Replace my old SM400..??

[JTUK]

As the title, really.

I have had my SWR SM400 for nigh on 20 years and it has been a great servant. I have only beaten it up the once
when it fell over under power but as it is so well made, it was easy to fix once I found a decent tech. His comments on the internal workings were
very good so I think a replacement has quite a standard to live upto.

So... given that the only reason to upgrade would be a increase in power, maybe to 500watts.

Current specs,

400watts into 4 ohms
2x200 watts in 4 ohms stereo.
Valve pre.
Inbuilt X-over for bi-amp... which I was keen to use, but 200 watts isn't really enough.

USA made with quality parts..

oh, and the units weighs in at around 18lbs so that is a plus once it is racked-up..

So, ideally a 2 unit rack mounted unit...twin channel might be nice, but I am not a big fan of effects and like a simple signal chain.

So, in the frame atm are
SM900...so I can retain that great Jazz and SWR tone...IMV
Thunderfunk TF
or Aguilar AG

The latter two do not have valve stages IIRC..

Thoughts and opinions/suggestions, please

Thanks in advance

[Rich]

The SM900 is a great amp, I had one and loved it, BUT it weighs over twice as much as your 400...

[JTUK]

[quote name='Rich' post='778471' date='Mar 18 2010, 12:26 PM']The SM900 is a great amp, I had one and loved it, BUT it weighs over twice as much as your 400...[/quote]


Was sooo tempted by that... and the weight was the only thing that made me stall.
I always wanted one.

38lbs in a Gator might not have been the worse for the bigger gigs, it is about the weight of my 2x10 which I find light for a cab.

[gillento]

I used to play SWR for a very long time (Redhead, Grand Prix, ST220, SM500...)

Now I really enjoy Markbass. They have a twin channel amp: The LMK.

[url="http://www.markbass.it/products.php?lingua=en&cat=1&vedi=68"]http://www.markbass.it/products.php?lingua...t=1&vedi=68[/url]

It has been dicontinued recently, so you might find a good deal on a new one!

[JTUK]

I really like my mates MarkBass 210 combo but I am not so sure I would want it (LMll ) as my main gig amp.
Not sure why..just a feeling.

Well spec'd though so might need to put some time in with some of their kit in earnest.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='JTUK' post='778655' date='Mar 18 2010, 02:54 PM']I really like my mates MarkBass 210 combo but I am not so sure I would want it (LMll ) as my main gig amp.
Not sure why..just a feeling.

Well spec'd though so might need to put some time in with some of their kit in earnest.[/quote]

How about an F1 or LM3 with your Aguilar cabs?

[gazhowe]

Check out the MarkBass MoMark amps with 500w power frame. There's lots of options to build your own amp spec.

[bassbloke]

Nothing sounds quite like an SWR. I've owned a Bass350 and SM400 and traded up because I found both of them a bit underpowered and was concerned about how hot they ran. That said, neither ever gave me any problems.

So, if you like the SWR sound - and a great sound i is - I would suggest sticking with SWR unless it's out of your price range.

What about a 550x or 750x? Less features, but has the aural enhancer, parametric EQ and limiter which, IMHO, is the bulk of the SWR Sound.

[JTUK]

[quote name='bassbloke' post='778754' date='Mar 18 2010, 04:04 PM']Nothing sounds quite like an SWR. I've owned a Bass350 and SM400 and traded up because I found both of them a bit underpowered and was concerned about how hot they ran. That said, neither ever gave me any problems.

So, if you like the SWR sound - and a great sound i is - I would suggest sticking with SWR unless it's out of your price range.

What about a 550x or 750x? Less features, but has the aural enhancer, parametric EQ and limiter which, IMHO, is the bulk of the SWR Sound.[/quote]


I could be coming round to that thinking and may as well look again at SWR.
My SM400 runs really hot but it never does it much harm. It has been like that ever since I first got it from new.

Not too worried about price range as I would probably buy second hand.
The 750x sounds good and has all I would probably want a valve pre..although I don't know how much I would or wouldn't miss it..

