Dudgeman

Current bi amp rig for Rock/metal covers band... Laney takes care of the lows in a big way...rest runs fun stuff. Spark is a new addition simply to boost level for my P bass as its output is way lower than my Jazz and Dingwall. Would like to swap out Demon FX pedals for DG originals but simply don't have the cash...and from my research pretty much sound identical...maybe one day. Apollo 2 phaser is a staggering pedal on guitar or bass.  Totally nails that Lizzy Alibi tone.... Chorus lands well for Sweet child of mine... B7k clone is set with low drive and really gets me the Harris clack along with p bass and flats. Octave used conservatively on Land of confusion ( disturbed) and lay down your love (Whitesnake) really thickens sound. Sheehan pedal ( my fav) for all the Mr Big/ winery dogs stuff...  I am trialling the Joyo battery power supply with this. No issues with charge times..it runs this lot for 4 hours plus... But to reduce anxiety levels at gigs I charge it in the gap between sets... No cables ..no ground loops... No earthing issues..  and cheap...and if you don't like it use it as a battery charger for your phone..it has usb out!  I ditched my George Ls to try Harley Benton solderless patch cables ..unbelievable value and am running 3 boards without a single issue ..the sockets are super compact as well. Have recommended to loads of people without issue...

On 13/02/2023 at 07:51, Ricky Rioli said:

Wondering how the OP's singer felt about the guitarist deciding to transpose a song up a semitone

He's a talented lad... But not sure he has realised......he used to front our Muse tribute so he can hit some pretty high notes... .. he breezes the Maiden/acdc stuff we do in this new band

35 minutes ago, paul_c2 said:

I think I'd get confused with too many different instruments in different tunings. I keep it simple for gigs - either normal tuning, or drop D. And if the tune uses drop D (it was always reading sheet music) I'd write clearly on it to tune to D. Then on the NEXT tune, write a note to retune!

Make no mistake it is an utter pain.. I generally just use my jazz with hipshot xtender ...it gets me through most stuff... I have a back up bass and an explorer purely for the Taking Dawn cover. If I'd known the guitarist was going to transpose GTFO I would have done the same thing...detuned...learnt it and then returned to standard with the band. It's what I did with the DC, Lizzy and Queen stuff they play that is either slowed down on the record or played in Eb. Never mind.... 

On 10/02/2023 at 22:15, Dan Dare said:

 

Exactly. I'm a bit mystified by this. Unless I'm reading it wrongly, the piece is going to be played in E. Most things are easier to play in E rather than Eb. The root becomes available in E. It would be far more challenging to learn something in E and then be required to transpose down a semitone to Eb.

I've learnt the tune in Eb using standard tuning with drop D. I could shift everything up a semi tone but in my considerable experience I know that, having run through the track over 20/30 times, I will make mistakes live.... I have been down this road before. We play taking Dawn's version of The Chain.... I have played the chain so many times over the last 20 years that the muscle memory is so ingrained I really struggle to change finger positions so I have a bass tuned to G just for that track. Also I have about 15 songs to learn for our next gig and don't really have the time to re learn GTFO a fret higher.....if it was a simple AC/DC song it would be different but there are numerous parts to this bass line for me to mess up. 😁

On 08/02/2023 at 11:05, Nail Soup said:

The OPs guitarist didn’t retune his instrument when he was with the band. He just detuned at home while learning the tune. Then back to std at band rehearsal.

Thats how I read it anyway.

Yes that's exactly it ... Which is a pain for me as learnt it as per record so my fingering is now going to be flat or more likely I will have to take another bass tuned up a half step.... And it with this bass that I will belt him over the head repeatedly until I feel justice is done. 😂😂

2 hours ago, Dood said:

Had he have learned the song from notation such as the version in Guitar Pro, he will have seen it notated in the key of E Major (4 sharps) but the guitars are indeed 'detuned' down a semi-tone, so maybe that's where the confusion lies?

Nope...the confusion lies because he's old and senile and has too many strings on his guitar.... He deserves all the mocking I can throw at him as I have known him for years and he keeps suggesting songs to do in E flat and constantly forgets to tell me at practice that he is playing it in standard tuning....😂😂..... Git......

Ladies and gents thanks for the answers and making me smile. My assumption, with my admittedly limited theory knowledge was , of course. I believe it would transpose from E flat major to E major in this case. .... His arguement was that as the fingering hadn't altered it was considered detuning rather than transposing... I love the old boy and he can now keep his theory and focus on his solo in GTFO. ..... Which he will absolutely nail because he is a hell of a guitarist.... Thanks all for the ridiculously smug smile on my face ...bass players rule

Hi

Hopefully just a quick one... If a guitarist learns a song with their guitar detuned to E flat to match a record (in this case Get the funk out by Extreme) and then re tunes to standard 440 to play live, and plays exactly the same chord shapes, have thy effectively altered the key? 

