Accugroove still favourable?

[E sharp]

Dan's (DOOD) interest in the PA option is one that I once looked into . I tried to find a flat response system , but could find non . EA stated that their gear was flat response - I heard harsh . An Aggy rig in BGM was described as flat response , but it's got a shed load of valves in it - thus colouring the sound . Eden used to say that their gear was 'pure' - it colours . Why do all the supposed flat response systems all sound different - shouldn't they all be the same ! A pure sound is subjective to the listener . I would have thought that a digital system would be more flat than a valve , bi polar or mosfet etc , although being a technical dunce of sorts , I hope to be corrected and maybe learn a bit . By the way , I use an Eden WT400 and Epifani 610 UL and this rig is not flat reponse , but I love what it does - all that matters I suppose . Though if DOODY ends up with one of Alex's cabs , I may yet pester him again for a try out as they do look mighty interesting .

[davidmpires]

I've gigged during a little longer than a year with a Acme B2 both outdoors and indoors, but I've moved to a Compact last week. I think both would be great options

[alexclaber]

[quote name='dood' post='563836' date='Aug 8 2009, 10:20 PM']An uncoloured backline, like a blank canvas that I can paint my tones on to, would be nothing short of a miracle! - Especially if it was in one nice neat (large) box that I could plug my outboard in to and know that I had headroom and more than enough volume to take on any situation that would require it.[/quote]

Whilst the Big One isn't as stupidly uncoloured as I originally planned, with the additional tweeter it's certainly better than most PA systems you're used to going through. Regarding the Acmes, now that I've done more measurements of my own systems I'm starting to suspect they're not quite as flat through the midrange as I thought. However they do go very low indeed - the tradeoff is that a single Big One will spank two B2s in maximum output.

Alex

[Uncle Balsamic]

Are you going to update the Big One to be more flat or not?

[alexclaber]

[quote name='Uncle Balsamic' post='564626' date='Aug 10 2009, 01:11 AM']Are you going to update the Big One to be more flat or not?[/quote]

No. It's just that it's brighter in the treble than it should be, which in practice on the gig helps you hear yourself better - plus it's easy to cut treble with EQ. One of my earlier crossover designs had a switchable circuit for flattening the treble response but it sounded better without it! I bet it's flatter through the midrange, especially at high SPL, than any other bass cabs.

Alex

[The Funk]

Ok, just to confuse things further, once you've got a flat response cab, how will it interact with the actual PA cabs on stage?

[alexclaber]

[quote name='The Funk' post='564736' date='Aug 10 2009, 10:17 AM']Ok, just to confuse things further, once you've got a flat response cab, how will it interact with the actual PA cabs on stage?[/quote]

If you're running a DI into the PA then your stage sound should end up more similar to the FOH sound than with a less flat cab. Sadly nothing is ever truly flat so there will always be a host of other factors to mess things up - damned acoustics!

Bear in mind though that flat on-axis doesn't really mean a lot - what matters is how the performance is at all angles.

Alex

[Dood]

I've been doing a wee bit of research this weekend, looking for ideas and certainly I am appreciating the feedback on this thread. Obviously Alex's designs are piquing my interest - I remember seeing Greenboy's Fearless cab designs on TB and watching the two designs progress has been very interesting and a great learning experience. Even the experiments with the Carvin LS cabs for a full range backline.

If I were to disregard cost altogether, I like these ideas:-

[url="http://www.hkaudio.com/products.php5?section=ps&id=10"]http://www.hkaudio.com/products.php5?section=ps&id=10[/url] - HK Audio -one single stack - an active sub, middle and top in 3 small equal sized boxes would be very easy to transport and would provide the FOH sound behind me - and there appears to be a fair amount of 'booty' on offer there. - I know an HK rep, so will be talking to him to research further.

again, expensive, but here's JBL with an active sub and an active line array sat on top [url="http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/general/ProductFamily.aspx?FId=9&MID=4"]http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/general/Prod...FId=9&MID=4[/url] - I like that design too as it is two smaller boxes that can be easily moved about and again, lots of power on offer for head room

As mentioned before, ISP Technologies offer a wide range of active PA gear along with the behemoth that is the Vector Pro active bass cabinet. [url="http://www.isptechnologies.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=43&Itemid=77"]http://www.isptechnologies.com/index.php?o...3&Itemid=77[/url] . I am due to meet up with the UK distributor some time in the next few weeks to try out the cab and talk about their other gear.

