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Gibson - an enigma (1974 EB-3 content)


Andyjr1515

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8 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

Will it be possible to measure the inductance value of the choke before re-fitting it? IIRC there is no value marked on the Gibson circuit diagram, just a part number.

I can certainly measure the resistance...but, hmmm, the inductance?  Not sure a standard multimeter can do that...   

 

Open to suggestions how - I will be disconnecting the choke  :)

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Oh - and we may well be going for a Babicz FCH-3 replacement bridge @thodrik :)  with Chris keeping the original (and my lump of ebony) in a safe place in the unlikely event he will be ever selling it.

 

Electrics-wise, other than the loose and disconnected choke and some tweaks done in years gone by that I will undo, a decent squirt of contact cleaner has sorted all the crackles coming from the rotary and the tone pots.  Neck volume pot fine and just the bridge volume that is on or off and needs replacing.  Not bad for 50 years, many of which were heavy gigging! 

 

Truss rod seems to work OK and relief is adjustable to the correct level, but the frets definitely have some high spots that need sorting out.

 

Pretty good.  The main problems seem to be the ones that were there when brand new xD

Edited by Andyjr1515
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1 hour ago, Andyjr1515 said:

Oh - and we may well be going for a Babicz FCH-3 replacement bridge @thodrik :)  with Chris keeping the original (and my lump of ebony) in a safe place in the unlikely event he will be ever selling it.

 

Electrics-wise, other than the loose and disconnected choke and some tweaks done in years gone by that I will undo, a decent squirt of contact cleaner has sorted all the crackles coming from the rotary and the tone pots.  Neck volume pot fine and just the bridge volume that is on or off and needs replacing.  Not bad for 50 years, many of which were heavy gigging! 

 

Truss rod seems to work OK and relief is adjustable to the correct level, but the frets definitely have some high spots that need sorting out.

 

Pretty good.  The main problems seem to be the ones that were there when brand new xD

My bridge pick up volume also works as an on/off switch, as do the tone controls. I think that they might be just part of the design of the circuits!

The Babicz bridge is a great investment for a playability standpoint and is so easy to install even I managed it. It does 'look' modern, but mine is hidden under pickup cover so isn't visible. However, the playability and intonation improvements outweigh vintage 'chic' in my view. 

My original bridge is sitting in Tech 21 Sansamp box!

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1 hour ago, thodrik said:

My bridge pick up volume also works as an on/off switch, as do the tone controls. I think that they might be just part of the design of the circuits!

The Babicz bridge is a great investment for a playability standpoint and is so easy to install even I managed it. It does 'look' modern, but mine is hidden under pickup cover so isn't visible. However, the playability and intonation improvements outweigh vintage 'chic' in my view. 

My original bridge is sitting in Tech 21 Sansamp box!

I know what you mean ref the on/off...the V/V/T/T circuits often do cut off the whole signal when one of the vols is put to zero, even on a 'both' setting.  But here there is no change in volume on bridge pup only at all until it's 'off'  :)

 

Chris is more than happy - he's after playability rather than the vintage look as long as he can return it to original if he ever wants to sell it.  The Babicz will be perfect for him :)

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 14/06/2022 at 16:21, BigRedX said:

Will it be possible to measure the inductance value of the choke before re-fitting it? IIRC there is no value marked on the Gibson circuit diagram, just a part number.

Hi @BigRedX

 

Just measured it.  The circuit matches exactly the 1973 Series 2 circuit and the owner confirms that it is original wiring (looks like a plumber has done it...Gibson, don't you just love 'em  ;)  ).  Based on that, it is a part no. 70-442 and it is measuring 1.557H.  I de-soldered the coil to measure it to avoid any possibility of the rest of the circuit affecting it.

 

Andy

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Brilliant!

 

When I made my guitar in the late 70s I was "lucky" enough to have diagrams for several of the Gibson Varitone circuits complete with values rather than part numbers, courtesy of the book "Guitars: From the Renaissance to Rock" by Tom Evans. Unfortunately in at least one case the decimal point was in completely the wrong place, as I discovered when I tried to buy the part and was told it would be larger than a typical amplifier transformer!

Edited by BigRedX
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I can +1 the Babicz bridge (albeit on a Thunderbird(ish)) - I'm not bothered about hiding its modernity, and the flexibility of adjustment is more than worth it.

 

I've always like EBs, but that neck-adjacent mudbucker position has always put me off - that one with the pup nearer the bridge looks a lot more like my thing...

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19 minutes ago, Muzz said:

I can +1 the Babicz bridge (albeit on a Thunderbird(ish)) - I'm not bothered about hiding its modernity, and the flexibility of adjustment is more than worth it.

 

I've always like EBs, but that neck-adjacent mudbucker position has always put me off - that one with the pup nearer the bridge looks a lot more like my thing...