Hopefully someone with more knowledge than me can put this to rest for me. Thanks

2 minutes ago, jezzaboy said:

Standalone power amp I hear you say?  

 

 

Do you work for Google? All of my recent searches have been Crown xls1002 so I find your post slightly disturbing...😂😂😂😉 Wasn't sure if it would work well enough as I believe these are mainly hifi based but they do get great reviews. I did come across one guy who was using the crown to power his axe FX guitar rig.... The Axe took some tweaking but it sounded great into his 2 x12. Let me check the specs on your unit and I'll pm you. 

6 hours ago, fretmeister said:

I used to do the whole twin amp thing. Started with a pair of Marshall VBC412 cabs. One fed with an Ashdown head for the lows and the other with a Hartke HA3500 for the highs and FX / drive.

 

Then I went with this.

 

Ampeg SVP-BSP Billy Sheehan preamp and a Line 6 Bass Pod. They both had clean blends so I would actually combine 4 sounds and heavily EQ the drives to make them as EQ specific as I could.

 

Then into a Yamaha P5000S stereo power amp. Each preamp got it's own side of the power amp and each side went into it's own cab.

 

I sounded amazing and weighed about as much as a planet.

 

Now for even higher volumes (when I need them) I use a single Barefaced Super Twin and some pedals that have clean blends built in. Sometimes a Helix.

 

 

Sound tweaking heaven right there. But like me the oh the weight...😂😂. I know my 4 10 split cab probably shouldn't work as well as separates but either by dumb luck or listening to the advice Celestion have me it sounds really good and I can lift it with one arm.. and it's footprint is ideal for smaller venues. 

11 hours ago, Bolo said:

I'd get a boss LS2 or radial Di to mix the preamps together and send that to a fender rumble 800 or EBS reidmar 502 or other 2 Ohm amp.

Way easier to send that to the house desk or adjust your backline volume.

 

If you insist on dual amping, for which there is absolutely no reason imo, you could get two hartke or markbass units, or ampeg portaflexes. Anything 250w and up in parallel should be more than loud enough.

Thanks bolo.... I have an LS2 that I used to use to split an already split signal when doing the Muse tribute...it's a pedal no bassist should be without in my opinion..esp if you run multiple effects and need to blend.. But it still doesn't sound the same as 2 amps/ 2 cabs iny experience..Options I am looking at are standalone power amp... Or funnily enough I was thinking about the Ampegs/ little Mark route. ... Glad I am heading in the right direction. Thanks for your input...it's really appreciated. 

1 hour ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

The BN10-200X is displacement limited to 120 watts, so a 500w/8 ohm amp would have no problem driving four of them to maximum output. If you can't find one rated for 2 ohms rewire them to series/parallel for 8 ohms. BTW, you didn't bi-amp if you didn't have an electronic crossover. You were dual amping.

Hi Bill

Technically I guess I do dual amp and I need a dual amp solution... Sorry I was unclear...when I said happy for an alternative I meant it still had to retain 2 amps...so dual mono..or stereo amp. Or 2 individual amps..as this is the way I get my sounds..(think Billy Sheehan/ Chris Wolstenholme etc) I want to keep the cab the same...so one amp into the left 2 x 10s plus horn (4 ohms) side and the second amp into the other 2x10s (also 4 ohms)  for deeper response. That way if I can't find what I am looking for then in the meantime I can still use my 2 DBS heads .... Which do sound fantastic through this modded cab. I just want newer, smaller and lighter solutions to the amps and as I said I have the preamps on my board. I have been researching dual channel power amps today and it has thrown up some cheaper solutions....like the Sub Zero stuff but I can't find enough reviews on their durability and sound. Do you have any suggestions on models or manufacturers that might be worth a look who do good quality dual mono or stereo bass amps that run each channel at 4 ohms? It could be I just need to grab a couple of decent class D 300w amps and ignore their preamp sections...maybe a decent bass specific dual mono amp isn't a thing but any more help Is always appreciated.  Thanks. 

13 hours ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

You might not need as much power as you think, nor dual heads. I may be able to confirm it knowing what drivers you have.

Hi Bill the original cheaper speakers were swapped for Celestion bn10 200x Neos. Split in the cab ... One pair uses the horn.... The other pair on their own circuit. 2 separate speaking inputs on the back. Each side is 4 ohm rated as each pair is wired in parallel. One added bonus ...if I use both speakon outputs on one of the Marshall heads I get ato use the full 2 ohm 400w from the head and the cab is now 800w rated... Monster set up and the cab is lovely and compact. 