As I have said, all of these ideas are VERY expensive and will be hoping to achive my desires on a reasonable budget - but I want to investigate all the avenues to see which will suit me the best, be it Acme, Barefaced, ISP, HK, Fearless - what ever! I might just end up with a behringer stack lol lol!

[alexclaber]

If you want a modular solution then the forthcoming Big Baby and Baby Sub will sound incredibly similar to the Big One but be in two smaller lighter boxes, will go a bit lower and a bit louder.

Alex

[davidmpires]

If you are planning on going for a high end PA speaker check out K-Array

[url="http://www.k-array.com/?page=Red_line"]http://www.k-array.com/?page=Red_line[/url]

Expensive but very good.

[chris_b]

[quote name='davidmpires' post='564838' date='Aug 10 2009, 11:58 AM']....If you are planning on going for a high end PA speaker check out K-Array
Expensive but very good....[/quote]
And have a look at Electrovoice power amps and PA cabs.

[Dood]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='564771' date='Aug 10 2009, 10:57 AM']If you want a modular solution then the forthcoming Big Baby and Baby Sub will sound incredibly similar to the Big One but be in two smaller lighter boxes, will go a bit lower and a bit louder.

Alex[/quote]


Cheers Alex, just to add a bit of clarity - I'd be looking at anything up to a 6x10 size cab in a 'single solution' or up to the size of a 4x10 in a multiple box solution. Ie the Forge Bass thang is pretty spot on for a single box, including Tri-amping etc.

[Dood]

[quote name='chris_b' post='564867' date='Aug 10 2009, 12:29 PM']And have a look at Electrovoice power amps and PA cabs.[/quote]

Yes, you have just reminded me, the SBA760 sub is an animal and very impressive - I'll defintely take a look!


Dood.

[alexclaber]

[quote name='dood' post='564995' date='Aug 10 2009, 02:10 PM']Cheers Alex, just to add a bit of clarity - I'd be looking at anything up to a 6x10 size cab in a 'single solution' or up to the size of a 4x10 in a multiple box solution. Ie the Forge Bass thang is pretty spot on for a single box, including Tri-amping etc.[/quote]

I think you'll have to test out the first T'Big One and see if it's loud enough. Do you wear ER15s or 25s?

Alex

[Dood]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='565081' date='Aug 10 2009, 03:31 PM']I think you'll have to test out the first T'Big One and see if it's loud enough. Do you wear ER15s or 25s?

Alex[/quote]

Definitely ;o) It depends, I have both - 25's for the loud occasions!

[warwickhunt]

Not wishing to derail this thread but are HK anything to do with Hughes and Kettner? It isn't just the initials that has me asking; they are both German based and HK literature mentions 'Dynaclip' (tm) limiting which I thought was trademarked to H&K!

<edit>

A ha! Just noted HK are based in St Wendel in Germany which IIRC is where H&K are based... may have answered my own question.

Edited August 10, 2009 by warwickhunt

[davidmpires]

you can use one of these



and Alex you may want to put these stickers on, just for H&S issues

[The Funk]

[url="http://www.bose.com/controller?url=/shop_online/speakers/portable_amplification_systems/index.jsp"]http://www.bose.com/controller?url=/shop_o...stems/index.jsp[/url]

Just to throw these offerings from Bose into the mix. I played at my keyboard player's wedding with two of these for the band PA. Sounded pretty good to me but I haven't had the chance to try one as backline. It did look an intriguing option when I first stumbled across it.

[gillento]

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='565117' date='Aug 10 2009, 05:13 PM']Not wishing to derail this thread but are HK anything to do with Hughes and Kettner? It isn't just the initials that has me asking; they are both German based and HK literature mentions 'Dynaclip' (tm) limiting which I thought was trademarked to H&K!

<edit>

A ha! Just noted HK are based in St Wendel in Germany which IIRC is where H&K are based... may have answered my own question.[/quote]

Yes they are definitely related!

