vsmith1

GK Plex as it has switchable Compression, Distortion/Grit, and there are a number of models the various settings. It has a tuner, and will run off my USB Power Bank with appropriate ZipCord USB to 9V cable.

I made my own custom fit IEMs. The isolation is considerably better than standard in-ear buds. I made them with the Monoprice 'phones, with the foam/gel part removed and custom fitted into the ear moulds. The Monoprice units were bass-heavy, and that's fine for me. I actually have a spare set of the Monoprice units, just in case.

Sometimes, I just put in the ear moulds, it helps reduce the sound levels. 

In terms of the IEM audio mix, I find that the bass feed has to be loud enough without it causing the drivers in the buds to distort, so some time spent in getting the mix from the desk into my feed, more by reducing other inputs rather than turning stuff up. I also have to factor in my hearing and the effects of my age on my ear's frequency responses. So it is good not to share my AUX mix with anyone else.

In one band, we've used Presonus AIR - both a pair of tops, and an AIR15s sub. No issues at all. The sub was bought with a castors kit, which is useful. In the other band, one member has Alto tops and I added a DB Technolgoies SUB12 sub, as I played small venues with just my GK Plex DI and IEMs and the drummer used a e-kit.  The DBT SUB12 sub is not as large, heavy, costly or as powerful as the AIR15s. 

I note that Presonus have been acquired by Fender. 

Yes I'm interested. Clapham is not too far away for me. Often playing gigs in Ingleton, Bentham and maybe returning to Settle.

I am willing to bring my Darkglass Exponent 500 to see if anyone is interested. 

Note that with B4RN providing the 1Gbps symmetric connection - you could see if anyone can do some live streaming to those more out of reach areas such as London!

On 20/11/2023 at 13:53, Silvia Bluejay said:

Off the top of my head:

a. The router might be going west

b. Interference. There are places where the connection is faultless throughout, and places where it's a constant struggle, and it's not the router's fault.

In addition to the actual WiFi routers in the venue, we found that WiFi printers may interfere, and LED lights (especially the decorative ones you can route all around marquees etc.) seem to have a bad effect on the connection too, when there are a number very close to the unit or even worse, when they're plugged into the same circuit or an adjacent socket. Unfortunately, unless you have a residency in a certain venue, there's no way of testing.

 

We are now using a Soundcraft Ui 24R and we've occasionally encountered similar problems, but to a far lesser extent.

It might also be a limitation of the number of concurrent devices able to connect. The Soundcraft ui24r has a limit of 10. When I set up the external WiFi router (Access Point) then I set the DHCP Scope to limit the range to 10 devices.  I think that the internal WiFi Access Point on the Behringer X Air is limited to 4 devices. 

14 hours ago, Chienmortbb said:

Maybe a different coloured tape around each mic?

I produce a Hook Up sheet - a diagram (with colour coding) identifying whose cable goes in where. Still people get it wrong - ie plugging their AUX  XLR cable into the wrong AUX output (ie channel AUX 2 rather than AUX 3) then wondering why their monitor mix is all wrong. I've previously used coloured stickers (small 4mm) on the desk next to the sockets to help. 

Though coloured stuff is hard to see in most gig situations due to the lack of lighting or "mood" lighting.

Great to see you making (rapid in my experience) progress. 
As people change their instruments (DIs, mics, etc.) then it changes gain structure usually. There ought to be a change control process (that's my IT career speaking). 

Getting everything into the FoH helps when playing larger gigs, or gigs where the FoH is provided (eg in our area Ruskins, Kendal). On stage set up largely stays the same.

It is the rack-sized unit FBQ2496 or FBQ1000 - it's been a long time since they've seen daylight!

On 21/10/2023 at 12:39, Pirellithecat said:

 Given the limited space available at gigs - has anyone any experience of the Behringer FBQ100 SHARK Microphone Feedback Destroyer?    Small footprint and could sit next to the mixer - could use for just the drummer's vocal mic. 

 

Borrowed a Shure SM58Beta for this evening - upside is it should pick up less from the monitor (if I can get it positioned well)  bad news - no mic switch, so drummer can't turn it off when not singing!!!    We'll see. 

 

I like the headset idea - but it'll take a bit of persuasion ....... 

 

Thanks for all the continuing good ideas ........ 

If you want to try a Behringer Feedback Destroyer - I have one that I could sell.

