Overpriced or investment?

[OliverBlackman]

Prices of basses are now crazy IMO and even the standard US made basses now feel out of reach.

 

Take the standard series US made Fender P. In 2008 it was listed at $1600 - roughly £850 at the time. Now the professional II are nearly £2k on their website. Where’s the difference?
 

If the price had followed inflation since 2008, BoE calculations has 2021 price at £1.2k. 
 

With many salaries not following suit, it’s no wonder (pandemic aside) instrument sales have been declining. 

[warwickhunt]

Errrrm... don't buy it!  If your research shows they are extracting the urine and it is higher than inflation et al, don't buy it and the price will come down... or they'll go bust!  

[Lozz196]

Buy used - the US Professionals go for around £1000 to £1300. US Standards of the immediate range before are a bit less.

[Clarky]

Also the US dollar has appreciated massively vs £ since 2008. $1600 might have translated to £850 back then but today its worth about £1300. 

[ambient]

If you really want a Fender then buy used. I’m of the opinion that they’ve always been massively overpriced anyway.

 

 

[Boodang]

For mass produced basses made on a cnc machine, I agree it's taking the p*ss. Instead, find a luthier, get something special made and you'll still have change in your pocket.

My custom walnut jazz costs way less than a Fender and couldn't be happier. 

Edited August 9, 2022 by Boodang

[Burns-bass]

10 hours ago, OliverBlackman said:

Prices of basses are now crazy IMO and even the standard US made basses now feel out of reach.

 

Take the standard series US made Fender P. In 2008 it was listed at $1600 - roughly £850 at the time. Now the professional II are nearly £2k on their website. Where’s the difference?
 

If the price had followed inflation since 2008, BoE calculations has 2021 price at £1.2k. 
 

With many salaries not following suit, it’s no wonder (pandemic aside) instrument sales have been declining. 

Import duties, raw material costs, wage increases, transport costs, lower production volumes…

 

Anyone involved in selling stuff can tell you how costs have increased across the board.

 

Moaning about how much a Fender costs is the same as my dad complaining that a Mars bar cost 9p in 1965.

 

So what?

 

Given Fender has laid off 300 people they’re hardly making a mint from building basses and guitars.

[tegs07]

6 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

Import duties, raw material costs, wage increases, transport costs, lower production volumes…

 

Anyone involved in selling stuff can tell you how costs have increased across the board.

 

Moaning about how much a Fender costs is the same as my dad complaining that a Mars bar cost 9p in 1965.

 

So what?

 

Given Fender has laid off 300 people they’re hardly making a mint from building basses and guitars.

As above. Inflation can be seen as a rise in prices or a devaluation in the money supply. When comparing different currency rates this erosion of purchasing power becomes even worse. The pound is weak against the dollar. It’s not a great situation for manufacturers, shops or consumers. I doubt Fender are particularly pleased that their costs are going up and their customers are going broke. 

[Burns-bass]

1 minute ago, tegs07 said:

As above. Inflation can be seen as a rise in prices or a devaluation in the money supply. When comparing different currency rates this erosion of purchasing power becomes even worse. The pound is weak against the dollar. It’s not a great situation for manufacturers, shops or consumers. I doubt Fender are particularly pleased that their costs are going up and their customers are going broke. 

It’s a good point. In the early 00s, one pound would buy two dollars…

[Boodang]

27 minutes ago, Boodang said:

For mass produced basses made on a cnc machine, I agree it's taking the p*ss. Instead, find a luthier, get something special made and you'll still have change in your pocket.

My custom walnut jazz costs way less than a Fender and couldn't be happier. 

Actually, I'm going to revise my statement... it's not so much that Fender are taking the p*ss as it's not such good value for money as, say, a locally made custom. 

As has been pointed out, a local luthier isn't going to have the transport cost, import duties, staff and other overheads. 

Given the value for money I think a local luthier gives, I'm surprised it's not a more popular option. A lot of bassists just seem to think in terms of what they can get off the shelf. Or maybe I'm wrong and it is popular, or not value for money... what do others think. I can feel a new thread coming on!

[BigRedX]

This might be a radical opinion, but...

 

Do you really need another bass? What wrong with the one(s) you already have?

[tegs07]

7 minutes ago, Boodang said:

Actually, I'm going to revise my statement... it's not so much that Fender are taking the p*ss as it's not such good value for money as, say, a locally made custom. 

As has been pointed out, a local luthier isn't going to have the transport cost, import duties, staff and other overheads. 

Given the value for money I think a local luthier gives, I'm surprised it's not a more popular option. A lot of bassists just seem to think in terms of what they can get off the shelf. Or maybe I'm wrong and it is popular, or not value for money... what do others think. I can feel a new thread coming on!

If it’s a keeper a luthier made instrument makes sense. When you go to sell it however you will lose far more than on a known brand.

Edited August 9, 2022 by tegs07

[warwickhunt]

3 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

This might be a radical opinion, but...

 

Do you really need another bass? What wrong with the one(s) you already have?

