Should Wal scale up their operation?

[Woodinblack]

2 hours ago, funkypenguin said:

Would you be happy to pay the corresponding price increase that would come with scaling up production/employing more luthiers that can build at the same level as Paul?

 

There wouldn't be an increase as they have more costs but have more sales. If anything, there would be a reduction based on shared useage and higher discounts on materials.

[Misdee]

1 hour ago, joe_geezer said:

When you say 

Can you be more descriptive and break down exactly what aspects of a modern Wal attain your 'level' status, thanks.

 

Have you had the opportunity to play a modern Wal and & compare it to an original Wal? 

Well, the first thing I noticed was the new basses were lighter than any older Wal basses I've ever played. That is not a quality issue as such, but it is a thing. 

 

The quality of the woodworking was better on Paul's basses in so much as everything was neat and symmetrical, often not the case on the old Wals.

 

 Attention to detail and overall fit and finish was much better.  By that I mean things like that the nut on Paul's basses is cut so there the same amount of space from the edge of the outer strings to the edge of the fingerboard. On vintage Wals that metric is fairly hit and miss.

 

 However, the most significant difference for the chap who owns the basses in question ( fretted and fretless respectively) is that Paul has guaranteed  him that on the new basses the truss rod is anchored more securely inside the channel. He previously owned three MK1 Wals made between 1985 and 1988 and two of them developed the same problem with the truss rod coming loose within the neck and rattling sympathetically with certain notes. This is a documented problem on a fair few older Wal basses and it can be very tricky to fix.

 

 

 

[joe_geezer]

5 minutes ago, Misdee said:

Well, the first thing I noticed was the new basses were lighter than any older Wal basses I've ever played. That is not a quality issue as such, but it is a thing. 

 

The quality of the woodworking was better on Paul's basses in so much as everything was neat and symmetrical, often not the case on the old Wals.

 

 Attention to detail and overall fit and finish was much better.  By that I mean things like that the nut on Paul's basses is cut so there the same amount of space from the edge of the outer strings to the edge of the fingerboard. On vintage Wals that metric is fairly hit and miss.

 

 However, the most significant difference for the chap who owns the basses in question ( fretted and fretless respectively) is that Paul has guaranteed  him that on the new basses the truss rod is anchored more securely inside the channel. He previously owned three MK1 Wals made between 1985 and 1988 and two of them developed the same problem with the truss rod coming loose within the neck and rattling sympathetically with certain notes. This is a documented problem on a fair few older Wal basses and it can be very tricky to fix.

 

 

 

Thats great thanks, i would probably pay an extra grand to have the weight reduced, i hate heavy basses..

[4000]

On 09/06/2022 at 14:51, joe_geezer said:

Thats great thanks, i would probably pay an extra grand to have the weight reduced, i hate heavy basses..

That’s interesting as both the Jaydees I owned, and the majority of the many Jaydees I’ve played, were very heavy; 12lbs or so. 
 

I take it yours is much lighter?

[NickA]

On 09/06/2022 at 14:51, joe_geezer said:

Thats great thanks, i would probably pay an extra grand to have the weight reduced, i hate heavy basses..

 

They're still heavy basses!  Just not quite as heavy as one from the 1980s.  Personally I like the heft of a good hardwood bass with solid hardware on it.  Don't own anything under 10lbs.

 

As to the orginal question .... NO NO NO NEVER NO AND NOT AT ALL.  Electric Wood are are making a decent living making a good product at a low rate of supply.  If they're happy with that, why should they change a thing.

 

[4000]

7 hours ago, NickA said:

 

They're still heavy basses!  Just not quite as heavy as one from the 1980s.  Personally I like the heft of a good hardwood bass with solid hardware on it.  Don't own anything under 10lbs.

 

As to the orginal question .... NO NO NO NEVER NO AND NOT AT ALL.  Electric Wood are are making a decent living making a good product at a low rate of supply.  If they're happy with that, why should they change a thing.

 

The ‘80s Wal Custom I owned wasn’t that heavy. I’m pretty sure it was comfortably under 10bs, which is pretty unusual for an ‘80s Wal. It was much lighter than the Jaydees I owned and I’d say a bit lighter than my Dolphins, which were also noticeably lighter than my Jaydees. The Pro IIE I owned was quite a bit heavier than my Custom. 
 

FWIW I too hate heavy basses. Prolapsed discs will do that.😉 Although TBH I tend to prefer the sound of lighter basses anyway. 

[Misdee]

I think the MK3 Wal is potentially a bit lighter than the  MK1/ MK2 designs.

 

I had a custom Jaydee back in the day, but I was much younger and weight wasn't an issue in those days. Back in the 1980s if I had gone a shop and tried to discuss the relative weight of  a bass they would have considered me a bit weird.  I know that Jaydee can substitute the mahogany body wings for lighter ash if weight is an issue for the customer.

 

Generally speaking, the obsession with weight is a more recent phenomenon. I don't like heavy basses either, but some basses are inherently heavy, and vintage Wals are definitely one of them. I don't entertain any bass over 9 1/2 pounds and all the older Wals I've got to play were probably a bit more than that.  Just like with a Series 1 and Series 2 Alembic, the weight is a compromise you have to make if you want to play one.