[Owen]

[url="http://www.dbaudio.com/en/systems/"]http://www.dbaudio.com/en/systems/[/url]

Mmmmmmmmm

[Dood]

[quote name='owen' post='567972' date='Aug 13 2009, 02:09 PM'][url="http://www.dbaudio.com/en/systems/"]http://www.dbaudio.com/en/systems/[/url]

Mmmmmmmmm [/quote]


Hmmmmmm! Interesting! ;o)

[Owen]

[quote name='dood' post='568216' date='Aug 13 2009, 05:46 PM']Hmmmmmm! Interesting! ;o)[/quote]

Very occasionaly I play through d&b rigs. I did a function gig once where they had hired in a rig because we said we could not bring our own. We arrived to find a Midas desk and a d&b rig. We had to set it ourselves. Never have I enjoyed such genuine, across the spectrum headroom and clarity for the whole band. When I played louder (5 string DB so I had plenty of dynamic range to play with) it just got louder, but the rest of the mix was not compromised in any way. It was like taking cotton wool out of my ears which I had not realised was there all those years before. And this was with a couple of 12" cabs. I really could not believe what I was hearing. They use their own amps and spk controllers obv.

Heinously expensive mind you!

[Dood]

[quote name='owen' post='568652' date='Aug 14 2009, 09:03 AM']Very occasionaly I play through d&b rigs. I did a function gig once where they had hired in a rig because we said we could not bring our own. We arrived to find a Midas desk and a d&b rig. We had to set it ourselves. Never have I enjoyed such genuine, across the spectrum headroom and clarity for the whole band. When I played louder (5 string DB so I had plenty of dynamic range to play with) it just got louder, but the rest of the mix was not compromised in any way. It was like taking cotton wool out of my ears which I had not realised was there all those years before. And this was with a couple of 12" cabs. I really could not believe what I was hearing. They use their own amps and spk controllers obv.

Heinously expensive mind you![/quote]


The kit looks really good - I've also been checking out the Martin Audio stuff as well. - But as you say - serious money! Would love to just hear it though!

[JD1]

Keyboard player I know had a couple of Martin wedges - sounded awesome. Also I did We Will Rock You at Durham Gala Theatre a couple of years ago and they hired in a load of Martin gear - again top notch.

[Dood]

Update time!!


Well, sat ready for me to give a huge amount of abuse is this little Active beauty!



and this chirpy little chap



[quote]ISP Technologies presents its newest edition to the rapidly growing Bass Vector family. Now you can get the same great Bass Vector performance, in a smaller and more compact package! Combining the low frequency extension that only an 15” driver can achieve with the natural, extended (but not brittle) highs of dual 8” drivers, the Bass Vector 115 cabinet achieves a balance of depth, impact, and definition that makes 4x10’s sound lifeless in comparison!

Available in active and passive versions, a single active cabinet delivers 600 watts to it’s speakers. When an additional passive cabinet is connected, the amplifier delivers a total of 1000 watt RMS to the two cabinets. The total system power can be further increased by adding additional active and passive cabinets. There is a limit of 1 passive cabinet per active cabinet.

The ISP Beta Bass Preamplifier is the ideal ‘head’ for the system, or the active cabinet can be used with other bass heads when driven from their line output, and the passive cabinet can be driven from virtually any powered bass head.

The high performance 15” driver is complemented by an advanced cabinet design featuring optimum volume and a large, deep tuned port. This helps to minimize the non-linear behavior and reduced low frequency output that small ports produce. The cabinet is tour grade, with Baltic Birch plywood construction, dadoed joints, extremely durable rubberized polyurethane finish, metal handle, and casters.[/quote]

[quote]LF Driver: 1 x 15 inch, large excursion, 450 watt rms.
HF Drivers: 2 x 8 inch, high sensitivity, 250 watt rms.
Sensitivity: 98 dB @ 100 Hz, 102 dB @ 1KHz (1 Watt at 1 meter).
SPL: 125 dB at 1 meter, long term.
129 dB at 1 meter, peak.
Frequency Range: 35 Hz to 5 KHz (-10 dB).
Freq. Response: 45 Hz to 4 KHz (+- 3 dB).
Amplifier Power: 1000 W rms, high current DCAT, fan cooled.
Power Required: 5 Amps x 120 VAC typical, 10 Amps max.
Construction: Baltic Birch Plywood, extensively braced.
Finish: Rubberized Polyurethane.
Dimensions: 30” W x 19.25” H x 18.75” D (without casters).
Weight: Active: 104 Lbs., Passive: 89 Lbs.[/quote]

I have the kit on loan for a bit - would have liked to have gotten the 18" 1KW version - but this will certainly be fun to play with ;o) Expect a full review soon!