TheButler Posted March 29, 2010 Share Posted March 29, 2010 My band are starting to get lots of reviews at the moment, just before the album is released next month. For a start most of the reviews are just copy and pasting the PR stuff the publication gets sent, leaving them to do... well, not a lot really. Some other reviews are glowing, and have a lot of thought put into them with some jolly nice comments - hell, even i, of all people, got called 'talented!' There is one though, that stands out, we got from a magazine called Loud and Quiet which made for depressing. Think we got 4/10 and slated with some pretty nasty critique! I took it on the chin, and i think the others are getting over it now the reviews are coming in. I guess what i'm asking is, who can you trust? When most are recycled PR, and others either one extreme or another, it leaves us in a bit of a limbo. Is it as simply as people merely liking it or disliking it? Is there more involved, perhaps depending on the publication's demographic? It is difficult to take such crushing criticism on the chin, but maybe i'm just young and naive... lots to learn i have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eight Posted March 29, 2010 Share Posted March 29, 2010 (edited) How objective a person are you? Criticism is your best friend in most walks of life - if you're honest enough with yourself to know when it's true. If you don't believe it applies, just ignore it and crack on. Doesn't really matter why they're writing it if you don't think it's valid. Edited March 29, 2010 by Eight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheButler Posted March 29, 2010 Author Share Posted March 29, 2010 [quote name='Eight' post='789940' date='Mar 29 2010, 09:03 PM']How objective a person are you? Criticism is your best friend in most walks of life - if you're honest enough with yourself to know when it's true. If you don't believe it applies, just ignore it and crack on. Doesn't really matter why they're writing it if you don't think it's valid.[/quote] Taste is a social and natural phenomenon like all other patterns of human cultural behaviour. I like criticism, but when i can't appreciate the one giving it's view point, i tend to think that i must be missing something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted March 29, 2010 Share Posted March 29, 2010 Your friends will say you are awesome,and your enemies will say you suck. The truth usually lies somewhere in the middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheButler Posted March 29, 2010 Author Share Posted March 29, 2010 [quote name='Doddy' post='790020' date='Mar 29 2010, 10:01 PM']Your friends will say you are awesome,and your enemies will say you suck. The truth usually lies somewhere in the middle.[/quote] I didn't think i had any enemies, and not many friends Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted March 29, 2010 Share Posted March 29, 2010 (edited) Range of possibilities re: the one bad review you mention. Careful scrutiny of what was written / not written may (or may not) indicate one of the following: * Publication target audience may not be aligned with your genre / approach - hence you're a cheap easy target for the journo to pick off * Journo may just have been having a bad day and didn't much like your output * Your band (or whoever's handling your PR) may be on the journo's shitlist. * They gave the review to a junior who's trying to make a name * Your output is below par and they were the only ones to be honest (unlikely) Either way, it's not something to get 'upset' about. This is business, after all. If 'Loud and Quiet' is essential to your development, whoever does your PR should be tasked to turn the situation round. If not, backburner the relationship with the mag and let them come crawling back when you get big. Reviews should not be used as a mirror; they should be used as a tool. Edited March 29, 2010 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dread Bass Posted March 29, 2010 Share Posted March 29, 2010 We got reviewed the other day and it wasn't great. We got basically got accused of being generic metalcore which we are not happy with at all. but the fact is this guy came to the gig to watch full on death metal. We play melo death. I took it hard fir the first half hour then thought stuff it. What can i do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheButler Posted March 29, 2010 Author Share Posted March 29, 2010 [quote name='skankdelvar' post='790046' date='Mar 29 2010, 10:23 PM']Range of possibilities re: the one bad review you mention. Careful scrutiny of what was written / not written may (or may not) indicate one of the following: * Publication target audience may not be aligned with your genre / approach - hence you're a cheap easy target for the journo to pick off * Journo may just have been having a bad day and didn't much like your output * Your band (or whoever's handling your PR) may be on the journo's shitlist. * They gave the review to a junior who's trying to make a name * Your output is below par and they were the only ones to be honest (unlikely) Either way, it's not something to get 'upset' about. This is business, after all. If 'Loud and Quiet' is essential to your development, whoever does your PR should be tasked to turn the situation round. If not, backburner the relationship with the mag and let them come crawling back when you get big. Reviews should not be used as a mirror; they should be used as a tool.