Beedster Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 (edited) Hi guys I've got a series of small gigs on a very small stage coming up. With this in mind, and after a lot of research and looking around, I bought a Phil Jones Flightcase. Although the tone is extremely good, there's a pretty annoying low level whistling noise coming from the speakers that doesn't change with changes in any of the amp's controls. This noise would probably be a factor if the unit was recorded ambiantly. The dealer is being very helpful, but after initially suggesting it was faulty and offering a repair (about which I wasn't especially happy), he's now come back to me reporting a phone conversation with Phil Jones himself, in which it was determined that the noise is normal for the Flightcase and for Class D amplifiers generally (which is apparently why I don't get similar noise problems with other, larger, amps). Am I being fed some BS here, or should I just accept the noise as perhaps the only limitation of an otherwise pretty good piece of kit? Thanks Chris Edited January 11, 2010 by Beedster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I'd want my money back, Beedster, as it's not fit for purpose. Sounds like the company doesn't know how to build an amp that doesn't whistle. How useless is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Sounds a little suspect to me too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MythSte Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 [quote name='EBS_freak' post='704246' date='Jan 7 2010, 02:50 PM']Sounds a little suspect to me too.[/quote] +1 Ive used the Markbass F1 and GB Shuttle 6.0. Both Class D, Neither of which had any whistling! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 It would be straight back to the shop if it were me... I wouldn't accept a repair, either. Maybe ask around on TB to see if it's a known issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umph Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 does it do it with nothing plugged in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted January 7, 2010 Author Share Posted January 7, 2010 [quote name='stevie' post='704233' date='Jan 7 2010, 02:42 PM']I'd want my money back, Beedster, as it's not fit for purpose. Sounds like the company doesn't know how to build an amp that doesn't whistle. How useless is that?[/quote] [quote name='EBS_freak' post='704246' date='Jan 7 2010, 02:50 PM']Sounds a little suspect to me too.[/quote] That is certainly my thinking at present [quote name='MythSte' post='704250' date='Jan 7 2010, 02:51 PM']+1 Ive used the Markbass F1 and GB Shuttle 6.0. Both Class D, Neither of which had any whistling![/quote] Interesting, having checked the dealer's response there might be more to it "he [PJ] said that the Flightcase does produce a background noise because its a class D amplifier with digital switchmode power supply, all class D amplifiers have this background noise however the Flightcase has a very low signal to noise ratio of 90db which Phil claims is better than any other class D amp on the market" Does that sound reasonable [quote name='wateroftyne' post='704257' date='Jan 7 2010, 02:57 PM']It would be straight back to the shop if it were me... I wouldn't accept a repair, either. Maybe ask around on TB to see if it's a known issue?[/quote] I certainly wasn't going to accept a repair (although to be specific it was to have the power supply replaced by the UK distributor), as it could well end up worse than it started. I may wel check TB [quote name='umph' post='704258' date='Jan 7 2010, 02:59 PM']does it do it with nothing plugged in?[/quote] Well, I need to plug the amp in, it doesn't just whistle on it's own with no power Yep, with no bass or lead it's still there. I've tried a number of locations and power outlets also so i doubt it's interference Thanks for your input guys The problem I have here is that in every way except the whistle it's f**king perfect, seriously. Very, very small, two speakers facing forwards & two up, which as I literally stand over my amp on the stage in question, is a godsend, and the tone is stunning, amazing bass response from such a small unit, and fantastic tone shaping from the 5-band EQ. I bought it for live work and I'm sure that on even the quietest stage the noise will be completely insignificant (it doesn't get louder as the master volume goes up). It just bugs the hell out of me when I'm playing through it at home, and - perhaps more seriously - I have the nagging worry that if it's a fault, it could get worse. So.... All things considered, if the noise is normal for this class of amp, I'm inclined to keep it. I can live with it where it matters most, that is, live. If it isn't normal, and on that basis perhaps suggests a fault that could get worse, it's going back. I guess I need adefinitive answer as to whether it's normal? C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 [quote name='Beedster' post='704298' date='Jan 7 2010, 03:23 PM']I guess I need adefinitive answer as to whether it's normal?