Are Marshall really that crap

[Count Bassy]

I ask this because I was at a Roger Chapman gig at the weekend and the bassist (Gary Twig) appeared to be playing a Marshall DBS 7400 through a DBS 7412 (4 x12) cabinet, and to me it sounded great - Rich, but also crisp and punchy. Obviously the sound depends on many things, but the amp and cab must be pretty important, mustn't it?

Yet whenever Marshall come up on these pages people seem to be queing up to slag them off. Are they really that bad, or is it just that they're not trendy enough for the bassist around town to be seen with? As far as I can see the equivalent spec Trace Elliot, for example, will typically sell for twice as much as the Marshall, which either means that the Marshalls are no good, or that there are some real bargains to be had out there?

Would they be more popular if they were orange or light green, or had quaint dial type VU meters?

Edited May 12, 2009 by Clive Thorne

[dudewheresmybass]

interesting thoughts.

there seems to be a culture of putting down all kinds of gear dependant on whether it is 'flavour of the month' or not.
it does beg the question of how many people have actually tried the gear being commented on rather than blindly repeating someone else's opinion read elsewhere.

i admit it - i really like most high end marshall bass gear. DBS, VBA etc
however i don't find much in the MB series that i like.
Shame really - the concept sounds great!

[skankdelvar]

Never played a DBS 7400 (if my memory serves me) but they get a good rap (as above) and sometimes go for big money.

Used a VBA in a rhsal studio for months and it had a very nice tone. Trouble was it was part of an early, bug-ridden production run and kept crapping out like the other 3 the studio had bought. Also ludicrously heavy and about a million valves to replace.

As regards the MB's, only used one once and it just sounded like any other budget rig - didn't seem to sound very Marshall-y.

Marshall did themselves no favours some years ago - the problems experienced with the VBA's extended to the DSL and TSL guitar heads - IIRC, heat issues causing the boards to bend a bit and cold solder joint problems. Frankly, they've been lucky to get away with their rep even partially intact, particularly if we recall some of the other horrible tranny heads they've inflicted on the bass community. Funny, because the valve-state guitar heads weren't [i]that [/i]bad - for the money.

I just think it's not a big part of their business and they're not that interested.

Edited May 13, 2009 by skankdelvar

[MacDaddy]

I've played through a few VBA's and always thought the tone to be a bit woolly.

I saw a guy gigging with a stack, looks of valves lit up in the head (can't remember which model), only 300w and sounded awesome.

[johnnylager]

Rob Wright from Nomeansno / Hanson Brothers uses a 300 watt Marshall 3530 S/S head with a tube pre into a Marshall 4x12 guitar cab. He has a brutal sound.

Then there's Lemmy...

[coasterbass]

Think this question came up before last year.

I think that if the sound suits the guy on stage then fair play to him/her.

But, my personal opinion is that they are poor amps. To me they sound like the engineer went 'well we make good guitar amps, so lets just put a 15" speaker in it and call it a bass amp'

[Dave]

[quote name='johnnylager' post='486598' date='May 13 2009, 08:10 AM']Rob Wright from Nomeansno / Hanson Brothers uses a 300 watt Marshall 3530 S/S head with a tube pre into a Marshall 4x12 guitar cab. He has a brutal sound.[/quote]

Funny you should mention this, as I bought a 3530 a little while back in an attempt to recreate Rob's bass tone. I spoke to him at a NoMeansNo gig once, after reading about something he said in an interview in a bass mag that was repeated on t'internet, and he did say the 3530 has a "tiny tube" in it which was what helped with that crunchy tone. Just like you have suggested with the tube in the pre-amp, and yet I've taken the cover off of mine and see no sign of any such tube (and nowhere to hide one). I contacted Marshall about this amp and they have no info on it (useful). Promised to get back to me but never have. Rob said he doesn't use any effects and just plugs directly in, and I believe this as I do the same and if I crank it enough, the crunch is definitely there, but this seems strange coming from a solid state amp. Any ideas?

And so I'm not taking away from your original thread question, I have the aformentioned 3530 and a JCM800 Super Bass head and both produce great (and completely different) tones. I suppose as with any amp, everyone's opinions will be different, and if Marshall have had quality control issues in the past, then this will affect this. But I can say I've heard great things about the VBA amp from others on this forum, and my gear is quite old and perhaps from a time when there weren't such problems (but I have no idea) so if you like the sound of Marshall gear then there's no reason why you shouldn't go for it.

[cheddatom]

[quote name='Dave' post='486647' date='May 13 2009, 09:32 AM']the crunch is definitely there, but this seems strange coming from a solid state amp. Any ideas?[/quote]

You can get distortion from a SS pre-amp.

[chris_pokkuri]

I havent tried any of the more expensive marshall gear but I have a basstate b65 1x12 combo for bedroom practice and like the tone I can get out of it.

[chris_b]

[quote name='Clive Thorne' post='486539' date='May 13 2009, 12:46 AM']....I was at a Roger Chapman gig at the weekend and the bassist (Gary Twig) appeared to be playing a Marshall DBS 7400 through a DBS 7412 (4 x12) cabinet, and to me it sounded great - Rich, but also crisp and punchy....[/quote]
Were you hearing the amp or FOH? If he was DI'ed (and he probably would have been) maybe you weren't hearing the amp at all.

[johnnylager]

[quote name='Dave' post='486647' date='May 13 2009, 09:32 AM']Funny you should mention this, as I bought a 3530 a little while back in an attempt to recreate Rob's bass tone. I spoke to him at a NoMeansNo gig once...[/quote]
Me too, nice guy, nice bunch in fact. Bonkers, the bloody lot of 'em - met 'em at a Hansons gig recently. Sorry, OT.

