Help: Annoying background noise from new Phil Jones Combo

[MIJ-VI]

Before buying a PJB BG-150 in the U.K. or continental Europe please read this:

[url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8602392&postcount=11"]http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showpost.php...mp;postcount=11[/url]

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='MIJ-VI' post='727580' date='Jan 28 2010, 01:43 PM']Before buying a PJB BG-150 in the U.K. or continental Europe please read this:

[url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8602392&postcount=11"]http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showpost.php...mp;postcount=11[/url][/quote]

Wow.. that's pretty bad. Do they not test stuff? If they're aware of it, why do they still sell it in the UK?

Isn't the company now called 'Phil Jones Pure Sound'?

[BottomEndian]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='727591' date='Jan 28 2010, 01:49 PM']Wow.. that's pretty bad. Do they not test stuff? If they're aware of it, why do they still sell it in the UK?[/quote]
+1 on all of this. They expect you to shell out for a step-down transformer in order to make the amp fit for purpose? Bonkers.

[obbm]

This whole problem raises another issue. Presumably this product must have a "CE Mark" to be legally sold in Europe.

Maybe PJB just put the stickers on and hope that no-one ever checks/asks if it has been correctly tested and certified.

If it's generating that amount of audible noise, just how much RF interference is it putting out. I used to have terrible troubles with my Epifani UL502 wiping out radio reception whenever it was on.

Is it a case of US manufacturers thumbing their noses to the law?

[MIJ-VI]

I would expect that Phil Jones will remedy this Class D problem in his future Class D designs.

It is worth noting that Chris seems quite pleased with his BG-300--a Class A/B amp.

It'll be interesting to learn how PJB's latest rigs work out.

[Beedster]

I returned my Flightcase, and now I've sold my Superflightcase. Phil Jones is a good guy who was very helpful with my issues. However, I can't help thinking that, like so many manufacturers, he has to rush stuff to market, and at a lower price than perhaps he'd wish, to remain competitive. My Flightcase was shocking to be honest, not only was it noisy to run but it was also, ironically, pretty quiet for an amplifier rated at 150w, and almost unusable as anything other than a practice amp. The Super Flightcase however was outstanding, sublime tone and great volume, a different deal, and at only 100w more (I've sold it for completely unrelated reasons that I won't go into here). I don't get the inconsistency to be honest, so I guess the Flightcase may have had more than one fault. Certainly I find it odd that they use different classes of amps in two products that are marketed as simply different versions of each other? Anyway, it annoys me that people were aware of these issues a fair while back, BUT STILL SELL THE GEAR. I won't mention names, but I was told by the dealer from whom I bought the Flightcase, and this was over a month ago, that a step-down/step-up transformer might solve the issues. I said no way, give me my money back, and they did. But they're still selling the model in question, knowing that this is an issue in UK models?

[Longmayyourun]

It's of no consequence really, but I'm curious to know, in the light of everything that's come up in this thread, if something has changed in the Flightcase design. As I said in an earlier post the one I bought for my son (two years ago now) was completely silent - not a whisper of hiss or static - and it seems unlikely that I bought the only good one. (maybe the electric down here in Cornwall is nearer 120 than 240 )

[Beedster]

[quote name='Longmayyourun' post='728068' date='Jan 28 2010, 08:26 PM']It's of no consequence really, but I'm curious to know, in the light of everything that's come up in this thread, if something has changed in the Flightcase design. As I said in an earlier post the one I bought for my son (two years ago now) was completely silent - not a whisper of hiss or static - and it seems unlikely that I bought the only good one. (maybe the electric down here in Cornwall is nearer 120 than 240 )[/quote]

Well, I kinda alluded to it above, but it was suggested to me, by someone that might know, that PJB and a few other manufacturers are using cheaper components now. Just hearsay of course......

[Longmayyourun]

Hmmm... Does this mean I should reconsider my plan to buy a D 200 amp

Sorry that's a rhetorical question really, just thinking aloud - but I have been left feeling uncomfortable about PJB.

[Beedster]

[quote name='Longmayyourun' post='728092' date='Jan 28 2010, 08:46 PM']Hmmm... Does this mean I should reconsider my plan to buy a D 200 amp

Sorry that's a rhetorical question really, just thinking aloud - but I have been left feeling uncomfortable about PJB.[/quote]

A few guys on here own them, perhaps ask the question in a new thread?
As far as I'm aware though, those who own them are happy with them.