 

Heretic!  Burn him at the stake for speaking falsehoods... however be sure to burn him using G.A.S. as we can't actually afford 'gas'!

[Boodang]

6 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

If it’s a keeper a luthier made instrument makes sense. When you go to sell it however you will loose far more than on a known brand.

I agree, but unless you're a collector surely you buy a bass to play rather than look at! 

[Boodang]

10 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

This might be a radical opinion, but...

 

Do you really need another bass? What wrong with the one(s) you already have?

Sorry, that statement doesn't compute!!

As soon as I got my latest custom made (which I justified by saying it'll be exactly what I want), I was planning the next one!

[Ed_S]

2 minutes ago, Boodang said:

find a luthier, get something special made and you'll still have change in your pocket.

 

If it works out, absolutely. It didn't for me - I went to a well respected luthier but sadly the end result wasn't special at all. It eventually moved on at about a 60% loss. The same thing with Fender on the headstock would have moved much faster for a lot more money.

[tegs07]

13 minutes ago, Boodang said:

I agree, but unless you're a collector surely you buy a bass to play rather than look at! 

I’ve found I reach for some and don’t play others so sell them on. There is no magic formula that can be predicted on price or materials. My most expensive bass rarely gets played and I really like a far cheaper bitsa I bodged together.

[Steve Browning]

If you want a Fender, buy a s/h MIJ or CIJ. Prices are very reasonable for an instrument with exceptional (and consistent) build quality. Have to say I wouldn't be looking at anything else.

[Leonard Smalls]

8 minutes ago, Ed_S said:

It eventually moved on at about a 60% loss

 

I say your best bet is to buy a 2nd hand bass made by a well-respected luthier...

ACGs are great value, and most excellent basses!

[neepheid]

I've always looked at losses made on selling basses as rent.  In much the same way as I look back on the places I stayed before I got on the property ladder as simply places I stayed, basses I no longer own are just basses I got to play.

[Ed_S]

Just now, Leonard Smalls said:

 

I say your best bet is to buy a 2nd hand bass made by a well-respected luthier...

ACGs are great value, and most excellent basses!

 

Yup, if you happen to be in that fortunate position to acquire something that somebody else has taken the initial drop on for you, and you have the opportunity to play it before you buy it - which they never could because it was two bits of tree and a dream at the time - then you're probably onto a winner.

 

Personally I don't do second hand instruments any more, as every time I've tried, they've never ended up feeling like they're mine. So I'll just stick to nice examples of mass-production that arrive factory-taped and smell of new! 🙂 

[tegs07]

51 minutes ago, neepheid said:

I've always looked at losses made on selling basses as rent.  In much the same way as I look back on the places I stayed before I got on the property ladder as simply places I stayed, basses I no longer own are just basses I got to play.

That’s a healthy point of view. I would add is it ever really a loss? Once the time, enjoyment and frustration are factored in during ownership there are not many hobbies or pass times that are as cost effective!

[Dad3353]

2 hours ago, Burns-bass said:

 

...Moaning about how much a Fender costs is the same as my dad complaining that a Mars bar cost 9p in 1965...

 

[Pedantry]

Decimalisation in the UK started in 1971, so that would have to be 9d, not 9p (the 'd' stemming from the Roman 'denarius'...), but would more likely have cost 6d (sixpence, or a 'tanner'...) at the time, really; the equivalent in pence would be 2½p.

[/Pedantry]

[NancyJohnson]

I'd be incredibly cautious about buying instruments as an investment, certainly where the instrument is mass produced.

 

I'm not currently on the market for something I can flip for profit, but I do have c.£30k in premium bonds that my wife has said I can draw from if something came up.

 

I follow Hamer... specifically three digit serial# Standards.  Gibson.  Hmm. I nearly pulled the trigger on a Gibson Theodore (could have almost doubled my investment in under a year), missed the Slash 4 Les Paul.  Suspect that if the Gibson Kirk Hammett  Flying V happens - and it's a limited one - I'll buy one  (or two) of those and just stick it/them under the bed.

[FDC484950]

2 hours ago, Burns-bass said:

Import duties, raw material costs, wage increases, transport costs, lower production volumes…

 

Anyone involved in selling stuff can tell you how costs have increased across the board.

 

Moaning about how much a Fender costs is the same as my dad complaining that a Mars bar cost 9p in 1965.

 

So what?

 

Given Fender has laid off 300 people they’re hardly making a mint from building basses and guitars.

One might say that moaning is the purpose of this forum

Not sure you can compare cost of a bar of chocolate over 57 years with cost of a big ticket bass over 14. However you are right that they’re certainly isolated in doing so - many bass brands have gone up by a similar amount in that time. Scarcity of good instrument grade lumber that’s light enough not to result in a boat anchor bass is one of the biggest issues. Whatever the cause, it’s likely Fender is laying off people not because they don’t make a profit out of these instruments, but they’re simply not selling enough (and probably wouldn’t even if they were £1500 retail instead of £2K). It’s notable how few shops in the UK have any non-custom shop US Fenders in stock, so it suggest supply chain problems are still very much an issue.