1 hour ago, Pirellithecat said:

Bigger "performance area" than usual on Saturday.

Changes made
One monitor (rather than up to 3)

IEM's for me and drummer

Better Mic/monitor positioning

Mic sensitivities done pre gig
Monitoring set up after FOH volume.

New guitar cab - portrait angled top vs on floor to ankle. 

IEM's for me and drummer

Increased FOH speaker vol/reduced mixer gain.

Sneaked a bit of guitars into front of house instead of cranking volume ....... 

Results
No feedback! 

Still very loud out front

Loud but not painful on stage

IEM's not very successful in consistently getting right mix (any mix for me).   Needs work if we are going to continue to uses them for drummer.  Even without any actual mix (tech issues?) IEM's good in term of noise reduction but being able to hear.  For drummer we will need to add overhead Mic(s) to capture all drums in IEM mix.

Drummer could sing without feed back - great benefit. 

 

So, either a benign venue or the changes are having an effect!   We went down a storm so just for fun, here's the band in action!!

 

You are looking good. Glad to see that you have already made some positive changes. 

29 minutes ago, Pirellithecat said:

Bloody hell - and I'm worrying about too complex!  How long does it usually take to get set up and sound check?  I guess with experience (and less back line) it gets easier/quicker?  I ask because at our upcoming gig we follow a band who nominally finish at 8pm.  No shared gear so they have to clear away before we can make a start setting up (PA, Drums, Monitors, Backline, Sound Check) and be ready to start at 9pm.  If they have an encore -  we're stuffed! 
In preparation I shall watching replays of Formula 1 Pit Stops!
Thanks for the detail though - very useful!  

   

It sounds it, though being organised and getting all band members to do their bits is very important. I create a Hook Up diagram, everyone knows which sockets they plug their instrument(s)/mics in, which AUX goes to their monitor. Keep it the same even colour code it. Then the mixer set up is just down to little tweaks, to satisfy the room, some monitor mix changes due to positional changes. The advantage is a a digital mixer. Save the settings and up to go quickly. An analogue mixer sometimes can have the knobs, faders moved during getting in in or out of the case.
In terms of setting up, the loading in takes a time (especially the drums), and then cabling up can take a little while. Otherwise it is quick due to the saved settings in the digital desks.

On 02/10/2023 at 09:36, Pirellithecat said:

🤣 Great! ...... so that'd be 4 monitor feeds  (Bass, Drums, 2 Vocals) ... and we've recently replaced our mixer with a nice new shiny Mackie 16ProFX ........ with 3 Aux Sends!!!!     😳Doh!   But you are right.    I'll start trying to sell all my  "spare" gear (and maybe a kidney) to fund a 4 Aux send mixer -  any suggestions!!   What were you using on Saturday - great sound with several monitor feeds and not enormous in terms of "footprint".     Great crowd response too - how did Sunday go?

Well yes - as a future-proof suggestion - have as many AUX/Monitor feeds as you have band members. And some might be even happier with a stereo IEM aux mix. 

Thanks for the compliment. Saturday was our usual (2 Hoots) small venue set up a) inputs: e-drums with stereo in, gtr1 Combo with DI 1 in, gtr2 combo with DI in, bass DI (GK Plex), lead vox, drummer vox, gtr1 vox, gtr2 vox, bass vox. b) aux outs: lead vox wedge, drummer wedge, gtr1 wedge, gtr2 wedge, bassist IEM. c) outs: main L&R Note I had no backline just the GK Plex DI and IEMs. Our lead vox wears hearing aids and so has his wedge loud. Which means that everything else on stage has to fit around that.  We use a Behringer XAir which has 6 AUXes. Each person in the band can have their own monitor mix. Eg for me, I have mostly my vox, my Bass with a lesser amount of each other instrument and vox. For larger venues I take a backline (and use a full-sized rather than the short-scale), but it is still DI'd in. I usually wear my IEM in any case for my hearing protection (that lead vox wedge is loud!). 

The other band I play in (Alice & The Looking Glass), is similar: a) inputs: e-drums with stereo in, gtr1 Combo with DI 1 in, gtr2 combo with DI in, acoustic gtr in, mandolin DI in, keyboard in, bass DI (GK Plex), lead vox, gtr2 vox, bass vox. b) aux outs: lead vox IEM, drummer IEM, gtr1 wedge, bassist IEM. c) outs: main L&R. IN larger venues the drum e-kit is a mic'd up acoustic kit, and I'll have a backline (again not the short-scale) with the amp DI'd in. We use a Soundcraft ui24r which has at least 6 AUXes.