The one that @MichaelDean flagged in the classifieds has just arrived (thanks again @MichaelDean for flagging it and to @briansbrew for a slick and pleasant transaction :) ).  I've ordered some imperial threaded bolts but can try it out with the original bolts.  It looks great!  :)  

 

 

 

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Well, I love this bridge, @briansbrew  :)

 

Babicz sell the 5/16"-24 imperial sized screws separately but that was going to be either a ship-from-USA jobee or a 4-8 weeks one from UK (which probably involved the same process plus a margin ;) )  So I bought some 5/16-24 cap-head stainless screws from Accu that arrived in less than 24 hours :)

 

Looks good:

7lljRscl.jpg

 

MJq1TQWl.jpg

 

...and works brilliantly well.

 

So - frets have been levelled and recrowned, bridge replaced, tone choke replaced.   Still got to do the final tweak of action height and intonation but almost ready to go back.  I say almost, because the tone with the choke engaged (admittedly through a guitar amp) really doesn't sound much different to the mudbucker on its own.  Might be the amp I'm using but I'll double check that I've not done or missed something daft.  But, barring that, it will be back with its owner shortly  :)

 

 

 

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That looks great and I'm very jealous of your friend! I'd love an EB3 like that. I had an Epiphone one for years, but the long scale just made it not quite right (for me). I feel like short scale and the mudbucker is a much better combination.

 

I do like Babicz bridges too. I've got a 5 string one I bought on here just waiting for me to start a Musicman/Thunderbird build I've had planned for far too long.

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29 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said:

Well, I love this bridge, @briansbrew  :)

 

Babicz sell the 5/16"-24 imperial sized screws separately but that was going to be either a ship-from-USA jobee or a 4-8 weeks one from UK (which probably involved the same process plus a margin ;) )  So I bought some 5/16-24 cap-head stainless screws from Accu that arrived in less than 24 hours :)

 

Looks good:

7lljRscl.jpg

 

MJq1TQWl.jpg

 

...and works brilliantly well.

 

So - frets have been levelled and recrowned, bridge replaced, tone choke replaced.   Still got to do the final tweak of action height and intonation but almost ready to go back.  I say almost, because the tone with the choke engaged (admittedly through a guitar amp) really doesn't sound much different to the mudbucker on its own.  Might be the amp I'm using but I'll double check that I've not done or missed something daft.  But, barring that, it will be back with its owner shortly  :)

 

 

 

That looks the business Andy, I actually used button head stainless bolts which also look cool if you ever decided to change...

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37 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said:

Well, I love this bridge, @briansbrew  :)

 

Babicz sell the 5/16"-24 imperial sized screws separately but that was going to be either a ship-from-USA jobee or a 4-8 weeks one from UK (which probably involved the same process plus a margin ;) )  So I bought some 5/16-24 cap-head stainless screws from Accu that arrived in less than 24 hours :)

 

Looks good:

7lljRscl.jpg

 

MJq1TQWl.jpg

 

...and works brilliantly well.

 

So - frets have been levelled and recrowned, bridge replaced, tone choke replaced.   Still got to do the final tweak of action height and intonation but almost ready to go back.  I say almost, because the tone with the choke engaged (admittedly through a guitar amp) really doesn't sound much different to the mudbucker on its own.  Might be the amp I'm using but I'll double check that I've not done or missed something daft.  But, barring that, it will be back with its owner shortly  :)

 

 

 

Nah, there is nothing wrong. There is barely any difference between the choke engaged or mudbucker on its own on my bass either. I think that is just a quirk/limitation of the design. 

New bridge looks great!

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1 hour ago, thodrik said:

Nah, there is nothing wrong. There is barely any difference between the choke engaged or mudbucker on its own on my bass either.

I did find a quirk (I wonder if it had always been wired wrong...)  Once I'd worked out which set of 4 contacts belonged to which of the three outputs, I realised that the choke was connected to...nothing.  The contact next to it (no trace of solder on it so it had never been connected there) put the coil into the mudbucker circuit which the wiring diagram confirms it should do.  I moved the choke wire round one and hey presto it works!  That said, there's not a lot of difference, but there is now at least a tangible tone change to the other three positions.  :)

 

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I take it you used the circuit diagrams on Fly Guitars to get the wiring right? 

 

When I added a varitone circuit to my guitar IIRC it worked as a bass cut control (my circuit was based on those in the Gibson 345 and LS6 guitars). Does it work in the same way on the EB3 to take a bit of "mud" out of the mudbucker?

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9 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

I take it you used the circuit diagrams on Fly Guitars to get the wiring right? 

 

When I added a varitone circuit to my guitar IIRC it worked as a bass cut control (my circuit was based on those in the Gibson 345 and LS6 guitars). Does it work in the same way on the EB3 to take a bit of "mud" out of the mudbucker?

Yes - exactly that.   Phew ;)

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The baritone? switch on the EB2 I owned in my youth gave quite a significant bass cut effect. The EB3 in this thread is (Imo) just about the prime period, the mid located pickup hopefully tightening up the 'mud'. A very desirable bass.

Edited by 3below
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On 14/06/2022 at 16:33, Andyjr1515 said:

I can certainly measure the resistance...but, hmmm, the inductance?  Not sure a standard multimeter can do that...   

 

Open to suggestions how - I will be disconnecting the choke  :)

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/384954327400

 

I have a more primitive version of this. Ah, found it - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/403709306880. Very handy device.

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