Faked live albums

[iamapirate]

[quote name='Stuart Clayton' post='610280' date='Sep 27 2009, 07:58 PM']I think I read that Kiss's Alive album was redone in the studio. I think the only original elements are the drums and audience

Stu[/quote]

The thing is that the albums that I was talking to this guy (who will remain unnamed for now ) was talking about only the audience being the original part - and even then all of that has to be trimmed and faded and mixed together. So it turned out to be a studio album with a congregation singing behind it.

and people pay money for what they think they heard on the night!!! Isn't that illegal?! (cue The Funk for legal advice)

[Stuart Clayton]

[quote name='iamapirate' post='610292' date='Sep 27 2009, 08:09 PM']The thing is that the albums that I was talking to this guy (who will remain unnamed for now ) was talking about only the audience being the original part - and even then all of that has to be trimmed and faded and mixed together. So it turned out to be a studio album with a congregation singing behind it.

and people pay money for what they think they heard on the night!!! Isn't that illegal?! (cue The Funk for legal advice)[/quote]


I think I even read somewhere that one band had used audience noise from another band's live album (I can't remember who did this, one of the eighties hair metal bands) and recorded the music in the studio. I would think that would be illegal, wouldn't it?

Most live album has a certain number of fixes - Mark King said (in interview I did with him for one of my books) that the vocals on A Physical Presence were doubletracked to add 'weight'. I've got recordings of the original gigs that this album was made from and there is quite a difference once it's all EQ'd nicely and polished.

I also recorded a live album with Carl Palmer last year (unreleased at the moment) and we recorded some fixes in the studio - mainly bass and guitar things that weren't picked up properly.

Stu

[E sharp]

Stones - 'Love you Live' . Double album . The Canadian club side sounds raw and you can almost feel the energy . The other 3 sides from a Paris stadium (I think) , err a bit more ropey . Though to be fair , this is how they sounded live around that time - ramshackle .
I've got a Nine Below Zero album that I'd say is live .
And as for The Eagles , I once saw a live concert on video (quite recent one-no more than 10yrs old) , and Joe Walsh took a solo , half way through , the close up on the neck bore scant regard to what I was hearing .

[iamapirate]

I would've thought that it would be illegal to sell something as a 'live' album that says it's recorded live at x location, when it's actually all done in the studio?

[OldGit]

[quote name='tonybassplayer' post='609394' date='Sep 26 2009, 05:10 PM']Brilliant live album and I am sure that it is "how it was on the night" as there are many bits left in that would probably be taken out these days [/quote]

Yeah that burp in the fantastic version of "Darlin' be home soon" is a tragedy...

[Bassmingo]

Lizzy's L&D also has crowd noise from a live bowie album, as visconti produced both.

[Tee]

[quote name='EssentialTension' post='609323' date='Sep 26 2009, 03:52 PM']So what is the 'most live' live album?[/quote]


Pussy Galore - 'Live in the Red'
The Stooges - 'Metallic KO'

Edited September 28, 2009 by Tee

[slaphappygarry]

I do a lot of these recordings and some of them are touched up under microscopic scrutiny. Some jobs I have to edit out a train wreck which involves dubbing bits. Some Jazz recordings I have done go down and then go out as they happened.

Its very interesting to hear what you think about all this. 90% of the time its down to my client as to what they want.

Garry

Ps - I regularly thicken up crowd noise if it is a quiet gig / huge hall / pathetic response on a particular track / to hide some chat and I have never considered this as 'cheating'..

Edited September 28, 2009 by slaphappygarry

[iamapirate]

[quote name='slaphappygarry' post='610604' date='Sep 28 2009, 08:43 AM']I do a lot of these recordings and some of them are touched up under microscopic scrutiny. Some jobs I have to edit out a train wreck which involves dubbing bits. Some Jazz recordings I have done go down and then go out as they happened.

Its very interesting to hear what you think about all this. 90% of the time its down to my client as to what they want.