Personally I think PJB are extremely good, but suffer from being at the cutting edge of technology, perhaps the same way as Microsoft and Apple do. That is, occasionaly they get things wrong

C

[MIJ-VI]

[quote name='Beedster' post='727765' date='Jan 28 2010, 11:25 AM']I returned my Flightcase, and now [u]I've sold my Superflightcase[/u]. Phil Jones is a good guy who was very helpful with my issues. However, I can't help thinking that, like so many manufacturers, he has to rush stuff to market, and at a lower price than perhaps he'd wish, to remain competitive. My Flightcase was shocking to be honest, not only was it noisy to run but it was also, ironically, pretty quiet for an amplifier rated at 150w, and almost unusable as anything other than a practice amp. The Super Flightcase however was outstanding, sublime tone and great volume, a different deal, and at only 100w more [u](I've sold it for completely unrelated reasons that I won't go into here).[/u] I don't get the inconsistency to be honest, so I guess the Flightcase may have had more than one fault. Certainly I find it odd that they use different classes of amps in two products that are marketed as simply different versions of each other? Anyway, it annoys me that people were aware of these issues a fair while back, BUT STILL SELL THE GEAR. I won't mention names, but I was told by the dealer from whom I bought the Flightcase, and this was over a month ago, that a step-down/step-up transformer might solve the issues. I said no way, give me my money back, and they did. But they're still selling the model in question, knowing that this is an issue in UK models?[/quote]

WOW! I hope circumstances will soon allow for another (or something even better suited to your needs).

As for the BG-150? 'Seems to me that the appropriate response would be for Mr. Jones to offer properly functioning replacement amp sections for these little rigs on a per case/need basis as a means of bolstering customer confidence in PJB products.

Mr. Gallien did this when dealing with the extensive teething problems of the Gallien-Krueger MB2-500 with the result being a further bolstering of G-K's already truly impressive customer loyalty.

Perhaps residents of higher voltage (and other) regions would do well to bring along good headphones when auditioning a PJB BG-150 (or any amp sporting a headphone jack).

Knowing what I know now I'll be bringing mine to any amp audition.

[Lo.]

Sorry to throw my biased opinion in here, but I was surprised to hear some of the comments about Phil. I helped him out at NAMM in 2008 and use his awesome Suitcase+4B rig. I know how passionate he is about helping customers, too.

Phil's gear produces the closest sound to the instrument I've ever tried - he is obsessed with producing top quality gear and will be gutted to hear about power supply problems affecting perfomance. I'll let him know, maybe he can give an update on the issue.

I loved the Flightcase and Super Flightcase when I demo'd them at NAMM. They had a great tone but I agree that they wouldn't hold their own with a weighty drummer beside you. The "problem" with Phil is that he designs to reproduce such an accurate response from the instrument that you would have to cut the bottom octave (or boost the one above) to significantly increase your volume.

The way I see and hear it, most manufacturers ignore the bottom octave and deliberately pump the power into the higher frequencies giving a much louder result. I'm not saying other manufacturers' gear doesn't sound great at times, but I believe Phil would not compromise the design in this way - he really does have magic ears and a complete love of the bass (he's got about 40 of the buggers, last time I spoke to him!). Needless to say, his bigger cabs give more, and those Piranha speakers he designed from scratch are just amazing - I'm still not sure whether I can believe it but he told me he has NEVER had a request for a replacement 5" driver due to a customer blowing it. I must say when I'm doing any reggae and crank up my rig, the little things are really flying in and out, but so far so good!

Verdine White came by the stand when I was at NAMM. I gave him a Sandberg 4 string and plugged him into the Suitcase; within 2 minutes he ordered one for Studio use. That said it all for me - a bass-god like Verdine has every right to be completely bored with new toys, but Phil's little combo had him rocking harder than his stint on the SWR stand.

If there's a bass bash in the NW soon maybe I can bring the Suitcase rig down - you really have to hear it rocking to understand the PJ approach.

I wish I could get hold of one of these - sadly, I'd never get permission from my procurement manager (she's tough to negotiate with).

[url="http://www.philjonespuresound.com/products/?id=121#"]OMG I want one....[/url]

[MIJ-VI]

Yes, this should have a reasonable prospect of balancing with a loud drummer and a noisy guitar combo or two.

Anyone who can afford to play a boutique bass may wish to audition one of these.

[alanbass1]

Hey Chris, I always seemed to get an annoying sound whatever amp I played through. Couldn't figure it out until someone pointed out it was my playing!

[The Burpster]

[quote name='obbm' post='704308' date='Jan 7 2010, 03:30 PM']There is no noise/whistle from my PJB D200, well perhaps a bit of noise with all controls fully up, but that is to be expected.[/quote]

D, mine run through my 1x10" combo produces a little noise with gain and vol turned right up but noting I'm concerned about.

[quote name='Longmayyourun' post='728092' date='Jan 28 2010, 08:46 PM']Hmmm... Does this mean I should reconsider my plan to buy a D 200 amp

Sorry that's a rhetorical question really, just thinking aloud - but I have been left feeling uncomfortable about PJB.[/quote]

My suggestion would be dont let Chris's experience put you off the D-200....! I am very pleased with mine as is OBBM from what I gather.

Its not going to damage any church halls but then you shouldnt really be expecting it to.

