Help: Annoying background noise from new Phil Jones Combo

[Mottlefeeder]

[quote name='Beedster' post='704781' date='Jan 7 2010, 09:11 PM']Mmmm, I'm inclined to agree, and not of course forgetting that it's a high signal to noise ratio that's desirable, not a low one, although I'm assuming 90db is pretty high?[/quote]
The signal to noise ratio is what makes the noise inaudible because the signal is much bigger. It is not really relevant when you throttle back the signal to practice in a smaller room.

Your problem is posssibly better described as having an equipment noise floor that is too high for your quiet environment. As a result, you may find the supplier claims that the noise floor is adequate for the amp's intended use, and therefore they will not do anything about it, like, for example, an amp with a fan that is always on. There is not much you can say to counter that argument.

I had a conventional amp with a buzzing transformer that I could only hear when we all stopped playing. It still drove me nuts while I practiced at home, and I ended up trading it for one that did not buzz.

David

[stevie]

[quote name='Mottlefeeder' post='704886' date='Jan 7 2010, 10:25 PM']I had a conventional amp with a buzzing transformer that I could only hear when we all stopped playing. It still drove me nuts while I practiced at home, and I ended up trading it for one that did not buzz.[/quote]

Me too. I couldn't hear it when I was playing. I managed to fix it but it drove me nuts until I did.

Another thing, what if this noise gets worse? Having already agreed to accept an amp with a noticeable background noise, you will then have to prove that the noise is louder than it was originally. Not an easy thing to do.

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='Mottlefeeder' post='704886' date='Jan 7 2010, 10:25 PM']I had a conventional amp with a buzzing transformer that I could only hear when we all stopped playing. It still drove me nuts while I practiced at home, and I ended up trading it for one that did not buzz.

David[/quote]
Me too, with an Eden nemesis NA650..Apparently, it's an inherent design fault in the Nemesis range.

Isn't it crazy that some supposedly 'hi-end' manufacturers don't seem to care enough about their quality control, their reputation or their customers!

Chris - if you've already emailed them and you don't get a satisfactory response, you should ask for your money back.

Good luck with it!

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='Beedster' post='704167' date='Jan 7 2010, 08:59 AM'], he's now come back to me reporting a phone conversation with Phil Jones himself, in which it was determined that the noise is normal for the Flightcase and for Class D amplifiers generally (which is apparently why I don't get similar noise problems with other, larger, amps).
Am I being fed some BS here, or should I just accept the noise as perhaps the only limitation of an otherwise pretty good piece of kit?
Thanks
Chris[/quote]
BS. It's probably clock noise from the power supply, which has nothing to do with Class D, and everything to do with a defect in the amp. I hope it's not normal to the amp, as that would indicate a flaw in the amp design.

Edited January 8, 2010 by Bill Fitzmaurice

[Beedster]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='705063' date='Jan 8 2010, 12:56 AM']BS. It's probably clock noise from the power supply, which has nothing to do with Class D, and everything to do with a defect in the amp. I hope it's not normal to the amp, as that would indicate a flaw in the amp design.[/quote]

Hi Bill Many thanks for such an authoritative response. The UK importer initially offered to replace the 'power supply board' on this amp, but that offer was then withdrawn when PJB apparently intervened stating that the noise was usual for this amp. Messy approach all things considered?

Does anyone out there own a PJB Flightcase and if so, could they let me know if this noise is present on theirs also?

Cheers

Chris

[Nick80]

I had the same thing with an Ashdown Superfly, another class D. Squealing that didn't alter with location, volume, power etc. Just very irritating practising at home. The power board was replaced, still the same. I was about ready to smash the thing to bits it was annoying me that much so I part ex'ed it for a different amp.

[xgsjx]

Take it back & get your money back. This you are entitled to do & the onus is on the trader to prove it isn't faulty.
Tell the trader politely that the noise is irritating you & that you want a refund.

Again, this falls under the Sale of Goods Act.

[Beedster]

Thanks guys

I should mention that the dealer is being very straight and has offered a no hassle return. The problem is that the amp would be perfect if not for the noise issue, so I want to know whether I should get a replacement, upgrade to the Super Flightcase (a little heavier, a little bigger and more powerful but, according to PJB, without the hissing/whistling noise as the result of musing a different class amplifier), or forget it and get a Markbass Minimark. As I've said above, a repair isn't an option I'd choose with a new amp. I guess the problem is that without being able to compare my amp with other FCs I have no idea if this is the noise PJB say is there in all of them, or whether mine's faulty. I can't believe people would put up with this noise, but the reviews of the FC are all very positive, and as I've said, PJB say the noise is there on all of them?

