glassmoon Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 Hi all, A question... I have played predominantly active basses since the start, and I feel comfortable with that format. I have had, at my feet, for the last 16 years or so, a pre-amp pedal so that no matter where I am, or what amp I am playing through, I have "my sound" at all times. I have it at the end of a very short chain so I can use the DI. I am in the process of upgrading my Cort GB75JH (I have Delano pickups arriving in the next couple of days) and I've looked at Audere Audio (who don't seem to answer their emails), Glockenklang and Bartolini pre-amps. Now I'm thinking about perhaps going for a pre-amp at the beginning of the chain instead of the onboard... a. it's 9v from wall power and b. I can probably get something like the MXR M81 for the same cost as the aforementioned trio. So, besides not having to bend down to adjust things if needed (I'm pretty sure once I start playing, that I don't really ever adjust actually), what is the advantage of an onboard pre-amp? My thanks for your advise, in advance Julian aka Glassmoon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulo m Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 (edited) A preamp @ the beginning of your chain of effects will appear to have little effect upon your overall collective sound... except for adding bass & treble. An On board preamp in conjunction with different p'ups will have a better impact... As for the manufacturer you quoted that doesn't reply to e-mails' personally I would look elsewhere. I have used many outboard devices' & you get just what you pay for... I have always kept & use the EBS Microbass II... superb functionality & the Tech 21 Q Strip has very high quality EQ & HPF & LPF filters also.... Its really down to your ears & taste.. Edited June 24, 2022 by paulo m Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassmoon Posted June 24, 2022 Author Share Posted June 24, 2022 8 minutes ago, paulo m said: A preamp @ the beginning of your chain of effects will appear to have little effect upon your overall collective sound... except for adding bass & treble. An On board preamp in conjunction with different p'ups will have a better impact... As for the manufacturer you quoted that doesn't reply to e-mails' personally I would look elsewhere. I have used many outboard devices' & you get just what you pay for... I have always kept & use the EBS Microbass II... superb functionality & the Tech 21 Q Strip has very high quality EQ & HPF & LPF filters also.... Its really down to your ears & taste.. Thanks @paulo m... the MB2 is a superb unit... I just found - at that stage of my playing - it was colouring my sound in a way that I no longer liked. I think I need to go to the Gallery or the bass Direct and sit down for an afternoon's noodling with whatever is in the cupboard... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulo m Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 (edited) May I suggest that you should take your bank account with you 😉 for their is an a inexhaustible ammount of choice in those two establishments & what sounds good in the shop.... May not be what you require in the long run. Ultimately the sound is in your hands... & not the equipment' even tho it is always advantageous to have high end stuff..... In my experience of playing the biggest tone difference is achieved with "New Strings" its as simple as that.... Enjoy. Edited June 24, 2022 by paulo m Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassmoon Posted June 24, 2022 Author Share Posted June 24, 2022 1 hour ago, paulo m said: May I suggest that you should take your bank account with you 😉 for their is an a inexhaustible ammount of choice in those two establishments & what sounds good in the shop.... May not be what you require in the long run. Ultimately the sound is in your hands... & not the equipment' even tho it is always advantageous to have high end stuff..... In my experience of playing the biggest tone difference is achieved with "New Strings" its as simple as that.... Enjoy. I think for me, the Cort serves as a great stepping stone to a really good bass (for my needs and wants). I've long gone beyond the "I must have all the basses, I must have all the toys" mindset and this one bass is a workhorse, a tool. My last bass (SUB Ray5) was modded with a Delano pickup and a Duncan MM pre, and it was massive. It was me, but cleaner and stringer [if that makes any sense]. My aim with this, once the pickups have arrived and I have been able to get them installed, is to A/B them with an existing recording and see just how much "better" the new tone is... and take it from there. the last time I was in the Gallery, I was looking for the "payment by cash, card or soul" signs hahahahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itu Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 I have written this many times before, but repetitio... Signal path of a bass: pickups - blend - vol - tone stack - output Usually blend and vol are basic hi-Z (high impedance) pots. They affect frequency response by limiting it. In other words, they act like tone pots, but not as much as passive tone. Audere, EMG, John East, and Noll produce few preamps with active mixing and vol. That prevents frequency response limitations. Tone stack is about personal preference. It can be a passive pot+cap or a multiband parametric eq. Outboard eq has one advantage: lots of power. While the bass has (usually) one or two batteries, an outboard unit has mains. Therefore the solutions can consume far more energy. On the other hand a two pickup system should have a complicated cabling if you wanted to use bass' own adjustments and outboard unit's power together. Modern preamps are already relatively low power, and high performance. If you want to invest a bit more to something that can be transferred to another bass, try John East. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassmoon Posted June 24, 2022 Author Share Posted June 24, 2022 28 minutes ago, itu said: I have written this many times before, but repetitio... Signal path of a bass: pickups - blend - vol - tone stack - output Usually blend and vol are basic hi-Z (high impedance) pots. They affect frequency response by limiting it. In other words, they act like tone pots, but not as much as passive tone. Audere, EMG, John East, and Noll produce few preamps with active mixing and vol. That prevents frequency response limitations. Tone stack is about personal preference. It can be a passive pot+cap or a multiband parametric eq. Outboard eq has one advantage: lots of power. While the bass has (usually) one or two batteries, an outboard unit has mains. Therefore the solutions can consume far more energy. On the other hand a two pickup system should have a complicated cabling if you wanted to use bass' own adjustments and outboard unit's power together. Modern preamps are already relatively low power, and high performance. If you want to invest a bit more to something that can be transferred to another bass, try John East. perhaps I should just save up some more... the East is definitely the top of my list, but at some £50 more than the rest (Delano, Glock), it seems a wee bit much. But from what you have said about the tone... that is definitely something worth considering. I'm actually considering (thanks to Damian Erskine) 2 volumes... I shall see... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itu Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 2 hours ago, glassmoon said: the East is definitely the top of my list, but at some £50 more than the rest (Delano, Glock), it seems a wee bit much. I'm actually considering (thanks to Damian Erskine) 2 volumes... I shall see... The difference is certainly worth that extra. Delano, Glockenklang, Sadowsky et al. are simple active tone stacks with passive vol and blend. Vol - vol is as bad for your tone as is the blend - vol, but it may suit your habits of tweaking the sound. Electrically they are alike. Noll has Mixpot that is active mixer (blend). I had it in my Modulus Quantum before the bartolini TBT (and vol pot), and it was really an upgrade to the sound. Naturally your taste may vary. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boodang Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 A couple of things to consider with onboard preamps; passive pup blend allows for pickup interaction which creates peaks and troughs in the frequency response whereas an active blend is like a mixing desk and buffers each pup so no interaction (in the same way as active pickups are buffered). One is not better than the other, just different and worth considering... a passive blend jazz bass will sound different to an active buffered blend. Something to consider, John East preamps have a switch to allow passive or active blending, so maybe worth the extra. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boodang Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 As for outboard preamps.... where to start! I think I change my mind every year on which I like but my current favourite is the EBS Valve Drive... for now! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassmoon Posted June 26, 2022 Author Share Posted June 26, 2022 The East looks to be the best choice insofar as tone, transparency and flexibility goes - especially with the 4 band option. But I must admit that all the options being spoken about here are quite foreign to me. I get befuddled with complexity, if I'm honest, but I still want that dynamic flexibility. Pedalboard option is starting to wane though.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 Everyone should have a really good pre-amp in the input section of their amplifier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassmoon Posted June 26, 2022 Author Share Posted June 26, 2022 46 minutes ago, BigRedX said: Everyone should have a really good pre-amp in the input section of their amplifier. I use my head just to amplify my signal. I'm pretty much flat, with perhaps a bump or cut depending on the room... That way, no matter what I'm using as an amp, it's my sound.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boodang Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 8 minutes ago, glassmoon said: I use my head just to amplify my signal. I'm pretty much flat, with perhaps a bump or cut depending on the room... That way, no matter what I'm using as an amp, it's my sound.... When you plug your bass into your head, is it painful?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boodang Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 10 minutes ago, glassmoon said: I'm pretty much flat, with perhaps a bump or cut depending on the room... That sounds like a dangerous room! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassmoon Posted June 26, 2022 Author Share Posted June 26, 2022 8 minutes ago, Boodang said: When you plug your bass into your head, is it painful?! Thankfully not. I used to be a drummer, so there's very little by way a brain to worry about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassmoon Posted June 26, 2022 Author Share Posted June 26, 2022 6 minutes ago, Boodang said: That sounds like a dangerous room! You should see the garden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boodang Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 1 hour ago, BigRedX said: Everyone should have a really good pre-amp in the input section of their amplifier. All my tone sculpting is outboard these days (mostly born from having a pedal obsession) but it does mean I've got my sound straight off the pedal board and it's not reliant on amps or or the preamp in one. In fact my amp is an active PA speaker which is fairly neutral. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boodang Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 PS It's obvious personal preference but the piece of outboard equipment that has the biggest affect on my tone and I wouldn't be without is a decent compressor. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boodang Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 On 24/06/2022 at 15:12, itu said: I have written this many times before, but repetitio... Signal path of a bass: pickups - blend - vol - tone stack - output Not necessarily! My jazz pickups are wired in series, straight to output jack, no volume, no tone (the volume and tone controls were always left on full so I thought, why bother with them). My P bass pup goes straight to the output jack for the same reason. All tone sculpting done with outboard so don't need a preamp on the bass. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassmoon Posted June 26, 2022 Author Share Posted June 26, 2022 49 minutes ago, Boodang said: Not necessarily! My jazz pickups are wired in series, straight to output jack, no volume, no tone (the volume and tone controls were always left on full so I thought, why bother with them). My P bass pup goes straight to the output jack for the same reason. All tone sculpting done with outboard so don't need a preamp on the bass. I did something similar to that many years ago, where I had 2 volumes and a master tone, with switches to run both pickups straight to the jack (for slapping) and to run just the bridge pickup straight to jack (my reason for that is lost in the sands of time sadly). I was, however, using active Seymour Duncan pickups, which still enabled me to benefit somewhat from the active "vibe". The consideration of the simplicity of the onboard while using a pedalboard pre vs the complexity (or flexibility, depending on your point of view) of an onboard pre and no pedalboard pre..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itu Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 58 minutes ago, Boodang said: Not necessarily! My jazz pickups are wired in series, straight to output jack, no volume, no tone... True, but your basses have only a single pickup. Do the mixing with an outboard unit, and you sure have quite a lot of wires going both directions. Practical? Flexible? One pickup systems are naturally far easier to handle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boodang Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 46 minutes ago, itu said: True, but your basses have only a single pickup. Do the mixing with an outboard unit, and you sure have quite a lot of wires going both directions. Practical? Flexible? One pickup systems are naturally far easier to handle. The jazz bass does have two pickups but I guess technically, as they're wired in series they're one humbucker. I used to use active EMGs but as they've got a much wider frequency response I spent most of my time eq'ing them to sound like passive pups. Now I get custom passive pickups made to match the response I'm after so they're as close to the sound I want with little to no eq needed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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