Garry

Ps - I regularly thicken up crowd noise if it is a quiet gig / huge hall / pathetic response on a particular track / to hide some chat and I have never considered this as 'cheating'..[/quote]
no it's not at all cheating. I think it's cheating when you re-record an [i]entire[/i] track in the studio because 'some of it was slightly out of time, and ok, maybe the vocals just went off here a bit, so we'll re-record the whole track. Oh crap, the drums missed a snare, right, in the studio you go'. I think that minor touch-ups and re-recording bits of it are fine, it's just when they muck up a track and, because its a good song, they [i]have[/i] to have it on the live album, so they re-record all of it and stick some crowd in it.

[alant]

[quote name='Paul S' post='609502' date='Sep 26 2009, 07:30 PM']Not sure if it was overdubbed but Humble Pie's 'Performance - Rockin' the Filmore' sounds very live. You can hear beer bottles being clanked during quiet bits.[/quote]

Fantastic album and the first album I ever bought!.

[dlloyd]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='609406' date='Sep 26 2009, 05:29 PM']I think a lot depends on whether it's a Live Album only, or also a Video/DVD.

What makes The Last Waltz so painful is that you can see what's being played on stage, while hearing something very obviously different through the speakers. If I'd only ever heard the album, I'd think it was great![/quote]

Rick Danko's playing confused the hell out of me for ages!

Apparently, it's been 'addressed' in a recent remaster... they switch to the original bass part when Rick's in camera shot.

Interesting article on the concert here...

[url="http://jmdl.com/library/view.cfm?id=1217"]http://jmdl.com/library/view.cfm?id=1217[/url]

[Stylon Pilson]

[quote name='dlloyd' post='610923' date='Sep 28 2009, 03:37 PM']Interesting article on the concert here...

[url="http://jmdl.com/library/view.cfm?id=1217"]http://jmdl.com/library/view.cfm?id=1217[/url][/quote]

Great article, thanks.

S.P.

[KevB]

If there's anyone in the know I'd be interested in Deep Purple's 'Made In Japan' album. It's pretty much a classic of its genre and I don't think much of it was fixed in the studio. It took them until a rematser years later to fix the fact that Blackmore was put onto the 'wrong' side of the stereo mix so I doubt they tinkered too much with it at the time. Some of the tracks on that album are for me the definitive versions (Smoke, Strange Kind Of Woman) over the studio versions.

[thebeat]

[quote name='dlloyd' post='610923' date='Sep 28 2009, 03:37 PM']Rick Danko's playing confused the hell out of me for ages!

Apparently, it's been 'addressed' in a recent remaster... they switch to the original bass part when Rick's in camera shot.

Interesting article on the concert here...

[url="http://jmdl.com/library/view.cfm?id=1217"]http://jmdl.com/library/view.cfm?id=1217[/url][/quote]


I read in Barney Hoskins' book, that at the premier, when asked what he thought of the film, Ronnie Hawkins stated that he felt that there weren't enough close ups of Robbie Robertson...sarcasm is great

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Stylon Pilson' post='610950' date='Sep 28 2009, 04:11 PM']Great article, thanks.

S.P.[/quote]
That's lifted straight from Levon's book.. it's a great read.

While we're on The Band & Live albums... Rock of Ages. One of the greatest.

[RhysP]

[quote name='KevB' post='610958' date='Sep 28 2009, 04:22 PM']If there's anyone in the know I'd be interested in Deep Purple's 'Made In Japan' album. It's pretty much a classic of its genre and I don't think much of it was fixed in the studio. It took them until a rematser years later to fix the fact that Blackmore was put onto the 'wrong' side of the stereo mix so I doubt they tinkered too much with it at the time. Some of the tracks on that album are for me the definitive versions (Smoke, Strange Kind Of Woman) over the studio versions.[/quote]
The main thing that has been revealed about "Made in Japan" is that it wasn't recorded in Japan.