C

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='Beedster' post='705390' date='Jan 8 2010, 07:51 AM']according to PJB, without the hissing/whistling noise as the result of musing a different class amplifier

C[/quote]I hope PJB knows the difference between amplifier classes, and that noise is not an inherent quality of Class D. Noise can be a problem with switching power supplies, and switching supplies are often employed with Class D amps, but having the one doesn't always mean having the other.
In any event, with the recent flooding of the market with micro amps one doesn't have to look to only one source. I'd be looking at alternatives other than just a more expensive one from the same source.

[Longmayyourun]

There was a Flightcase in my house until it went to Uni with my son last week.

I can confirm that it was completely silent when switched on, even with volume and gain on full, with or without a bass plugged in.

Said son uses it in the studio and on gigs and loves it because it is so quiet.

I used to borrow it when I could 'cos it has such a lovely (to my ears) sound.

Can't help thinking you've got a rogue one -hope you can get it sorted.


Edit: just been on the Phil Jones Website - one of the taglines reads (admittedly in relation to the D200 amp) ''controls cranked, bass unplugged, this is what you will hear: nothing.

This really was my experience with the flightcase too

Edited January 8, 2010 by Longmayyourun

[MIJ-VI]

[quote name='Beedster' post='705390' date='Jan 8 2010, 07:51 AM']Thanks guys

I should mention that [u]the dealer is being very straight and has offered a no hassle return[/u]. The problem is that the amp would be perfect if not for the noise issue, so I want to know whether I should get a replacement, upgrade to the Super Flightcase (a little heavier, a little bigger and more powerful but, according to PJB, without the hissing/whistling noise as the result of musing a different class amplifier), or forget it and get a Markbass Minimark. As I've said above, a repair isn't an option I'd choose with a new amp. I guess the problem is that without being able to compare my amp with other FCs I have no idea if this is the noise PJB say is there in all of them, or whether mine's faulty. I can't believe people would put up with this noise, but the reviews of the FC are all very positive, and as I've said, PJB say the noise is there on all of them?

C[/quote]

Hi Beedster.

If I were in your position I would go for a Super Flightcase. It's an all-round better rig.

--------

Ed Friedland demonstrates the Phil Jones Super flightcase amp for Guitar World magazine.

Phil Jones Super Flightcase
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk5iqx79jUE&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk5iqx79jUE...feature=related[/url]

--------

From its manual:

Speaker
Computer Optimized Vented Enclosure
Speaker Frequency Response: 40Hz - 15KHz
Speaker Compliment: 6 x 5inch proprietary, extended-range drivers
Speaker Sensitivity: 94dB/W/M
Internal Speaker Impedance: 6 Ohm
Dimensions: 12.6” W x 20.5” H x 15.75” D
Weight: 33 lbs.
Amplifier
PJB 250watt, class A/B amplifier with digital switch mode power supply.
Frequency Response
Passive and Active input: 40Hz -120KHz
Low Cut Filter: 24dB/Octave at 40Hz.
Maximum Output Power
250 watt RMS
Signal to Noise Ratio
Better than 98 dB (EQ off, Volume on Full.)
Impedance
Passive Input: >4MÙ/22pF
Active Input: >100KÙ/22pF Line
Input: >75KÙ
Pre Amp Line Out: < 2KÙ
Bal. Out: <200Ù
Levels
Passive Input: 10mV-2.5V
Active Input: 20mV-5V
Pre Amp Out: 1.2V
FX send: 1V
Bal. Line Out: Typical 600mV
Compressor / Limiter
Gain: 0dB
Compression Ratio: 3dB: 1dB
EQ CENTER FREQUENCIES
50, 160, 630, 2.5K, 12K at +/- 18dB

--------

Now is the time to nip this in the bud.

Perhaps the DB players on TB have a further insight?
[url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=4"]http://www.talkbass.com/forum/forumdisplay...sprune=&f=4[/url]

Edited January 9, 2010 by MIJ-VI

[Oldman]

I roadtested in Guitar Guitar 15 Months ago, the PJ, a Mesa Walkabout and an AER Amp One. The PJ was weak and clattery, the Mesa (1x 12) was excellent but I bought the AER Amp One as the best combination of Build, Sound and compactness.

[BB2000]

Chris, I had a flight case for a couple of weeks that I got in a trade. No whistling whatsoever. And whistling certainly isn't inherent in Class-D amps or switching power supplies (I design this kind of stuff for a living). Having said that, it's a fact that there are brands of amps on the market are so poorly designed that they do produce all sorts of artifacts.

[Beedster]

Thanks guys. Well I've emailed Phil Jones' support twice and have had no response - not the great customer service I'd heard about. I'll keep you posted

C

[pal1972]

ive git a briefcase and havent noticed any untoward noise from it yet!!

