What do you do if an RCD trips during a gig?

[skampino]

Hi,
having read it is crucial for my protection and that of my equipment to use an rcd, I have impressed on band members the importance of using them but they are worried about how we deal with any tripping out during a gig. Do you tell the landlord you can't continue or do you unplug the rcd and take a risk? Or what alternatives are there?
Cheers for replies.

[slaphappygarry]

The RCD is a protection and warning system in my eyes.

If it goes, alarm bells. To remove it is to invalidate buying it to start with.

G

[chris_b]

I wouldn't remove the RCD. I'd look for another wall socket first.

[johnny_frog]

If it's an rccb (residual current circuit breaker) then it's telling you that there is some kind of earth leakage current... something along the lines of a humid atmosphere allowing a voltage to track to earth, they trip at a low current (30mA) but a 240V shock will give you a kick at any current.

If it's a mcb (miniture circuit breaker) then there's been an overload drawing way too much current for that circuit.

In either case, these things are there to keep you safe and non frazzled.

[Johngh]

There is no way I would carry on if the RCD tripped out. NO WAY !!!!

[Marvin]

Leave the building. With all my gear.

[xilddx]

If the RCD trips, there's a problem. Resetting and carrying on won't solve the problem. Finding a different wall socket is the very least you should do.

An RCD won't protect you from a shock either, all it will do is reduce the potential harm to you from the shock, depending on the type.

[Marvin]

Being serious, which is unlike me.

If it happens again after changing socket then the problem may lie with the appliance or equipment. Whatever causes it to trip you should stop.

We had a new consumer unit installed in our house when we built our extension and the sockets are all covered by RCD's and they have tripped a couple of times. However, I've up to now worked out what the problems were. First time it happened it was because Mrs M left the kettle too close to a socket and the steam got into the socket and caused it to trip. The other times were due to a faulty iron. I should imagine that that was moisture again caused by water or steam getting into the appliance. I
If however, I couldn't have identified the reason I would have called in an electrician to test the circuits.

[skampino]

[quote name='silddx' post='784668' date='Mar 24 2010, 01:34 PM']If the RCD trips, there's a problem. Resetting and carrying on won't solve the problem. Finding a different wall socket is the very least you should do.

An RCD won't protect you from a shock either, all it will do is reduce the potential harm to you from the shock, depending on the type.[/quote]

It won't protect me from a shock? I thought it broke the circuit to prevent harm??
My equipment is all new so I've no problems there....I'm just conscious about taking precautions for everyone's safety.
So what's the answer apart from wearing thick welly boots?

[Stylon Pilson]

[quote name='skampino' post='784693' date='Mar 24 2010, 01:51 PM']So what's the answer apart from wearing thick welly boots?[/quote]

Actually, even thick welly boots won't help you. Generally the main problem you'll encounter at a gig is where one hand is touching your bass strings (or bridge, or control knobs) and the other is touching something else (microphone, someone else's guitar, etc) and the current is passing through your body from arm to arm.

You could wear thick rubber gloves, I suppose, but that might impair your playing.

S.P.

[skampino]

So are you saying there is no protection?
If so, what is the point of an RCD?
I don't gget it....have I missed something?

[Stylon Pilson]

[quote name='skampino' post='784735' date='Mar 24 2010, 02:29 PM']So are you saying there is no protection?
If so, what is the point of an RCD?
I don't gget it....have I missed something?[/quote]

An RCD's response time is of the order of 50ms. So you'll get shocked for 50ms. It will be unpleasant, but hopefully not kill you.

S.P.

[Bloodaxe]

[quote name='skampino' post='784735' date='Mar 24 2010, 02:29 PM']So are you saying there is no protection?
If so, what is the point of an RCD?
I don't gget it....have I missed something?[/quote]

Yes. The Time Factor (sounds like a Dr Who episode!)

A fuse can take anything from 1/10th to several seconds to blow & isolate the equipment from the supply.

An RCD should trip in less than 50 thousandths of a second.

Could be the difference between a sore arm & a stiff drink and looking at the lid of a pine box from the inside.

[skampino]

Thanks, I feel so much better than I'll only be electrocuted for 1/10th sec; it's got to be better than being frazzled ....lol.

[EdwardHimself]

[quote name='Stylon Pilson' post='784717' date='Mar 24 2010, 02:08 PM']Actually, even thick welly boots won't help you. Generally the main problem you'll encounter at a gig is where one hand is touching your bass strings (or bridge, or control knobs) and the other is touching something else (microphone, someone else's guitar, etc) and the current is passing through your body from arm to arm.

You could wear thick rubber gloves, I suppose, but that might impair your playing.

S.P.[/quote]

You don't have to wear rubber gloves. You can just disconnect the bridge ground but that will give you extra buzz. If you used EMG pickups and had plastic knobs on your pots then you wouldn't have to touch the ground on the bass and you would be electrically disconnected from the amp.