[/quote] Well, my Acoustic Image Focus head was Class D, and totally (I mean [i]totally[/i]) silent. Those little Ashdown things whistled a bit IIRC, something which was considered a fault. The fact is, it doesn't matter wether it's normal or not (which is isn't) - if it's noticeable during use, it's not fit for purpose. IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obbm Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 There is no noise/whistle from my PJB D200, well perhaps a bit of noise with all controls fully up, but that is to be expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjbass Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I have a pjb briefcase and have never experienced any whistling noise whatsoever. I'm not sure if the power amps are substantially different but mine's always been very quiet. It sounds suspect to me - especially coming from a manufacturer who also designs high end hifi. I'd contact PJB direct by email to confirm the info you've been told. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbassist Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I think there's a problem and would try 2 either exchange or refund. Cheers geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny-lad Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Beedster' post='704298' date='Jan 7 2010, 03:23 PM']I guess I need adefinitive answer as to whether it's normal?[/quote] I think the best thing you could do is e-mail Phil Jones yourself to confirm directly with the company whether it should whistle. You could maybe record a sample for him if you need to. I've done this in the past and they've been really helpful and always seem pleased to hear from the people using their amps...I think it was his wife who replied to my e-mail and in turn I contacted the UK distributor, as I had a problem with a resonant buzz from my AAD Cub. They sent out a replacement speaker free of charge, and it arrived quickly, despite my amp being out of warranty...and it sorted the problem and the distributor was just as helpful as everyone else I'd been in contact with. The UK distributor is synergy distribution [url="http://www.synergydistribution.co.uk"]http://www.synergydistribution.co.uk[/url], but you might want to get in touch with Phil Jones aswell via [url="http://www.philjonespuresound.com/contact/"]http://www.philjonespuresound.com/contact/[/url] so you can go direct to the people who should know best. Hope this helps. Edited January 7, 2010 by jonny-lad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted January 7, 2010 Author Share Posted January 7, 2010 [quote name='pjbass' post='704336' date='Jan 7 2010, 03:45 PM']I have a pjb briefcase and have never experienced any whistling noise whatsoever. I'm not sure if the power amps are substantially different but mine's always been very quiet. It sounds suspect to me - especially coming from a manufacturer who also designs high end hifi. I'd contact PJB direct by email to confirm the info you've been told.[/quote] [quote name='jonny-lad' post='704341' date='Jan 7 2010, 03:47 PM']I think the best thing you could do is e-mail Phil Jones yourself to confirm directly with the company whether it should whistle. You could maybe record a sample for him if you need to. I've done this in the past and they've been really helpful and always seem pleased to hear from the people using their amps...I think it was his wife who replied to my e-mail and in turn I contacted the UK distributor, as I had a problem with a resonant buzz from my AAD Cub. They sent out a replacement speaker free of charge, and it arrived quickly, despite my amp being out of warranty...and it sorted the problem and the distributor was just as helpful as everyone else I'd been in contact with. The UK distributor is synergy distribution [url="http://www.synergydistribution.co.uk"]http://www.synergydistribution.co.uk[/url], but you might want to get in touch with Phil Jones aswell via [url="http://www.philjonespuresound.com/contact/"]http://www.philjonespuresound.com/contact/[/url] so you can go direct to the people who should know best. Hope this helps.[/quote] Thanks guys, I have emailed PJB to confirm what the dealer has told me. I'll keep you posted Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MythSte Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 [quote name='Beedster' post='704298' date='Jan 7 2010, 03:23 PM']"he [PJ] said that the Flightcase does produce a background noise because its a class D amplifier with digital switchmode power supply, all class D amplifiers have this background noise however the Flightcase has a very low signal to noise ratio of 90db which Phil claims is better than any other class D amp on the market"[/quote] Class D switching (from my very limited knowledge) is different to normal class D. I believe the Switching mode power supply is whats used in the Little Mark 2 - And if there was any whistling present there im SURE we'd have heard about it by now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 MB f1 head and two 1x10 cabs. I pointing forward, 1 on it's back pointing up. Job done. No Hum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted January 7, 2010 Author Share Posted January 7, 2010 [quote name='fretmeister' post='704486' date='Jan 7 2010, 05:37 PM']MB f1 head and two 1x10 cabs. I pointing forward, 1 on it's back pointing up. Job done. No Hum.