Sunday was a great response too! Here is some video from FB. Just phone video, so the sound quality is not brilliant, and taken from upstairs: https://fb.watch/nrHBDLcBqa/

On 30/09/2023 at 15:36, Pirellithecat said:

I do need to work on the positioning of the band members/monitors on the stage - that's a very good point.   Might require a bit more "negotiation though .......

We currently use a single monitor shared between the vocalist and the guitar player who also sings.   If we "split up" the vocalist and guitar player I suspect we would need another monitor.  I'm wondering whether that might actually be a good idea anyway, as each individual monitor would have to cover a smaller space and consequently be able to be quieter.    Each monitor would also be more able to be positioned in the Null Zone of each Mic.  One is an SM58, the other an SM58Beta.

 

In the rehearsal space the bass cab is not near a wall - it's centrally placed in the room,  at least 2meters away from the nearest wall.  I'm trying to measure the volume of overall sound pressure waves reaching my ears rather than the bass volume.  The (doubtless approximate) sound-meter app seems to suggest that we are a tad loud and that it's not just my perception or aged ears.
I've re-read the info on SM58 placement relative to a monitor and we're pretty much in line with that, except the wall behind the vocalist in the rehearsal space.   

So next steps are - use 2, different monitors - away from the reflective wall and in the null zones of the mics.   If this helps, negotiate the position of the band members on stage.  (This would also be really helpful as it would move me away from the Crash Cymbal!.) 

If you had two monitors then get a separate monitor mix to each, so that the lead vocalist has more of herself, and enough of there others; the secondary vocalist has more of themselves and enough of the others. That would help with overall reduction stage volumes, provided that the drums don't swamp everything.

At the risk being sound too generalistic:

Everything is a compromise, especially in a (usually small) pub setting. 

Cut rather than increase - especially the mix levels - so that in order to make "a" louder, reduce "b,c,d,e,etc."

If there is backline then as human anatomy has ears on the head, get the backline cab as close to the head as possible or at least pointing to the head. 

Reduce the backline volumes, maybe by getting everything through the PA. Often it is acoustic drum kits that define the stage loudness, as people need to hear themselves above the drums. Of course, an e-kit is easier as it has volume controls. As long as the PA has good support for the kick drum especially - which can mean that a sub is needed. 

19 hours ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

Lots of things aren't particularly noticeable if you're not able to make side by side comparisons. When you put subs under tops you not only lose boundary loading, by not have them close to a wall, you also can have cancellation notches when they're 1/4 wavelength out from a wall. If they're split by less than two wavelengths you will have power alley comb filtering. That's the science, and the science is never wrong.

There are three reasons why people put subs under mains.

#1: "That's how everybody does it".

#2: "It's the only way we know to do it".

#3: "We don't know any better way to do it/we don't know why it's the wrong way to do it".

 

Now you know.

#4: "There's no space to have the sub and top separate." [File under pragmatism at the Dog & Duck]

On 17/09/2023 at 11:35, Pirellithecat said:

Just back from a gig.  Small area for the band .... pub.   Loud.    Thought I'd take all the gear just to practice set up etc.  But did we really need the Sub?  
Absolutely!

Of all the improvements to the PA, the most noticeable, even in small pubs, is its effect on the kick drum.  Tried it on and off and there's no question that it really solidifies the sound of the band.

Not only that, but it's much better (under a PA top) at stabilising the PA when inebriated yobs fall into the band, baptising us in beer!   Again.

 

But the point I really wanted to make is that I suspect it's a much better option to buy one high quality sub that 2 lesser quality units.    It avoids the positioning/interference debate, makes life easier in terms of transport and is likely to do the job well.   

I can fit my bass rig (2 cabs) Sub (RCF 705) 2 tops (932's) 2 bags of wires, stands, monitor, mixer me and me bass and pedal board into an ID3 (think golf with less carbon).  Just.   And drive over Wrynose Pass to last night's gig.

I agree. Just to add that in one of my bands, the drummer uses a e-kit so the kick drum needs that support from a sub. In the other band, the drummer sometimes uses an ekit and the sub again is essential. I also DI my bass out into the PA and again is supported by the sub. It makes the stage area quieter. 