[skampino]

Eh?

[thepurpleblob]

Mmm.... there's some serious misinformation going on here...

* The RCD is NOT a substitute for, nor does it replicate the action of a fuse. The RCD detects excessive current flowing in the earth circuit (of the order of milliamps - thousands of an amp). A fuse protects against excessive current flowing in the "live" feed to the equipment (of the order of amps or a large fraction of an amp). Interesting fact... a human being does not draw enough current to blow a fuse. It only takes a few milliamps across your heart to kill you (that is, neither a fuse nor an RCD will help you if you plug yourself into the wall).

* The RCD is protecting against a fault in the equipment plugged into it. It's not protecting you from faults in the building wiring (the building supply may have an RCD of its own). Finding another plug will not make the slightest difference.

If an RCD trips you are allowed to attempt to reset it. Obviously, only if the cause isn't obvious (e.g. pint of beer over your amp). Failing that, eliminate the equipment causing the fault. That's right, you can't use it - it's potentially dangerous, you could die.

I don't do it but I think there's actually a case for getting stage equipment regularly PAT tested too.

Edited March 24, 2010 by thepurpleblob

[Captain Rumble]

I dont use an RCD but I do carry a martindale mains tester which I use to test any wall socket/extension lead before I use it

something like this

[url="http://www.test4less.co.uk/details.asp?menuselect=e&CategoryID=25&gclid=CIeq2KGK0qACFRuZ2AodWlTOzg&ProductID=79"]http://www.test4less.co.uk/details.asp?men...mp;ProductID=79[/url]

Edited March 24, 2010 by Captain Rumble

[bumnote]

many years ago i was watching another band set up to suddenly see the bass player on his back with one hand on his bass, and one on a mike stand and he was in a bad way.

no one in his band knew what to do, one bloke nearly grabbed the mike stand but I knew where the mains was and unplugged it. It doesnt take much to get electrocuted, and if you have a problem, you will have to rely on other people to sort your problem out very quickly.

I always put a clause in our contract that is is the promoters responsibility to provide a safe supply of electricity.
I check the mains outlet with an martindale tester when we arrive, I also check the plugboards and we have found faults in those where a wire has come off.
We always use an rcd and I normally use a wireless as much for added safety as anything else.

as other posters have said, if an rcd trips its 'probably' because one of your bits of kit is faulty. You might be able to check the obvious things, if they are non moulded plugs are any of the cables loose inside, splits,etc. You might be able to identify its the guitarists amp, so he can play acoustically.

if its your amp, dont use it, go into the pa, or even cancel the gig, its not worth dying for.

[Muddythespark]

The rcd will only trip due to a fault on the equipment it is "protecting". Yes it only trips on earth fault current and not on overload. You would need to use an RCBO to protect against earth fault and overload.
I assume you have an RCD on the end of your own lead/supply. The fault won't be with the supply( ie the socket your plugged into) as this is "behind" the circuit protected by the rcd.

Stop playing and turn off your equipment and seek an amp repairer.

And yes have your equipment PAT tested....for the sake of £5-10 per item its worth it.

[thepurpleblob]

[quote name='Muddythespark' post='785065' date='Mar 24 2010, 08:00 PM']And yes have your equipment PAT tested....for the sake of £5-10 per item its worth it.[/quote]

Actually.... as we are technically "self employed" we're probably legally obliged to do it. More hassle......

[Les]

[quote name='skampino' post='784693' date='Mar 24 2010, 01:51 PM']So what's the answer apart from wearing thick welly boots?[/quote]

Get a wireless system.

[skampino]

Hey guys, all my equipment is brand new so no need to have it PAT tested.

[flyfisher]

If a fuse blows or an MCB or RCD trips then the normal practice is to replace the fuse or reset the MCB or RCD. Such things can ocassionally happen. BUT, if the same thing immediately happens again then there's a potentially serious fault somewhere.

Regarding RCDs, it's worth understanding how they work. Basically, they monitor all the current flowing in the live wire and check that the same amount of current is flowing in the neutral wire. If less current is flowing in the neutral wire then the 'missing' current must be flowing somewhere else - which could mean through you - and the RCD will trip.

Understanding this, it follows that if you put one finger on the live conductor and another on the neutral then the RCD will NOT trip, because there won't be any current imbalance; all the current going down the live will go through you and then back down the neutral conductor.

That's no reason not to use them - in most fault conditions they are an extremely valuable, life-saving safety device - but don't belive you are immortal just because your rig is plugged into one.

[Les]

[quote name='skampino' post='785361' date='Mar 25 2010, 12:05 AM']Hey guys, all my equipment is brand new so no need to have it PAT tested.[/quote]


So ? What are you going to do ?