[/quote] Does anyone make 1x10s? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 [quote name='Beedster' post='704537' date='Jan 7 2010, 06:09 PM']Does anyone make 1x10s?[/quote] Tecamp, Epifani, Euphonic Audio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted January 7, 2010 Author Share Posted January 7, 2010 [quote name='pete.young' post='704624' date='Jan 7 2010, 07:15 PM']Tecamp, Epifani, Euphonic Audio.[/quote] Ah, quite a list then! I'm sure I asked the same question on here once and got a "no-one of any worth" type response! Cheers Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBod Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I've not tried any PJB amps (only a few mins with a briefcase) but I have used EA and Acoustic Image amps. My observation is that they both have a significant background "hiss" that is constant and not varied with eq or gain settings. But, its only noticable when you play solo at home - in any gigging environment (even really small) you wouldn't know. My 20 year old SWR 220 is almost silent in comparison. I asked Euphonic Audio about it and they were pretty clear - the operational "noise floor" can be improved by tweaking the preamp component quality - but its only worth the effort/cost if it really bothers you in critical situations. In these circumstances I'd probably ask for a different amp from the retailer. If its bothering you I strongly suspect there is an issue with that unit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 [quote name='Beedster' post='704628' date='Jan 7 2010, 07:16 PM']Ah, quite a list then! I'm sure I asked the same question on here once and got a "no-one of any worth" type response![/quote] There's EBS too. None of them are budget jobs though. My Tecamp combo makes a very slight hiss, I wouldn't describe it as a whistle though and I didn't notice it at first until someone kicked off a thread on the forum. Seems to be a pre-amp thing, I'm not sure that having the distributor replace the power supply is going to achieve the desired effect. Gotta be worth trying another unit, surely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rasher80 Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Genz Benz do a 1x10 cab also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 [quote name='Beedster' post='704298' date='Jan 7 2010, 03:23 PM']"he [PJ] said that the Flightcase does produce a background noise because its a class D amplifier with digital switchmode power supply, all class D amplifiers have this background noise however the Flightcase has a very low signal to noise ratio of 90db which Phil claims is better than any other class D amp on the market" Does that sound reasonable[/quote] No, it is complete nonsense. An amp with a good signal to noise ratio has low background noise by definition. (background noise - signal to noise, get it?). Your guy is saying you can hear the background noise because the background noise is low. Utter twaddle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted January 7, 2010 Author Share Posted January 7, 2010 [quote name='stevie' post='704708' date='Jan 7 2010, 08:21 PM']No, it is complete nonsense. An amp with a good signal to noise ratio has low background noise by definition. (background noise - signal to noise, get it?). Your guy is saying you can hear the background noise because the background noise is low. Utter twaddle.[/quote] Mmmm, I'm inclined to agree, and not of course forgetting that it's a high signal to noise ratio that's desirable, not a low one, although I'm assuming 90db is pretty high? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted January 7, 2010 Author Share Posted January 7, 2010 [quote name='BassBod' post='704658' date='Jan 7 2010, 07:36 PM']I've not tried any PJB amps (only a few mins with a briefcase) but I have used EA and Acoustic Image amps. My observation is that they both have a significant background "hiss" that is constant and not varied with eq or gain settings. But, its only noticable when you play solo at home - in any gigging environment (even really small) you wouldn't know. My 20 year old SWR 220 is almost silent in comparison. I asked Euphonic Audio about it and they were pretty clear - the operational "noise floor" can be improved by tweaking the preamp component quality - but its only worth the effort/cost if it really bothers you in critical situations. In these circumstances I'd probably ask for a different amp from the retailer. If its bothering you I strongly suspect there is an issue with that unit?[/quote] Yep, that's the one, it's kinda half way between a whistle and a hiss really. Certainly it doesn't pick up in a band setting, but bugs the hell out of me at home! I'm waiting for a response from Phil Jones so I'll make a decision then. Thanks for the info Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I'd ask for a brand new unit. Then go from there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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