[lonestar]

[quote name='Beedster' post='708010' date='Jan 10 2010, 06:59 PM']Thanks guys. Well I've emailed Phil Jones' support twice and have had no response - not the great customer service I'd heard about. I'll keep you posted

C[/quote]

Elsewhere on this forum a while back I remember that there were some very nasty exchanges between Phil Jones and someone else on here regarding his products.
Good luck Beedster!

[MIJ-VI]

[quote name='Beedster' post='708010' date='Jan 10 2010, 01:59 PM']Thanks guys. Well I've emailed Phil Jones' support twice and have had no response - not the great customer service I'd heard about. I'll keep you posted

C[/quote]

Is this the e-mail address that you used?:
[email protected]

If so, then perhaps this one might be a better bet:
[email protected]

With the impending NAMM show I'd imagine that everyone in the industry has their hands full.

But even so...

Good CS on the previous sale is what helps to groom the next.

Edited January 11, 2010 by MIJ-VI

[Beedster]

[quote name='lonestar' post='708354' date='Jan 10 2010, 11:18 PM']Elsewhere on this forum a while back I remember that there were some very nasty exchanges between Phil Jones and someone else on here regarding his products.
Good luck Beedster![/quote]


[quote name='MIJ-VI' post='708447' date='Jan 11 2010, 04:48 AM']Is this the e-mail address that you used?:
[email protected]

If so, then perhaps this one might be a better bet:
[email protected]

With the impending NAMM show I'd imagine that everyone in the industry has their hands full.

But even so...

Good CS on the previous sale is what helps to groom the next.[/quote]


Thanks guys

After sending a mail to his personal email addresss I received a brief reply saying pretty much ""speak to the dealer", and confirming that the noise is usual on this model. There seem to be a few guys on various forums with issues with PJB, Lonestar, could you (or anyone else) direct me to the previous disscussion here?

Cheers

Chris

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Beedster' post='708480' date='Jan 11 2010, 08:07 AM']Thanks guys

After sending a mail to his personal email addresss I received a brief reply saying pretty much ""speak to the dealer", and confirming that the noise is usual on this model.[/quote]

Wow and wow...

[quote name='Beedster' post='708480' date='Jan 11 2010, 08:07 AM']There seem to be a few guys on various forums with issues with PJB, Lonestar, could you (or anyone else) direct me to the previous disscussion here?

Cheers

Chris[/quote]

I stand to be correctet, but I'm pretty sure that was back in the days of Bassworld. Assuming it was Mr. Jones, it was pretty entertaining approach to making friends and influencing people...

[Beedster]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='708484' date='Jan 11 2010, 08:12 AM']I stand to be correctet, but I'm pretty sure that was back in the days of Bassworld. Assuming it was Mr. Jones, it was pretty entertaining approach to making friends and influencing people...[/quote]

Thanks Michael, that's a shame. I'm trying to decide whether to stick with PJB, either by upgrading to the allegedly less noisy Super Flightcase, or even a replacement Flightcase should the noise on mine prove to be a fault after all, or to go back to Markbass (for my small gig amp anyway). TBH I'm not feeling all that well disposed towards the former at present. Shame, because the tone when it's loud enough to get above the noise, is extremely good.

Chris

[wateroftyne]

I know how you feel... I had a Genz head that sounded great but buzzed like a swine. It's incredibly frustrating...

[martinbass7750]

I have an MB F1 which is class D and has a switching power supply - no noticeable noise other than the normal light hiss if you turn volume and gain up high.

If it's normal for this PJ amp and you don't like it, sounds like a refund is required.

Cheers

Martin

[Beedster]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='708509' date='Jan 11 2010, 08:36 AM']I know how you feel... I had a Genz head that sounded great but buzzed like a swine. It's incredibly frustrating...[/quote]

Cheers Michael

Yes, it's odd, but some amp noise deson't bother me at all (e.g., fans and hiss), but the noise from this PJB bugs the hell out of me. The closest I can get is that it's like having a mosquito in the room when you're trying to sleep; it's not loud, but it's constant and, well kinda insistent.

In terms of identifying the cause, when I turn off the power, the pitch of the noise rises fro about a second until the power dies. Anyone got any ideas?

C

[Beedster]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='708509' date='Jan 11 2010, 08:36 AM']I know how you feel... I had a Genz head that sounded great but buzzed like a swine. It's incredibly frustrating...[/quote]

BTW, did you keep it?

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Beedster' post='708519' date='Jan 11 2010, 08:47 AM']BTW, did you keep it?[/quote]
Nah... Genz were great, and really worked to get to the bottom of it. Never did solve it, so they took it back. Shame.