15 for a few years.

Thanks!

TripleB67

Again, I appreciate all the input, help, and advice.

One quick question (probably one you will laugh at): Do bass guitars require a specific type of amp?

I've got the following amp: Acoustic G20    I am guessing it won't work with my Yamaha bass guitar?  If not, is there a "cheap" (ie: under $100) bass amp that will be adequate to learn on?

Thanks again!

TripleB67

3 hours ago, Grangur said:

Hey @TripleB67,

Firstly, a big welcome to BC from another mature bass player. Actually, many of us here are the wrong side of 45, so you're in good company. You got a good deal on the bass there.

A good place to start learning is YouTube. You also won't spend long there before you come across Scott Divine and Scott's Bass Lessons.

Thanks...with all the replies I've gotten so far I'm obviously in the correct place to learn a lot!!!  Glad to hear I'm not the only over 45 bass player here....was definitely worried about being the "old guy."

Thanks for confirming my purchase---really had no clue what I was looking for in a bass but I had heard of Yamaha and it was regularly $200 on sale for $130, so I was hoping it would be a decent started bass for me to start out on.

I'll check into Scott's lesson....I may have already looked at one of his videos.  Does he wear a glove?  It wasn't really a bass video but a video of him explaining why he has to wear a glove when he plays - very likable guy.

I appreciate the input!

2 hours ago, Unknown_User said:

Good stuff, TripleB67!   There are also a million bass lessons or bass covers for songs on You Tube where you can learn from.  Just search for the song name followed by "bass cover" or "bass tab".  It's good to learn theory and such but sometimes you just want to play along with something for fun.  If you want something dead easy to play, maybe try Get Back by the Beatles or Summer of 69 by Bryan Adams, which are two I can think of off the top of my head which are easy ones to start off with.  

The main thing is to have fun with it.  It's all about the journey!

Thanks!

I appreciate you giving me a couple easy songs to start with.  While I'm going to take it slow and learn the basics correctly, I was hoping to find a song or two that were super easy so my practice time wouldn't be simply going through the basics.  My 11 year old son will be happy...the Beatles are his favorite band!  

I'm looking forward to this journey!!!!

2 hours ago, SubsonicSimpleton said:

Rethink your plan of never playing in a band - it isn't compulsory to play gigs if you want to enjoy playing music with other people, so discarding this as an option outright is limiting your experience. 

Right now it isn't so much the fact that I don't want to eventually play with others, it's the time (and life).

I've got a 21 year old daughter I'm helping put through college as well as an 11 year old so who is in 7th grade.  So if I do my math correctly my son will finally be out of college when I'm 61.  As well as a wonderful wife to keep happy 😀   So short term I don't see me in a band but maybe in the future when life slows down and I have more time to dedicate to playing.

I appreciate your help!

1 hour ago, Dropzone said:

Between pick and fingers, try both and see which suits your style of playing. You get a different sound from both and if you play a lot you will develop both styles.

Treat yourself to playing some simple riffs before diving in at the deep end of Rush and Mr Big. Think more root notes rather than tricky runs.

 

I think I actually like the freedom of using the fingers brings.  Obviously when I tried playing the six string I used a pick and I felt so rigid with my playing.  When I picked up that bass in the music store and played it with my fingers it felt so much better.  I'm not sure how many fingers you're supposed to use...for me two fingers felt natural but I don't want to start out with bad habits so I'll watch the videos.

Again, I appreciate all the help and advice so far!

TripleB67

Recently, at the age of 51, decided I wanted to learn how to play the six string guitar.  I have attempted to do so a couple times throughout my life, only sticking with it for about two months each time.  But I decided that this is the time I'm going to stick with it and learn the joys of playing guitar.

So I headed to the grand opening of a Guitar Center in my area (United States) and bought a new Epiphone LE Les Paul Special-I in worn cherry for $90 (father of 2, helping put 1 through college, extra funds are minimal). 

Went back to the GC the next day just to check out all they had because it was a mad house at the grand opening.  While there I heard 8 guys jamming on their six strings all at the same time....the sound was God awful!!!  But over on the side there were these two guys playing bass, jamming together, feeding off each other - it was just incredible!!!!

So I went back home and realized that maybe the reason I didn't stick with the six string each time I tried it was because I love the sound of the bass better----long time Geddy Lee fan and then a huge Billy Sheehan fan (still continuously listen to both Rush and Mr. Big).

So the next day I headed back to GC, got my nerve up, picked up a bass guitar (never held one before), plugged it in, turned on the amp, and it was almost like nirvana.  Something just felt right about a bass in my hands!

Went back home and thought long and hard about that six string downstairs and how that bass felt in my hand and the sounds I listen for when hearing music.  Played some Rush and some Mr. Big loudly...specifically listening for the bass part!

The last day of the GC specials I went back to GC, returned the Les Paul, and picked up a new Yamaha RBX170Y bass for $129.99!!!

I never plan to play in a band, will only play for my family, and learning/playing is just for my enjoyment...so it's not like I'm trying to be a pro, I just want to play for the love of it!

So, what advice would you give a 51 year old brand new bassist?  It could be about becoming a competent bassist, the instrument, learning the instrument, taking care of the instrument, or anything else related to the bass guitar.

Is there an online bass guitar teacher with a video series that would be great for a beginner?  Any books you'd recommend?

And one last specific question: from the few number of videos I have watched so far, it seems most instructors do not use a pick - so for someone brand new to playing a bass, would you advise to stay away from a pick as well (and learn using your fingers)?

edit: my music background is basically playing the tenor saxophone for 7 years from 6th grade until I finished high school (but haven't picked it up much since)

Thanks for any and all advice you can give....cannot wait to get started!!!!

TripleB67