[thebeat]

[quote name='KevB' post='610958' date='Sep 28 2009, 04:22 PM']If there's anyone in the know I'd be interested in Deep Purple's 'Made In Japan' album. It's pretty much a classic of its genre and I don't think much of it was fixed in the studio. It took them until a rematser years later to fix the fact that Blackmore was put onto the 'wrong' side of the stereo mix so I doubt they tinkered too much with it at the time. Some of the tracks on that album are for me the definitive versions (Smoke, Strange Kind Of Woman) over the studio versions.[/quote]


+1...another one of my favourites is Wilcos Kicking Television...such a together band that i doubt they neeeded many overdubs.

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

I wonder if Slayer's Decade of aggreesion is totally 'live' as described by many??

If a live DVD and album are released seperately,I tend to go with the DVD.
If one of my friends has the album,I get him/her to do me a copy..

[mike257]

Very topically, I've just been watching an Earth, Wind & Fire gig from Japan in 1990 (on BT Vision, if anyone wants to check I'm not just going nuts) and they do September right at the start. There's at least two bits in the song where Verdine White's right hand is nowhere near his strings, but I swear the bass is still bubbling away. It's all well and good bouncing round the stage in perfect choreography, but at least have the smarts to not be waving at the crowd or tweaking your tone knob when your instrument is still playing away, well cheeky!!

[leonshelley01]

[quote name='Stuart Clayton' post='610297' date='Sep 27 2009, 08:17 PM']I think I even read somewhere that one band had used audience noise from another band's live album (I can't remember who did this, one of the eighties hair metal bands) and recorded the music in the studio. I would think that would be illegal, wouldn't it?[/quote]

I believe that was "Live Like A Suicide" by Guns N' Roses, later re-issued as part of the Lies album.

For my tuppence worth, "Live After Death" by Iron Maiden is one of the best live albums around. Martin Birch said they recorded all four dates at Long Beach Arena, USA and the same at Hammersmith Odeon, UK and just used the best takes of each song and categorically stated no overdubs were used.

[KevB]

[quote name='RhysP' post='611134' date='Sep 28 2009, 07:08 PM']The main thing that has been revealed about "Made in Japan" is that it wasn't recorded in Japan.[/quote]

Sorry, I don't think that's correct. Can you let me know where you read that? I thought that Made In Japan was put together from 3 concerts recorded in Osaka and Tokyo on their 1972 tour of Japan. All 3 full concerts from which MIJ was generated from was later released as 'Live In Japan'. Are we talking about the same band?

[chris_b]

[quote name='mike257' post='611430' date='Sep 28 2009, 11:11 PM']....Very topically, I've just been watching an Earth, Wind & Fire gig from Japan in 1990 (on BT Vision, if anyone wants to check I'm not just going nuts) and they do September right at the start. There's at least two bits in the song where Verdine White's right hand is nowhere near his strings, but I swear the bass is still bubbling away....[/quote]
You're not going mad! Verdine White always seems to have rerecorded his bass lines for the Vid's.

[dudewheresmybass]

i have a friend who was the audience clapping on a peter gabriel live album.
apparently they were out of time with the performance, and the clapping sound was sampled and my friend had to sit through the particular song 'clapping' on a keyboard.

whenever i have done live recordings, i'll not re do anything. either it's good enough to release or it isn't!

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='dudewheresmybass' post='613104' date='Sep 30 2009, 04:58 PM']whenever i have done live recordings, i'll not re do anything. either it's good enough to release or it isn't![/quote]

+1

I've never had the opportunity (i.e. talent) to do a proper recording of any sort, but if i did this would be the approach I'd have to it.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Count Bassy' post='613181' date='Sep 30 2009, 06:45 PM']+1

I've never had the opportunity (i.e. talent) to do a proper recording of any sort, but if i did this would be the approach I'd have to it.[/quote]

Really?

So.. if you dropped a colossal bollock in the middle of a tune which completely ruined an otherwise great performance by the rest of the band, you'd sacrifice the song rather than take the time to drop the bass in?

I can't imagine the rest of the band being too chuffed....