FYI as an experiment I run my D-200 though my Mesa Walkbout Scout 4 ohm 1x12 cab and it was pretty bloody astounding...!

I may have to try a valve pre-amp pedal for the D-200 and I have a suspicion it may be a great (liteweight) practice solution.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Lo.' post='743629' date='Feb 13 2010, 12:30 AM'](Phil Jones) really does have magic ears[/quote]
It's a shame the guys that test them before they're launched in the UK market don't...

Edited February 15, 2010 by wateroftyne

[Beedster]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='745652' date='Feb 15 2010, 11:04 AM']It's a shame the guys that test them before they're launched in the UK market don't...[/quote]

All things considered, that's the truth.

C

[squeezer]

I've got a Flightcase BG150 and I've had the background whistle problem on several occasions -- and I've finally tracked down what the problem is...

It's not the amp itself, this is extremely quiet as has been said. What I have found is that the amp (or the power supply, or both) radiates electrical noise which is picked up by a bass anywhere within a couple of feet of the cabinet, the pickups are obviously sensitive to magnetic fields (or they wouldn't work) and this is what the transformers and/or inductors in the amp are radiating.

If you stand up in front of the amp playing it's silent, if you're sitting down right next to it you start to hear some noise, and if you put the bass down on a stand next to it while not playing you'd better turn the amp right down.

This is also why the whistle comes out of the DI output if you're using it, because it's being picked up by the bass not generated inside the amp itself.

So it's difficult to say how much blame should be attached to Phil Jones, or the shops that say "We tried it and it's perfectly quiet" -- they're right so long as you don't put the bass too close to the amp, so if you don't try this accidentally you'd never spot the problem.

Of course you could also say that amps shouldn't radiate noise like this which is true, but only once you've figured out what's wrong -- and none of the references I've seen to this problem have tracked this down. If you keep your bass away from the amp it's a terrific piece of kit.

[Beedster]

[quote name='squeezer' timestamp='1318282962' post='1400160']
I've got a Flightcase BG150 and I've had the background whistle problem on several occasions -- and I've finally tracked down what the problem is...

It's not the amp itself, this is extremely quiet as has been said. What I have found is that the amp (or the power supply, or both) radiates electrical noise which is picked up by a bass anywhere within a couple of feet of the cabinet, the pickups are obviously sensitive to magnetic fields (or they wouldn't work) and this is what the transformers and/or inductors in the amp are radiating.

If you stand up in front of the amp playing it's silent, if you're sitting down right next to it you start to hear some noise, and if you put the bass down on a stand next to it while not playing you'd better turn the amp right down.

This is also why the whistle comes out of the DI output if you're using it, because it's being picked up by the bass not generated inside the amp itself.

So it's difficult to say how much blame should be attached to Phil Jones, or the shops that say "We tried it and it's perfectly quiet" -- they're right so long as you don't put the bass too close to the amp, so if you don't try this accidentally you'd never spot the problem.

Of course you could also say that amps shouldn't radiate noise like this which is true, but only once you've figured out what's wrong -- and none of the references I've seen to this problem have tracked this down. If you keep your bass away from the amp it's a terrific piece of kit.
[/quote]

Wasn't true with either of mine, they just whistled irrespective of where the bass was, as well as when it wasn't plugged in.

C

[squeezer]

Hmm, just had another listen tonight and the whistle *is* there but very quiet, irrespective of all volume settings -- but I know it wasn't there at the weekend when I found the pickup problem...

There was a quote from SIr Funkalot (of Phil Jones) on the talkbass forum in January this year saying:

"We did have a slight noise problem when the AC voltage was above 220V. We have extensivly redesigned the main power supply board and now there is no longer a noise issue even at 240V."

I wonder if I get in touch they'll fix mine? Trouble is it's over a year since I bought it... :-(

Edited October 10, 2011 by squeezer

[Beedster]

Yep, poor QC means that some are lucky and others not so

[squeezer]

[quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1318283852' post='1400176']
Yep, poor QC means that some are lucky and others not so
[/quote]

I've contacted the UK distributors and they've agreed to repair it FOC :-)

[squeezer]

[quote name='squeezer' timestamp='1318544419' post='1403694']

I've contacted the UK distributors and they've agreed to repair it FOC :-)
[/quote]

Got it back today, dead quiet now with no whistle -- Synergy replaced the SMPS board with the new design.

Great service, great sounding amp :-)

(even better now I've switched to TI Jazz Flat strings, fantastic to play and luscious sound!)

[loweringthetone]

Had the same whistle problem with a PJB Double four combo BG-75 . The wonderful guys from Bass Gear sorted it - it was 'known problem' - Im told Synergy replaced all their stock.
Bass Gear replaced mine and its as quiet as a mouse** . Superb service. Thanks lads.

** Except with old passive basses ! See my thread in the Repairs section.

Edited July 25, 2014 by loweringthetone