Basszilla Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 (edited) On 18/06/2022 at 16:10, Bill Fitzmaurice said: Sorry Bill quoted you somehow by mistake My matamp has a di out on the back, but yeah as someone said the neve Di is a good shout as well Edited June 19, 2022 by Basszilla 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunion Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 3 hours ago, BigRedX said: First off what output sockets are there on the back of the amp? Maybe post a photograph. On 18/06/2022 at 12:27, Clarky said: Not that I have a valve amp but am just pondering ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassmanPaul Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 Not too many full tube amps came with a DI. What would the use be of bypassing all the tasty goodness of the output stage and it's interaction with the speaker cabinet? A microphone captures all that and more. The cost of such a microphone would be less than all these cabinet simulation pedals. You might as well plug the bass right into the PA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunderwonder Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 10 hours ago, Jack said: Yes but in that application they do come across as being very bright. Most (stereotype alert) people using big valve amps are using coloured cabs of the 8x10 or similar ilk, very unlikely to have tweeters etc. The amps are set up to 'combat' this so they sound good together, as a package. Taking a feed from just the amp can sound less than good in this case. Usually you'll want some sort of speaker sim, ir, or just drastic eq on the board to approximate the sound you get on stage from the cab. Most desks these days have shelving top and bottom. The yummy tone in the mids to upper mids can't be replicated without sophisticated plugins. Even then, if it was that easy nobody would making tube amps any more. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chienmortbb Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 (edited) As usual some very good tips on here and here is my two pennyworth. Most sound guys prefer a flat sound, then proceed to screw it up. As a clean DI I use the Orchid Classic, Can be used in front of you amp or from the send of the effects loop. I honest;y feel that a mic for bass is almost a waste of time, if you have more than one speaker driver, a compete waste of time. I went to see a very well known singer last night (name omitted due to the risk of ridicule). It was a very professional show that was almost spoiled by two things. The overly loud kick drum and a bass that was so processed and loud that I could not tell whether he was playing the right notes. The result was the vocals were wiped out at various crescendos and the bass (or more correctly rumble) just overpowered everything. The moral of this is, get a radio system and listen to the sound check and tell the sound guy if it sounds crap (I did and it split my last band). I know have a new band and am happy with the sound. Edited June 20, 2022 by Chienmortbb 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 On 19/06/2022 at 22:38, Downunderwonder said: Most desks these days have shelving top and bottom. The yummy tone in the mids to upper mids can't be replicated without sophisticated plugins. Even then, if it was that easy nobody would making tube amps any more. I can't tell if we agree or disagree... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 On 18/06/2022 at 20:30, Bunion said: About £80 from most stores I use this plugged into a speaker output of my guitar combo but never tried it on bass. Time to experiment… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 1 hour ago, JapanAxe said: I use this plugged into a speaker output of my guitar combo but never tried it on bass. Time to experiment… Tread with caution. If you read the manual, it must always be used with a speaker attached and is designed for 200W maximum output (not RMS) and the "speaker emulations" are all very guitar orientated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, BigRedX said: Tread with caution. If you read the manual, it must always be used with a speaker attached and is designed for 200W maximum output (not RMS) and the "speaker emulations" are all very guitar orientated. Yes I'm aware of that. I use the PDI09 with valve amps rated at no more than 30W and always with a speaker connected. I'm wondering if it will roll off too much low end to be useful for bass, but there's only one way to find out! Edited June 21, 2022 by JapanAxe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 39 minutes ago, BigRedX said: If you read the manual, it must always be used with a speaker attached and is designed for 200W maximum output (not RMS) and the "speaker emulations" are all very guitar orientated. I would imagine the 'always with speaker' are related to the previous points about it being used with a valve amplifier - obviously using a valve amplifier without a speaker is going to damage it, whereas it won't be an issue with a solid state amp at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, Woodinblack said: I would imagine the 'always with speaker' are related to the previous points about it being used with a valve amplifier - obviously using a valve amplifier without a speaker is going to damage it, whereas it won't be an issue with a solid state amp at all. Yes, but the only benefit of using a device like this is to capture the sound of the power amp valves working hard. Therefore it needs to be used in conjunction with a speaker cab or a suitable heavy duty dummy load. If the valves are in the pre-amp stage only you might as well use the line out socket and a standard DI box, because no-one wants to hear the sound of clipping power transistors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chienmortbb Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 20 hours ago, BigRedX said: Yes, but the only benefit of using a device like this is to capture the sound of the power amp valves working hard. Therefore it needs to be used in conjunction with a speaker cab or a suitable heavy duty dummy load. If the valves are in the pre-amp stage only you might as well use the line out socket and a standard DI box, because no-one wants to hear the sound of clipping power transistors. The problem is that a "dummy" load is usually mainly resistive and a speaker is both resistive and inductive/reactive. Not really worth the effort and probably inferior to micing up the cabinet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 1 hour ago, Chienmortbb said: The problem is that a "dummy" load is usually mainly resistive and a speaker is both resistive and inductive/reactive. Not really worth the effort and probably inferior to micing up the cabinet. But live unless it's a rig with a single cabinet containing a single driver and no tweeter, you are not mic'ing up the cabinet, you're just mic'ing up a single speaker which looses just as much of the nuances of the sound as using a load that is just resistive rather than both inductive and resistive (not that I'd want to use any of these devices with a bass amp running at gig levels). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chienmortbb Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 17 minutes ago, BigRedX said: But live unless it's a rig with a single cabinet containing a single driver and no tweeter, you are not mic'ing up the cabinet, you're just mic'ing up a single speaker which looses just as much of the nuances of the sound as using a load that is just resistive rather than both inductive and resistive (not that I'd want to use any of these devices with a bass amp running at gig levels). True and even with say a single 12" + tweeter you will miss something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunion Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 5 hours ago, BigRedX said: But live unless it's a rig with a single cabinet containing a single driver and no tweeter, you are not mic'ing up the cabinet, you're just mic'ing up a single speaker which looses just as much of the nuances of the sound as using a load that is just resistive rather than both inductive and resistive (not that I'd want to use any of these devices with a bass amp running at gig levels). Unless it’s like a Bag end coaxial cab with the tweeter built into the cone my S15X-D has this I stack it with an S15-D but my 2x10 and 4x10 have one in too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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