BOD2 Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 [quote name='MB1' post='6659' date='May 25 2007, 05:02 PM']i really dont want to get into an argument if it works for you it works,bear in mind though it might not work for others[/quote] That's ok - there's no argument, just a valid difference of opinions. And everyone seems to agree that whatever works for you is best for you. The original question was simply - "Are modelling amps - accurate ?". I would say that the answer is "Yes - the professional quality modelling amps are accurate". That's not to say they are better than the real thing - just that they offer an alternative for those that want to use them. They're very useful in a studio setting (we're talking about pro quality ones here, not the cheaper toys) and can be used live if you're happy with that concept as opposed to having a specific backline. [quote name='MB1' post='6659' date='May 25 2007, 05:02 PM']... with all them different amps you gotta be an engineers nightmare[/quote] Not necessarily. There's no need to change amp on every song - you might do a gig with the same amp setting all the through. If you do want to change amps then there are level controls to allow you to balance all the sounds to the same level - no problems for the engineer. You can also use the presets to balance different basses. Save two sets of amp models with different input gain settings and you could have one set for a low output bass and another for a higher output bass. [quote name='MB1' post='6659' date='May 25 2007, 05:02 PM']...sorry i come from the gerry mcavoy plug and play school![/quote] No need to apologise. We're back to "use whatever gear works best for you". It would be a very boring world if we all used the same equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Why should bassists be stuck with one sound? Guitarists use all sorts of pedals etc to get different sounds, if you're using synths then the sky's your limit. So why not bass players too? It's all about using the right sound for the music you're playing. I use at least 3 different basses (fretted, fretless, and octaves 8 string) live. All of them have very different output levels. At the very least having a Pod in my rack allows me to balance the volumes of the basses with a touch of a button. Also depending on the instrumentation of the song (one of our guitarists also plays keyboards) I have presets that tweak the eq of the bass to compensate for the sounds and mix of the other instruments - what works on one song might be too overpowering on the next and as Homer says I can't be mucking about with eq settings all the time. Hit the preset get on with playing the next song. Add to this that at the moment by backup bass for each type isn't the same as my main one, menas that I have a second set of presets to compensate for this. I don't know if the amp models I'm using are in any way authentic. However what I do know is that they allow my basses to achieve the correct sounds I want to have for any given song we play. And far from being a soundman's nightmare once the band is balanced up there should be little or more likely no more work requred FOH to get the bass right in each number. I can remember going to see a pop/rock cover band about 10 years ago where the two guitarists had all the guitar sounds for the songs they were playing down to a tee. The bassist however played the entire set using the same ultra-bright sound on his Stingray/Ampeg set up. This was appropriate for about 2 of the 20 or so songs they played and overall the bassists lack of sound variation let the whole band down. Amp modellers while still not being 100% authentic if you have a particular setup in mind, are by no means toys. They are extremely powerful tools that extend the palette of sounds available to bassists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB1 Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 MB1. 2 guitarists+ 2 pedalboards + 1 bassplayer +1 pedalboard +drummer= mush.would it not just be easier to get a keyboard player and take out two pedalboards from the equation surely theres too much going on there?whatever happened to keeping it simple?. anyway the question was are modeling amps accurate?,everybodys gone onto pedalboards including me, and to be honest i couldnt give a monkeys now!im off for a pint! enjoy the bank holiday!!!!! enjoy life enjoy what you do! MB1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldo Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 (edited) [quote]2 guitarists+ 2 pedalboards + 1 bassplayer +1 pedalboard +drummer= mush[/quote] Sorry to be blunt but that's probably the biggest pile of arse I've ever heard! Normally I can say 'well each to their own' but in this case, you're just wrong! Edited May 25, 2007 by Waldo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 [quote name='MB1' post='6794' date='May 25 2007, 08:40 PM']MB1. 2 guitarists+ 2 pedalboards + 1 bassplayer +1 pedalboard +drummer= mush.