Good call on the 750x...the 550x would ..maybe...not have the headroom I need..I play very light..and doesn't seem a current model but then again not looking at new, anyway.

Anyone have any comparisons between an Ag500 sound and Thunderfunk, AB'd with SWR..?

[JTUK]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='778665' date='Mar 18 2010, 03:05 PM']How about an F1 or LM3 with your Aguilar cabs?[/quote]


Not a bad idea if I wanted a light set-up... but I don't regard a 20 lb amp as heavy anyway and certainly no deal buster.
I can relegate the SM400 to a lightweight rig and it has more than enough EQ to make sense of the 12's.. hopefully. At least I will still go down that route and see if I can make that work.

I am thinking of an amp that will be 'better' than what I have in terms of volume/headroom and hopefully tone, if only to justify the switch/upgrade..
One good thing about SWR..you can run the thing almost flat out...never had to do this, but I would like some extra watts..

[BassBod]

I find my old ST220 sounds very good with more modern cabs. The old EA CXL1x10's are good, as is the 1x12. I also tried my modest (160w @8ohms?) ST220 into the Barefaced Compact (1x15) that was out on loan last year. It was very loud and full, a much bigger sound than you would imagine.

[chris_b]

Have you thought about Eden? Their WT550 gets really good reviews, as do some GK amps.

[JTUK]

No, haven't thought about Eden and haven't used it for some time...but I have used a complete Eden rig..sounded great at the time...but some time ago. Cabs were heavy..those XLT's....
I have SWR cabs..which I will probably change at some point so was thinking
of amps that are regarded as good matches with SWR for the tiime-being.
Not sure if Eden are a matched option... I always got the impression that you liked either SWR OR Eden... maybe my mistake, so I'll look at what they offer.

At the moment I am favouring SWR, Aguilar and Thundefunk..and need to research Eden and ..poss GB GK, and Markbass

Good stuff...
any more ideas...?

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='JTUK' post='780054' date='Mar 19 2010, 05:52 PM']Not sure if Eden are a matched option... I always got the impression that you liked either SWR OR Eden... maybe my mistake, so I'll look at what they offer.[/quote]

Not sure what Eden cabs would be like with an SWR head, but I can't imagine there'd be a problem with an Eden head and SWR cabs.. My SWR Triad sounds unbelievable with an Eden Metro!

[gillento]

[quote name='silverfoxnik' post='781193' date='Mar 20 2010, 10:51 PM']Not sure what Eden cabs would be like with an SWR head, but I can't imagine there'd be a problem with an Eden head and SWR cabs.. ...[/quote]


That sounds unbelievabley good!

I had a SWT Grand Prix/Eden MBX210/Eden XLT212 for years!

But nowadays I am more on MusicMan20's side of sound: Markbass/Aguilar

[JTUK]

Had a little play around on light hearted gigs. The SWR amp and the Sei Jazzes sound awesome through a few different cabs, 10's 12's and and 15's. I just plug the bass in and I'm off. No EQ'ing and I'll do that on the pre anyway.
Not my normal sounds but perfectly acceptable..big, full and bright if need be.

I will still go for an amp with a different voicing, but the SWR and GS 12's will be my new light weight rig for a rockier sound.
If I want anything more cultured, it will take a lot of finding on this amp at gigging levels.

Once I am done with the GS's trial, I'll check out DB's, either 1x12 or 2x10 and maybe Berg HS or AE 10's.

If the Markbass sound is similar to SWR, then I can discount that

[gillento]

[quote name='JTUK' post='782983' date='Mar 23 2010, 01:26 AM']...

Once I am done with the GS's trial, I'll check out DB's, either 1x12 or 2x10 and maybe Berg HS or AE 10's.

If the Markbass sound is similar to SWR, then I can discount that[/quote]

Well I have a Berg HS 210 for sale....

Edited March 23, 2010 by gillento

[Count Bassie]

Just a note about the SM400; I had one and found the underpowering problem was largely because of the very low roll-off of bass freq's on the Bass knob high-pass thingy (31 Hz). I learned to turn that Bass knob almost all the way down, pull down the first eq gain slider down at the same point and boost the low-mids pretty hard. That helped a lot, but the inherent problem sort of would still exist.