[/quote] Those observations were quite inline with my own actually. The magazine's demographic is not the people that would want to be buying our music, and so its easy pickings. In saying that, L&Q have ripped into some of my favorite bands in the past. It is actually the only negative review, but i guess one can't help but get hung up at first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 (edited) [quote name='TheButler' post='790094' date='Mar 29 2010, 10:56 PM']It is actually the only negative review, but i guess one can't help but get hung up at first.[/quote] Sorry if I seemed a bit cold and cynical. It's only natural for you to feel a bit put out - after all, it's a very personal business, making music. But it's always worth remembering that: 1) Journos usually have an agenda and it's someone's job to work out what that agenda is 2) 'Handling' our inky-fingered mates is a complex task often best left to professionals working to a careful strategy, sometimes involving veiled threats, cajolery and recreational narcotics. If it makes you feel any better, the Music Press irrationally hated Led Zep for years. In an attempt to circumvent this obstacle, their management struck a deal with 'prestigious', high-circulation 'Life' magazine. Well-known journo Ellen Sander was invited to accompany them on tour. The interviews were high-flown and thoughtful. The blandishments were many and various. All was going well. Unfortunately for everyone, an insanely drink-crazed John Bonham 'propositioned' her rather forcefully on the private jet shortly before she was due to file copy. Best laid plans, least said soonest mended, clusterf*ck of biblical proportions, etc. Edited March 30, 2010 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman69 Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 Oh, yes John was off the scale towards the end God Bless him. Up to all sorts.. this could be taken as a lesson for the Op and his bandmates. Keep doing good work, try to improve wherever possible.. and never listen to Skankdelvars advice!!! Ah, kidding on #3 there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomBassmonkey Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 We had a review recently that was basically along the lines of "they're great musicians, they'll probably be playing Glasto in a year or two but they suck". The music just obviously wasn't to the guy's tastes but it didn't stop him ripping our songwriting abilities. Some people just don't understand that their opinions aren't objective and shouldn't really be put in a review without clearly defining that they're just opinions. Look at the review and see if there's any quotes you can take from it (we got a good one about playing Glasto from the above example ) and then move on. There's no way you can appeal to everyone and that goes for critics as well as general punters unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 I don't get this. Music is a totally subjective thing, how can you write an objective review? It doesn't matter how technically good the playing the production or the songwriting are, because in the end it comes down to a single thing as a listener: do the tunes move me or not? That's totally subjective and completely out of your control. TBH if it was my band, I'd rather the review slagged us off then simply cut and paste from our press release, because at least it shows the reviewer actually listened to the music and formed an opinion even if it is one that I don't agree with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 (edited) [quote name='BigRedX' post='790566' date='Mar 30 2010, 01:38 PM']TBH if it was my band, I'd rather the review slagged us off then simply cut and paste from our press release, because at least it shows the reviewer actually listened to the music and formed an opinion even if it is one that I don't agree with.[/quote] I admire your honesty But, TBH, if it was my band I'd rather the reviewer took exactly the line I was trying to push. Next best after that is cut and paste. Truthful negativity should be suppressed by any means possible. Once you're at the level of sending out releases and soliciting reviews, it's about developing your commercial appeal. Whether the reviewer [i]genuinely[/i] likes it or not is almost immaterial. Ideally, you build a relationship with journos where they'll exult your best efforts, play down any negative aspects and reserve their [i]real[/i] criticisms for a matey late-night drink in a VIP bar. It's a dirty business, but someone's got to do it. Edited March 30, 2010 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 (edited) I think that at the level most of us here operate at, we've not really had the opportunity to cultivate relationships with many journalists and the best we can hope for is to target the right publications/web sites for the genre of music we're producing and hope that the reviews editor passes our offering on to someone sympathetic to what we're trying to do. Speaking from experience, the last commercially produced CD that I was on produced a handful of glowing positive reviews and large number of cut and pastes from the label's press release and one scathing review. The bad review in a way was just as useful as the good ones as it was well written, funny and if I had come across it as a reader I would have been tempted to check out the CD just to see if it really was as poor as was made out! I suppose that 35 years of producing music that has been individualistic and never really in time with what was considered popular, have given me a fairly thick skin when it comes to other people's opinions. I would love what I do to have critical acclaim, but for the most part I'm satisfied that other people just notice that it exists. Edited March 30, 2010 by BigRedX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheButler Posted March 30, 2010 Author Share Posted March 30, 2010 I agree. I'm merely saying that there must surely be some objectivity in the aesthetic appreciation of music. Thatis a debate for another time perhaps. I like getting the reviews in, and i might have not made it clear, but there is nothing that annoys me more than a cut and paste. However, when the bottom line is ultimately, '' I want this music to sell, so i can pay my rent '' i suppose what i want is probably not best for me. My concern was that if every reviewer just cuts the PR junk then how can one get honest critique of a band? Negative reviews might be the consequence of bias, or as pointed out earlier, just to keep reader's happy, so where do bands sit exactly? I'm only 19, and i think i am just worried that i have rather a lot to learn about such a multi-faceted industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 Diana Rigg once compiled a book of severe theatrical reviews, it's called "No Turn Unstoned", well worth a read if you've got a negative review getting you down. There are some legendary talents who get absolutely torn apart in the reviews in that book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 (edited) [quote name='TheButler' post='789874' date='Mar 29 2010, 08:31 PM']My band are starting to get lots of reviews at the moment, just before the album is released next month.[/quote] Getting reviews at all when noone knows who you are is a brilliant result. Only one bad review is pretty good going. If the review doesn't criticise anything in particular (eg. being derivative of particular things or not having any hooks or riffs), then it is simply a question of someone disliking it. If you don't agree with the criticisms (if there is anything specific), then it means you believe in what you're doing and the reviewer either doesn't get it or doesn't like it, or that you're on the wrong track or not achieving what you're trying to achieve. Edited March 30, 2010 by The Funk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassassin Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 [quote name='TheButler' post='790957' date='Mar 30 2010, 07:18 PM']I agree. I'm merely saying that there must surely be some objectivity in the aesthetic appreciation of music.[/quote] There's a strong argument for the notion that there only two sorts of music - music you like and music you don't. The only objective criterion that leaves you with is whether it's competently performed or not. They say that those who can do, and those who can't, review - and it's astonishing how many embittered, jealous failed musicians end up being music "critics". Jon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 [quote name='TheButler' post='790957' date='Mar 30 2010, 07:18 PM']I'm only 19, and i think i am just worried that i have rather a lot to learn about such a multi-faceted industry.[/quote] All you have to learn is that basically everybody in the music business is a many-faced untrustworthy bastard who would sell you down the river in a microsecond to further their own needs & ambitions. It's pretty much just like every other avenue of life really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheButler Posted March 31, 2010 Author Share Posted March 31, 2010 [quote name='RhysP' post='792403' date='Mar 31 2010, 08:22 PM']All you have to learn is that basically everybody in the music business is a many-faced untrustworthy bastard who would sell you down the river in a microsecond to further their own needs & ambitions. It's pretty much just like every other avenue of life really. [/quote] On the other hand i secured a pretty cool endorsement deal, and have a couple of hundred quid piece of software coming my way soon! I know what you're saying though, people will do anything to advance themselves, or get money - even at the expense of a disposable band's reputation or whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 [quote name='TheButler' post='792414' date='Mar 31 2010, 08:28 PM']On the other hand i secured a pretty cool endorsement deal, and have a couple of hundred quid piece of software coming my way soon! [/quote] Please allow me to be the first person to say "Free software? What's he ever done to deserve that? I'm much more talented than him". Back to the original topic; the best comment I ever read about reviews was simply: "It's just one persons opinion". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mog Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 Our band usually gets slated by the press in Ireland. The states and uk are usually much better. I think we are the wrong type of metal for over here. That or we are sh*te??? I know some guys who packed it in over a bad review. You have to take all the bad ones and use them to improve the band. Some bad reviews are just malicious and need to be seen for what they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slaphappygarry Posted April 2, 2010 Share Posted April 2, 2010 You guys deserve nothing but success Jamie. Love your new record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheButler Posted April 2, 2010 Author Share Posted April 2, 2010 [quote name='slaphappygarry' post='794729' date='Apr 2 2010, 11:37 PM']You guys deserve nothing but success Jamie. Love your new record. [/quote] How do you know which band i was talking about, eh eh!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slaphappygarry Posted April 2, 2010 Share Posted April 2, 2010 Because I have been keeping a close eye on the reviews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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