Happy if there is an alternative to dual amps but I always bi amped .. I did think about a stereo power amp but couldn't find new ones....stuff like the Marshall 9100 but I am trying to reduce size and weight and really want something new....my life has been using good quality SH gear and as good as it is there is always that niggling....will it go wrong tonight. ...doubt. 

1 hour ago, Lozz196 said:

Keep it in house and get a couple of the Ashdown RM heads. Plenty of power, great sound, lightweight & portable, plus any issues UK based so easy to sort.

Hi Lozz..... I did think about this.. I have an ABM 300w head that used to match the cab somewhere but it gave me nothing but problems so I had to stop using it live. I was never a huge fan of the sound but as I have preamps on the board if they have send return I could avoid the preamps. I'll take a look. Thanks

29 minutes ago, warwickhunt said:

You have a preamp, why not just buy a dedicated power amp?  These days watts are cheap enough and you aren't paying for all the unnecessary extras in a dedicated bass amp.  

I did think about this as i have the preamps on the board ..what dual channel/stereo power amps do you know of? I'm not familiar with just power amps. Thanks. 

Hi you beautiful people...

Looking for advice/guidance on mini heads for bi amp rig. 

Scenario: currently I run 2 Marshall DBS 400  heads into a 4x10 and 2x15 cabs in a classic rock/metal covers band. 2 guitarists both on 100w rigs and animal on the drums  These amps are power houses ...sound great but parts are getting harder to find and I need something physically smaller. Rig is way too big for the smaller venues. I had to replace the 2x15 and 410 cabs for smaller venues so ..

I have made an old Ashdown 4x10 cab into a dual 2x10 cab... 400w per side neo Celestions at 4ohms. Paired with the heads it sounds killer but I need to retire the Marshall's. 

So I think I need 2 400w plus @4ohm mini/small ( class D???) heads to drive them. Or 200w or over but must be loud...(my long gone old trace 200 was deafening. But not all 200ws are built the same)  I tried the darkglass microtubes 200w today in Andertons and it's in the ball park volume wise ( well 2 of them would be) but I don't need their drive circuit...just good clean bass and it didn't do that so well. On my board I have a Dark Glass bk7 ultra pre in one Channel (for grit and oomph) and on the other a Laney  Digbeth pre to give me real old school warmth. ( Can highly recommend this pedal.  Sounds lovely) 

So can you give your advice/guidance....max budget really is about £900 for the 2 amps.... But cheaper is always a bonus. 

Do you think a pair of Warwick gnome or Trace elf (elves?)would be loud enough? Anyone got thoughts on the TC stuff?  Although I do need to check they can run at 4ohms.. any help would be really appreciated before we are off gigging again in March.

Thanks so much for taking the time to read this far and really hope you can guide...

Cheers

1 hour ago, Lozz196 said:

Great rig, the DBS range was very under-rated and under-appreciated imo

Couldn't agree more.... The heads have some serious fire power and headroom for days. The 2x15 are quite rare but is one of the best sounding cabs I've ever heard. I have a 1 x15 version as well but it doesn't quite carry the same amount of heft.... But sadly therein lies part of the problem...they weigh a ton! You can't quite see it but I broke my left shoulder in June and am still recovering...this was taken after 2 hours of playing and the strap took its toll on my clavical which is why I am holding the bass....without my band mates helping me , shifting them would have been nigh on impossible..... However they are an absolute bargain used.... 

The rig ....not my band mates...they are definitely not a bargain....😂

As I have joined a new , to me, classic rock/metal covers band and have to compete with Animal on the drums and 2 Leary 100w Marshall's I thought I would trot this set up out. Total overkill but my god it sounds good. Sadly I might have to retire the DBS heads as parts are almost impossible to find these days but I'll go down fighting..apologies for being in the photo....check out the fantastic Tee shirt my drummer made...(my name's Carl obvs) on the back it says "probably the best bass player in the band" not actually sure that's true... 

47 minutes ago, Newfoundfreedom said:

Yup. Same from the other direction. My wife runs a small business here in the EU and supplies to the UK. There's nothing good about any of this from a small business perspective. 

Thankfully the UK market is only a very small part of her business and her ability to trade with the rest of Europe and the world goes on unhindered. I feel sorry for small UK traders who won't have it anywhere near as easy. 