In terms of kit: both bands have 2xtops and 1xsub. One top sits on a pole in the sub. 

On 29/07/2023 at 18:36, Smanth said:

I bought an XR-18 here on BC a while back, used it in anger for the first time at an open mic about 3 weeks ago.

Performed to perfection!  The mixer was at the side of the stage so no super long XLR cables were needed.

All controlled over WiFi (via an external WiFi hub connected, the built in WiFi is near useless) from an iPad and my iPhone.

 

Control was really not bad, tho I've sprung the huge £5 or so to get the mixing station app https://mixingstation.app/

I've yet to fully set it up, but it is much more customisable than the x-air app.

 

S'manth x 

Thoroughly agree that Mixing Station app makes much more sense. You can customise your view in Mixing Station, hide the channels you don't use, re-order the ones you do etc.

On 22/08/2023 at 00:25, Downunderwonder said:

IEM scare me to death for the potential for a system out of my control to blow out my ears with one mistake.

That's why the unit that drives the in-ear 'phones should have a limiter. That's whether it is wired or wireless. A mere headphone amp usually does not have a limiter circuit. 

I used to use an Ampeg SCR-DI as my amp-less setup, with IEMs. I wasn't overly happy with the Scrambler on the few songs with some grit. But it served me very well. I particularly liked using it with a RipCord USB 9V cable and USB power bank, as I didn't need to run out a mains connection near the front. 
 

I sold the SCR-DI and got a GK Plex, I am personally happier with that range of tones (especially the grit), but nothing fundamentally wrong with the SCR-DI.

I use a USB PowerBank which is rechargeable and a Ripcord USB to 9V cable. 

https://myvolts.com/Ripcord

I'm not using the PP3 or AA or AAA batteries. A PowerBank runs my GK Plex DI. Which means that I don't have any powerstrip, mains  etc. out at the front to my position. I have also used the same approach for my wired IEM set up with the LD Systems headphone amp with a smaller PowerBank and Ripcord  cable to power the headphone amp. The same approach will work for a "pedal board" style tuner. 

I like this approach, especially with any outdoor gigs, as no mains electricity gets anywhere close to me.

59 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Always loved that song, nice authentic sound too. Nice to see some additional angles on the go too. Always lifts stuff up.

 

How have you miced up the drums? Sounds like a kick and overhead but unless I'm being blind I can't see it...

 

Thanks. I was using my Sire V7 - now I use a Sandberg California II VM4S mostly. I still have the Sire - but use it my other band as it is permanently tuned down to suit the vocalist

Drums currently have two mics: kick and another more ambient.

The drummer has just invested in two condenser pencil mics to position as overheads. We hope to get them included in the mix this coming weekend.

Here's an Alice and The Looking Glass band video from a live gig in a marquee at Ribblehead, North Yorkshire. The recording is taken live, as we all go into the desk and then the sound is mixed to add to the video.
 

8 hours ago, AxelF said:

Yeah we regularly use three U4s with our XR18 mixer, plus one of the guitarists uses an XVive wireless bug for his guitar too, never have any issues. We use an external router for the mixer though as Woodinblack says.

Agreed.

We use an XAIR with an external WiFi router, and have set that to only 5GHz WiFi and the iPad, Android tablet can use 5GHz WiFi. Then the U4 uses 2.4GHz WiFi without issue and interference with the vocalists Shure wireless mic, my Boss WL-50 wireless bass and the guitarist's Boss WL-20 wireless. 

Ampeg SCR-DI in good condition. Bought from new but I have replaced it with a GK Plex. The SCR-DI is a really useful  piece of kit with DI, headphone input and line in and Scrambler overdrive section which can be separately switched in and out. Takes usual 9V PSU or 9V battery. Very well constructed. Just a few scratches. All feet are present. 

No box or PSU but will be well wrapped. £120 posted to mainland UK.

I use an amp-less set up for tiny spaces. I rely on the FoH PA which does include a sub. So my chain is:

Bass>Ampeg SCR-DI>desk>FoH

desk>xVive IEM>homemade custom IEMs using Monoprice drivers (they have a great bass response)

Note I run the SCR-DI off a USB battery with a MyVolts Ripcord USB power cable. 

Positive net effect in that I need no mains sockets nearby. The Ampeg DI includes a switchable overdrive. Sometimes I add a Boss WL-50 wireless connection.