[yorick]

I use a DBS7400 as my main amp through a couple of Ashdown ABM 2x10s and it's the perfect amp, apart from being heavy!!!

[Noisyjon]

I've used a VBA and their new 4x12" a few times at a rehearsal complex (Survival Studios anyone?) and have never been impressed with the sound with any of my basses through it.
As pointed out earlier it's totally a horses for courses situation but IMO Marshall's bass amps are a poor effort considering they do so well with their guitar amps.

JTB

[Musky]

[quote name='chris_pokkuri' post='486662' date='May 13 2009, 09:48 AM']I havent tried any of the more expensive marshall gear but I have a basstate b65 1x12 combo for bedroom practice and like the tone I can get out of it.[/quote]

I believe Chris Wolstenholme still uses one of those as part of his set up. He likes the distortion available from them apparently.

OT, but you used to see tons of threads asking about his set up. Is he no longer in favour or something?

[bigjohn]

Anyone who doesn't like marshall bass amps should try a JCM800 bass series.

They're great. Tight, punchy, loud and deep. The slope control is genius.

[The Funk]

I'd like to compare one of their big valve heads against an Orange equivalent. They seem to be more powerful but I've never heard one, let alone tried one out.

[cheddatom]

[quote name='Musky' post='486750' date='May 13 2009, 11:15 AM']I believe Chris Wolstenholme still uses one of those as part of his set up. He likes the distortion available from them apparently.

OT, but you used to see tons of threads asking about his set up. Is he no longer in favour or something? [/quote]

I think his gear got less interesting/we already knew what we wanted to know.

I think his marshall combo has a 15" not a 12".

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='jonthebass' post='486747' date='May 13 2009, 11:11 AM']I've used a VBA and their new 4x12" a few times at a rehearsal complex (Survival Studios anyone?) and have never been impressed with the sound with any of my basses through it. As pointed out earlier it's totally a horses for courses situation.[/quote]

Horses for courses indeed - the VBA whose tone I liked and referenced above was at ...er...Survival! We've probably played exactly the same amp

[quote name='jonthebass' post='486747' date='May 13 2009, 11:11 AM']but IMO Marshall's bass amps are a poor effort considering they do so well with their guitar amps[/quote]

...and that's the truth. At this stage in Marshall's history, what's the point in investing cash in breaking new-ish ground in a sector they've never dominated. And the same goes for Fender...

Edited May 13, 2009 by skankdelvar

[Count Bassy]

Thanks for all your comments folks.

I can now come clean and say that I've actually got the B65 combo and am generally happy with the sound, except that it can tend to get speaker flap on the low notes at volume, and its not really man enough for full band rehearsals/stage. Bassed on that I bought a B150 as it was going cheap and am also happy with that - no speaker flap at any volume or pitch, and a huge range of tones. The B150 only cost £100 on t'bay, where as the equivalent Trace Elliot (specification wise) would, I suspect, have gone for two to three times that.

I should also come clean and say that I haven't much experience of anything else. I've played through a Roland Cube 100 at my bass teachers, which I like a lot, a Trace combo in a rehearsal room which was also OK. - and I've played through an Ampeg something or other amp and an Ampeg 8x10 cabinet on a stage.

All of these have been OK, but I know that the Ampeg kit was about £3.5Ks worth, so you'd expect it to be good wouldn't you.


Re: "Were you hearing the amp or FOH? If he was DI'ed (and he probably would have been) maybe you weren't hearing the amp at all."

Certainly some front of house (but don't know how much) as I was stood about 3/4 the way down the (village) hall (I think you you get a better sound than stood at the front).

[harvey1-8]

I agree with the flavour of the month comment, go into GAK in Brighton and listen to the staff talk crap about Marshall and Trace bass amps. I guess it's their opinion though. From my experience the Marshall valve and solid state amps are worlds apart.

The guitarist in my band uses a '82 JCM800 and it is without a doubt the nicest Marshall I have heard, if not the nicest amp I've heard. I like it so much that I'd whip up the JCM800 Bass head on the for sale section if I could afford it.

OT: for all things Chris Wolstenholme look [url="http://www.musewiki.org/Bass"]here[/url]

[cheddatom]

I have played the B150 and I did like it but I didn't think it was loud enough for my needs.

[maxrossell]

Yeah, there's a lot of back-and-forth about Marshall guitar amps, too. Some people just hate 'em, which I personally don't understand because they're all pretty different from each other. I think it's because they all look kind of the same, black tolex, gold front panel, white logo. I wasn't really sold on the brand until I tried one of the new Vintage Modern series, the 2x12 50w combo, it just blew me away. Never really tried any of their bass gear either, although the higher-end stuff tends to be quite pricey so may lose out on direct comparison with cheaper high-end models by other brands.

[ironside1966]

IMHE blanket comments like ****** is crap tends to come from younger and inexperienced players it is all a matter of taste. some amps compliment some instruments more then others

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='ironside1966' post='487030' date='May 13 2009, 04:12 PM']IMHE blanket comments like ****** is crap tends to come from younger and inexperienced players it is all a matter of taste. some amps compliment some instruments more then others[/quote]

...on here, age and experience is no impediment when it comes to talking bollocks.

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='487016' date='May 13 2009, 03:59 PM']I have played the B150 and I did like it but I didn't think it was loud enough for my needs.[/quote]

It's loud enough for me currently, but I can envisage situations where I would need more, unless it went through the PA. (If PA is available then I'd always put it through that anyway, otherwise how can the sound man do his job?)

Again, re the volume, I have found that I end up plugging an active bass into the passive input, and have the gain pretty high. In this way you can get a clean sound via the SS pre, or a nicely distorted sound via the valve pre. I've also found that you can push the overall volume up by pushing the Equaliser settings towards the top. Even like this I haven't had any hint of unwanted distortion or speaker flap.