I hate to be a downer but I have to agree here. I see a slight parallel with what was going on with my business back in the 90's. Off shore Companies like Thomann are going to become less competitive in the UK market (as proved by my near recent purchase) which closes the door to  foreign competition (In house brands not  withstanding) ..so the big guns  in the UK like Andertons, PMT etc with the buying power to strike major deals with manufacturers and wholesalers are going to end up running the market, cue reduced discounts and price fixing. What our US friends refer to as Mom and pop stores, so our local independent music shops, are, in general,  not going to carry the range/stock, and if they can, are unlikely to be competitive on pricing. There always used to be the pro of  "I can pop down and get it now"  with local stores but with lockdowns and, love it or hate it, the ability of companies like Amazon to delivery next day or in 2 days, I fear for the small high street, and in some cases, internet retailer. The only way to seem to able to survive as a ground business is if you are carrying on an established business with free premises  (so massively reduced overheads),  a really good reputation/customer base and you can offer a unique service.  Anyone tried pulling together a business plan for a start up these days...blimey this country is expensive and on top of that customers aren't allowed out to buy stuff anyway. 

It will be interesting to see how it pans out. If you do run a small business in the UK I wish you all the best. It isn't easy at the best of times and with all the lockdowns it must be incredibly hard to keep motivated and to keep generating a steady income. I really hope that not too many fall by the wayside as when we finally do get back out gigging  the service you offer will be sorely missed if you aren't there. 

13 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

VAT is charged once (or should be). Stuff coming from Germany will cost zero VAT from the supplier and 20% (plus any fees) UK VAT when it arrives in the UK.

DV247 used to a shop in Southampton and I bought from them quite regularly.

Ah cool so they have a proper UK presence then.... Anyone know if there is import Duty from Germany on electrical products as well as the VAT?

2 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Or have the space to do so.

Back in the early 90's I used to run an online photographic store with a business partner. We used to work closely with our wholesalers and had a system where we would carry a lot of low priced and smaller stock ready for immediate dispatch and we worked agreements where the wholesalers would send high level items direct to customer and invoice to us. This allowed us to offer a huge range of cameras that could be dispatched within a day and customers usually had the item within 2 working days maximum it also meant we lost at least one P and P cost and meant we could keep turn over high and profit margins low thus passing on the benefit to the customer. In order to make bigger profits one really needed to specialise in small but expensive markets like medium and large format photography rather than the mainstream.

1 minute ago, bartelby said:

DV247 have an outlet in Romford, but they're based in Germany. So some stuff can come from the UK shop, other stuff comes from Germany.

So on their site it says available in Romford (obviously I cant get there at the moment) so do you know if it is available there it will be all paid up with nothing owing if they ship? Sorry I should ask them..its just your notification popped up..

Happy new year all...I was about to post a new thread when I saw this one...I did read the first 12 pages and then skim so apologies if this has been covered..the thread seemed to start wandering...

So for my B/day/Christmas I decided I wanted a NI S88 MK2 keyboard...struggling to find one in the UK so popped off to Thomann and they have stock at £715 ....It didn't even cross my mind that leaving the EU would incur Duty and VAT at our border... I really am not that into politics and frankly I had enough to deal with coming up to the new year and completely forgot about Brexit... In my Cart it says nothing about incurred charges and the shipping is free due to ticket price..thing is if I get charged in the UK at 20% that makes the item £850 ish plus a handling fee (which seems to out of my control) which is no where near competitive with UK prices so how on earth are Thomann going to be competitive?

Fortunately I didn't order it. Purely by chance something crept into my head about import as around here (Swindon) they are red hot on collecting all duty/VAT and post office handling fees...In fact it works out to be so expensive I have completely stopped ordering from China and the US..it just isn't economical to do so unless the item price is tiny..

So is there import duty as well as VAT on stuff from Germany?? Which companies are worth buying from..I see DV247 are matching Andertons price at  £799...anyone had any dealings with them? Are they UK based?  I used BAX once and it was a terrible shopping experience so not going back there....Happy to buy in the UK although I liked the non VAT price of Thomann better than the UK prices.. 😂

Isn't the Behringer super octaver supposed to be a direct clone of the OC2...doesnt get much cheaper than that...check out JHS on youtube...josh did a whole vid on Behringer pedals and their  ...ahem....'tribute' to Boss pedals...

Any ABY pedal..I use the LS 2 and a lehle Dual (awesome) and I am waiting for a donner pathfinder as this has phase reversal ( i run 2 amps) and also has volume to both outputs...also if it doesnt give ground loops it will be a bargain at £35.00.... thought I would give it a go......Gigrig abybaby also very good but expensive..... there are quite a few on the market just make sure they are ABY and not A/B pedals.

I use everything with a clean blend...it opens up so many options...but recently I bought a Sheehan deluxe drive and if I was only allowed one pedal thats it. Parallel clean with great od to almost distortion...built in compressor...with a boost function (with internal dip switch for gain level) 2 loops one on the clean side and one on the dirty side allows you to add pedals..(i use an OC2 in the clean loop) changeable opamps and its phase reversible...  I mean thats some serious bang for your buck....oh and it sounds fantastic in a band setting as well...really cuts through...