[/quote] [quote name='Waldo' post='6797' date='May 25 2007, 08:42 PM']Sorry to be blunt but that's probably the biggest pile of arse I've ever heard! Normally I can say 'well each to their own' but in this case, you're just wrong![/quote] Well that does depend on the quality of the pedal, leads and dare I say the players. I dont use any effects and use an EBS Microbass II to balance my basses. As I said above there are lots of ways to vary your sound. There is no right or wrong - just different. As to the original question it depends on what you are using it for, but if you are using a modelling amp to produce the sound and volume of an SVT it aint gonna do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB1 Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 MB1. Whos got a nice pedalboard then! you spend all that money on a nice bass, then defeat the object entirely by adding mush, a couple of hundred quids worth of mush? or is that more arse???how many settings have you actually used on this pedalboard can you make your bass go ya ya ya ya!or whooosh whoosh and why the f$$k would anybody want to? or is that the highlight of your set ? too many effects does not a great band make nor a great bassist for that matter. MB1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB1 Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 MB1. mr bass ferrett seems to know where im going with this,most quality bassists dont use loads of effects they dont need to.if youve got three members of any band all trying to be individualistic with the aid of pedalboards it can get too much, unless your into the art of noise,that is.most people probably only ever use maybe 4 sounds on there pedalboards,theres ussually maybe 40+others you could use as sound effects for films or to scare pigeons with, most arent even remotely to do with basses, there just the same programs from the equivalent guitar model ,which some guy whose forgotten to take his medication thinks might sound good on bass.then theres the amp and speaker modelling! deja vu anybody? MB1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 [quote name='MB1' post='6814' date='May 25 2007, 09:11 PM']MB1. Whos got a nice pedalboard then! you spend all that money on a nice bass, then defeat the object entirely by adding mush, a couple of hundred quids worth of mush? or is that more arse???how many settings have you actually used on this pedalboard can you make your bass go ya ya ya ya!or whooosh whoosh and why the f$$k would anybody want to? or is that the highlight of your set ? too many effects does not a great band make nor a great bassist for that matter. MB1.[/quote] Sorry, had to jump in here. In answer to your question, why not? Maybe some people like the mushy, overly effected sound - maybe it suits their music and it's exactly what they want. Playing with sounds can help create different atmospheres, and there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with giving yourself that option. Granted, it lends itself to some kinds of music more than others, but for those who do experiment with different tones and effects, don't question their validity just because it doesn't work for you. Sure, you might be able to get the tone you want from just a bass, an amp and a cable, bot some people can't - they might hear things differently to you. For examples of gratuitous-yet-tasteful effects usage on bass, check out anything Doug Wimbish has ever done. Or Pino's 80s fretless tone with gobs of chorus and octaver. Or Entwistle's and Cliff Burton's distortion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB1 Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 MB1. as i previously said russ each to there own! is it landscape gardening or bass playing that is the question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 It's true that piling loads of effects on your bass won't make up for bad playing. If you're playing with sloppy time and bad note choices, there's no effect that can save you. But a good player will use effects almost like an accompanying instrument, "playing" the effects and the bass at the same time - see Bootsy and his army of Mu-Trons, or Justin Chancellor and his whammy-drenched craziness. It takes talent to make the most out of effects. Back on topic for a sec, did Peavey discontinue the BAM combos (they're not on the Peavey site any more)? I've been Googling reviews of them, and they're almost universally praised... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ped Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 I played a BAM combo ages ago and really wanted one. Superb amp - as with most good things it has been discontinued!! WHY!! I made this model of an overdriven SVT and I am confident that it sounds better than the real thing in the mix of a song. [url="http://www.frozencloudmusic.com/~chrishiscocks/Line6%20Bass%20Pod%20XT%20Pro%20samples/svt%20Rendered.mp3"]http://www.frozencloudmusic.com/~chrishisc...%20Rendered.mp3[/url] MB1 - at the end of the day unless you have been in a studio and expected to get certain bass sounds for certain things then i wouldn't expect you to fully appreciate modelling software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Well I expect the BAM was discontinued because it was not selling - thats usually the reason. Like most Peaveys I expect it weighed a ton. Just cos I dont use effects it don't mean no-one else should, and I dont think anyone is saying cos they use modelling anyone else should. Bet no-one has got a Varaix bass though, great sounds but sh*te to play. Just one question though, I use an EBS rig because it is transparent and allows the sound of by different basses to be heard, although some will say it is coloured - but in a different way. I have played with rigs where the sound of the bass was smothered by the sound of the rig and always sounded the same no matter what was plugged into it. So if you use all this modelling stuff - does it make all your basses sound the same? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 No. As you said, though some of the patches will minimise the differences between basses just like the rig you mentioned, but in general (and I'm talking about the Bass Pod here because that's what I have and that's what I'm familiar with) think of it as multiple bass rigs (and mic'ing systems if you want) with a pedal to switch between them. What I like is the ability of the Pod to go beyond what the "original" offers, so if I like the sound of rig X but feel that for me it need a bit more top than than the real thing is capable of, then with the modeller I can dial in that missing ingrediant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 (edited) [quote name='bass_ferret' post='6903' date='May 25 2007, 11:22 PM']Well I expect the BAM was discontinued because it was not selling - thats usually the reason. Like most Peaveys I expect it weighed a ton.[/quote] I can confirm that it does indeed weigh a ton. That's why there's a Schroeder 1212L here and a Mark Bass LMK in the post. However. It is a magic box for a tone numpty like me. On of the Harmony Central reviews is mine. I like the amp. It's just so heavy and I hate the trolly dolly thing, especially when trying to move it sideways into the cupboard at home at 3 am after a gig BUT the tone contral (for that is all modelling is) is fabbo. I use three or four models on one tune. I don't worry about upsetting the sound man, nor do I worry about the fact that sometimes only one person in the whole room cares about the differences between a Bassman + 2x12 sound and a bassman + 8x10 .. and that's me. But then to 99% of most audiences my Shuker could be a Stagg Does it sound like the real thing? I doubt if two B15's sound the same as each other. and anyway I don't care. It sounds good to me and I don't have a producer telling me to sound liek JJB or Jaco or Entwhistle or a keybord bass. The BAM is discontinued. I've never seen another so I suspect low sales would be the reason. With the PODs and stuff and other makes doing modelling stuff I'm not surprised. It was a lot of dosh for a Peavey combo, if you were used to the price of TNTs and TKOs There's one here for £530. It's on the ex-demo and used list. [url="http://www.pmtonline.co.uk/shop/cart_view.asp?mode=added"]http://www.pmtonline.co.uk/shop/cart_view.asp?mode=added[/url] Edited May 25, 2007 by OldGit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ped Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 For my basses I use the following models: Bacchus jazz - Alembic F1, Eden 410 Vigier Fretless - SWR SM500, EA 1x12 Vigier Fretted - Eden WT300, direct. Each of these are monitored in ear. If I want to use my Trace v4 amplifier live, I put the pod through that too and have a patch for each bass which basically levels the volumes out, maybe a little eq on each. The whole thing sounds very transparent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOD2 Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 [quote name='MB1' post='6794' date='May 25 2007, 08:40 PM']MB1. 2 guitarists+ 2 pedalboards + 1 bassplayer +1 pedalboard +drummer= mush.[/quote] I actually would agree with that statement (although for some I accept that the resulting "mush" might be the sound the band want). I'm not a big fab of too many FX for bass guitar (certainly not all at once) so I use the Bass POD mainly for its amp modelling sounds and only use the FX very sparingly. As for guitarists...I've never understood a guitarist spending my £1000 on a great guitar, another £1000 on a great backline amp and then £70 on a fuzz box. Then when you listen to their sound, all you hear is the £70 fuzz box ! To get the same resulting sound it could be any guitar and any amp because the sound is so coloured by the fuzz box all the tone of the good gear is lost. Just my opinion/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krysbass Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 I think that if you really are after the trademark sound of a particular amp, then maybe that's what you should set your sights on. Having bought a Line 6 Lowdown Studio 110 modelling amp recently I have to say that the accuracy of the modelled sounds on offer played no part whatsoever in my decision to buy. Instead, my main priorities were for an amp that had some good sounds (regardless of what they were supposed to be), but that defied the laws of physics by delivering it in as small a package as possible, with all the connectivity options the Studio 110 offers too. Some reviewers have been quite scathing on this amp, but in the end it all comes down to what your personal priorities are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB1 Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 MB1. Hello the message i was attempting to get across is exactly what bod 2 has said ,but mine seems to have been misinterprated, and kinda blown out of proportion, ive seen many bands overdo things with too many effects where its just not neccesary.theyre nice to have but using them sparingly can often be more effective.sometimes its the less the more.by the way MR PED ive been in the studio on many occasions and have never felt i needed to use a mass of effects to get a good sound.there arent many engineers who are willingly gonna give you a crap bass sound,especially when its there reputation and often livlihood at stake.last time i was in the studio the engineer was actually a bass player himself which was nice! MB1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldo Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 [quote name='MB1' post='7266' date='May 26 2007, 07:18 PM']MB1. Hello the message i was attempting to get across is exactly what bod 2 has said ,but mine seems to have been misinterprated, and kinda blown out of proportion, ive seen many bands overdo things with too many effects where its just not neccesary.theyre nice to have but using them sparingly can often be more effective.sometimes its the less the more.by the way MR PED ive been in the studio on many occasions and have never felt i needed to use a mass of effects to get a good sound[b].there arent many engineers who are willingly gonna give you a crap bass sound,especially when its there reputation and often livlihood at stake[/b].last time i was in the studio the engineer was actually a bass player himself which was nice! MB1.[/quote] Are you equating the use of FX and modelling to having a crap sound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 [quote name='Waldo' post='7412' date='May 27 2007, 12:34 AM']Are you equating the use of FX and modelling to having a crap sound?[/quote] It certainly sounds like "natural sound of bass/rig = good, anything else = bad" which is pants, of course... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB1 Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 MB1. The original question was are modeling amps accurate.i dont think they are, my opinion ,thats why i dont use them,as for using other effects i use them sparingly as i do like the sound of my bass ,i dont wish to colour its sound with effects end of story.if you dont like it ,tough,everybodys entitled to an opinion. personally i wouldnt piss on a peavey bam if it was on fire,each to there own! MB1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassbloke Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 [quote name='MB1' post='7266' date='May 26 2007, 07:18 PM']MB1. Hello the message i was attempting to get across is exactly what bod 2 has said ,but mine seems to have been misinterprated, and kinda blown out of proportion, ive seen many bands overdo things with too many effects where its just not neccesary.theyre nice to have but using them sparingly can often be more effective.sometimes its the less the more.by the way MR PED ive been in the studio on many occasions and have never felt i needed to use a mass of effects to get a good sound.there arent many engineers who are willingly gonna give you a crap bass sound,especially when its there reputation and often livlihood at stake.last time i was in the studio the engineer was actually a bass player himself which was nice! MB1.[/quote] I believe the title of this thread is 'are modelling amps accurate' not 'do lots of effects make your bass sound crap'. Perhaps if you stayed on topic for the purpose of aurguing your case, people wouldn't get so hot under the collar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 [quote name='MB1' post='7794' date='May 27 2007, 08:26 PM']MB1. The original question was are modeling amps accurate.i dont think they are, my opinion ,thats why i dont use them,as for using other effects i use them sparingly as i do like the sound of my bass ,i dont wish to colour its sound with effects end of story.if you dont like it ,tough,everybodys entitled to an opinion. personally i wouldnt piss on a peavey bam if it was on fire,each to there own! MB1.[/quote] MB1 You are rather passionate about it and that's brilliant. I'm glad to hear you take health and safety seriously as well. Pissing on any electrical equipment, whether on fire or not, is very dangerous and is not to be encouraged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB1 Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 MB1. I was not the first to mention a pedalboard and they do include amp modeling on various pedalboards as well as on various amps. i dont think any of the modeling amps or pedalboards are accurate just my view, which im entitled to.you dont have to take it as gospel,Or get upset about it! FREESPEECH!!!AIR YOUR VIEWS ON BASSCHAT.CO.UK MB1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB1 Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 MB1. some good advice there kiddies from your uncle old git!take heed!!!make sure you disconnect the peavey from the mains supply before urinating on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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