I think the SM400s was the upgrade that put that issue to bed, with a more thoughtful treatment of eq down in the lows. I don't think the rating is low, I do think the filtering was poorly executed on the SM400 though, and was the reason for the apparent low power.

I'll bet the 550X would be plenty loud. I saw a band in Miami FL when I lived there, and the bassist played a Bass350 through a Goliath-II cab. Old Precision bass. Loud as a nun with a bullhorn at a large sporting event, and what a sound...

Bryan Beller has a website, and on one page of it goes into what he used for his eq settings on that amp. It might be helpful, or at least enlightening to have a look. I don't have a link on hand, but google "Bryan Beller, SM400"...

Edited May 4, 2010 by Count Bassie

[JTUK]

Agree with the bass control having waaay too much unusable lows.

I run it at 12, same with the treble. Para is pretty much level as well and I haven't touched the mids there...
If I find I am lacking anything...I might boost one of those.

But I am running it at 4ohms into two GS112's and it is great.
The sound underpins the band perfectly and I can cut through whenever I want.
I have plenty of volume on the gain and master so I am keeping this amp, for sure.

If anything interesting comes up, I may well look at it...but as far as this rig goes, I do not need to spend any more money.

It is a classic amp and once you learn the little nuances on the enhancer and low end controls, it is definitely a keeper.

I'll sell the SWR cabs and maybe just build another mini 12 rig with a Thunderfunk amp as a possibility, but that is not a desire or need as such, just an experiment for if and when.

SWR and Jazzes just work.

[Count Bassie]

Geat you got it to work. I wish I still had mine, but I couldn't quite 'get it' somehow for what I was doing- I was too worried about blowing out my Bag Ends! Too bad, maybe I'll get another try at it, but I'll probably pick up a different model if I do get back to SWR. Doing TE now, and it suits me for the present gig. But I always did like what you could get out of an SWR.

[Musicman20]

About 10 years back, I REALLY wanted a full SWR rig. I still havent played through one but the tone I heard from various live bassists was excellent.

[Count Bassie]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='827370' date='May 4 2010, 08:04 AM']About 10 years back, I REALLY wanted a full SWR rig. I still havent played through one but the tone I heard from various live bassists was excellent.[/quote]

Me too! I saw a band in Miami, the guy had a Bassic 350 and a G-II cab, pushing an old Fender through it. His technique made it look as if he'd been playing for about 6 weeks... but he nailed it- and the sound about separated my head from my shoulders. Loud and beautiful! I was pretty stunned.

So why don't I have an SWR rig? After getting put off by my difficulty with the SM400 I ran into the TE head I have- cheap and by chance- and it sounds tight, warm and punchy though my cabs (Bag End S15-Ds). I find the Trace graphic eq intuitive to push around, which does my head good. What I have now has fallen easily into place.

I still would like to have an SWR head and that G-II cab. But there's always going to be something else to lust after...

Edited May 4, 2010 by Count Bassie

[JTUK]

If you talk to the Americans, then they are less keen on some of the more modern SWR amps.
Basically, all they needed to do..IMV..was rectify or reduce the sub element the SM400 put out. This was a huge power soak and that sub freq wasn't usable anyway.
I know the SM900 did that (great amp ) so assume the SM500 did as well.
I think the Redhead amp is good as a standalone, but where they went after that, I am not sure.

[Count Bassie]

[quote name='JTUK' post='827489' date='May 4 2010, 09:34 AM']If you talk to the Americans, then they are less keen on some of the more modern SWR amps.
Basically, all they needed to do..IMV..was rectify or reduce the sub element the SM400 put out. This was a huge power soak and that sub freq wasn't usable anyway.
I know the SM900 did that (great amp ) so assume the SM500 did as well.
I think the Redhead amp is good as a standalone, but where they went after that, I am not sure.[/quote]

This is pretty true over here. Yep, the 400s and then the 500 were major improvements that made the amp killer-diller.