 

 Is it just me or is "vintage Wal" a bit of an uncomfortable phrase in so much as it's a bass that embodied an era of modernity in all things bass? Probably just me getting old.☹️

Edited June 12, 2022 by Misdee

[joe_geezer]

On 11/06/2022 at 17:30, 4000 said:

That’s interesting as both the Jaydees I owned, and the majority of the many Jaydees I’ve played, were very heavy; 12lbs or so. 
 

I take it yours is much lighter?

Yea, i asked John to make it with light woods & it's a really nice weight. 

[Downunderwonder]

It would be good business if they could knock out the bigger part of the current waitlist without sacrificing quality. They could then carry on taking on even more orders in good faith and still commanding the big dollars.

 

Easier said than done. Why risk it?

[NickA]

On 12/06/2022 at 17:30, 4000 said:

a bit lighter than my Dolphins,

Both my wals and my dolphin are much the same weight - I expected the 5string mk2 to be much heavier but I guess the body is a bit smaller and the tuners lighter. all 10.2 lbs I think.

 

9 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

still commanding the big dollars.

though its not all about the money (whatever the song says).. it is actaully possible to do a job you enjoy, getting satisfaction out of producing something as well as you can and living comfortably enough to be happy.  Meanhwile lots of miserable rich people doing jobs they hate.  I don't get the impression that the owner/operators of electric wood have ever been super rich or wanted to be.  Hence the cow shed in Cobham and the relatively relaxed production rates.  Leave the poor guys be!

[4000]

21 hours ago, joe_geezer said:

Yea, i asked John to make it with light woods & it's a really nice weight. 

I’d be interested to know how much it weighs as I’d still like another before I pop my clogs, if the weight was right. Did you just get lighter pieces of mahogany or is it different woods, e.g. swamp ash? 

[Grahambythesea]

Never liked Wals, couldn’t care if they take a century to make.

[joe_geezer]

2 hours ago, Grahambythesea said:

Never liked Wals, couldn’t care if they take a century to make.

I love this comment!  

[joe_geezer]

4 hours ago, NickA said:

Both my wals and my dolphin are much the same weight - I expected the 5string mk2 to be much heavier but I guess the body is a bit smaller and the tuners lighter. all 10.2 lbs I think.

 

though its not all about the money (whatever the song says).. it is actaully possible to do a job you enjoy, getting satisfaction out of producing something as well as you can and living comfortably enough to be happy.  Meanhwile lots of miserable rich people doing jobs they hate.  I don't get the impression that the owner/operators of electric wood have ever been super rich or wanted to be.  Hence the cow shed in Cobham and the relatively relaxed production rates.  Leave the poor guys be!

I disagree and thats why i won't be buying a Wal, you go ahead though and enjoy your £7000 bass and 6+ year wait

Edited June 13, 2022 by joe_geezer
typos

[joe_geezer]

4 hours ago, 4000 said:

I’d be interested to know how much it weighs as I’d still like another before I pop my clogs, if the weight was right. Did you just get lighter pieces of mahogany or is it different woods, e.g. swamp ash? 

He uses the regular woods but not maple, I think it's oak that he used instead but don't quote me on that

[4000]

23 hours ago, joe_geezer said:

He uses the regular woods but not maple, I think it's oak that he used instead but don't quote me on that

I doubt it’s oak, oak is typically extremely heavy! They usually use mahogany for the body wings. 

[joe_geezer]

1 hour ago, 4000 said:

I doubt it’s oak, oak is typically extremely heavy! They usually use mahogany for the body wings. 

Yea sorry I have no idea, the middle thru section is made up of 3 different woods , so one could be mahogany? but I' m not sure about the other 2... please see pic attached..

Edited June 15, 2022 by joe_geezer

[Misdee]

That Jaydee looks like it has got walnut for the lions share of the neck lamination. The rest looks like mahogany with an ebony centre strip. Not too shabby!

 

The walnut neck is how they did it on the earlier Jaydee basses. If I understand correctly, later on John kind of reversed the lamination so it was predominantly maple with walnut stringers rather than walnut with maple stringers, with the aim of making the neck a bit stiffer. However, after he adopted a new truss rod system sometime in the 1990s he was able to offer the predominantly walnut neck again.

 

I always have to remind myself that Jaydee basses are not neck thru body. The neck is actually glued to a matching laminate in the body just to give the appearance of a neck thru. I suppose that makes it a set neck design.

[FDC484950]

1 hour ago, Misdee said:

I always have to remind myself that Jaydee basses are not neck thru body. The neck is actually glued to a matching laminate in the body just to give the appearance of a neck thru. I suppose that makes it a set neck design.

I didn’t know that. Kind of like Ibanez Soundgear, although those are bolt-on at the front (which makes even less design sense IMHO). To me the only reason to show a central block of wood like the Jaydee is precisely because it is a through neck.

[BigRedX]

Personally I don't like the look of stripy necks. They were vaguely interesting in the mid 70s when they were new, but now they are old hat and besides I'm not interested in having the construction of an instrument take over from aesthetics. Either hide them under a solid finish or of you want to see wood grain, disguise them so it's not obvious - make the laminations out wood that is the same colour, and then hide the through body parts under front and rear facings and have the core body wood wrap around the base of the instrument so it doesn't show at the end.

[joe_geezer]

2 hours ago, Misdee said:

That Jaydee looks like it has got walnut for the lions share of the neck lamination. The rest looks like mahogany with an ebony centre strip. Not too shabby!

 

The walnut neck is how they did it on the earlier Jaydee basses. If I understand correctly, later on John kind of reversed the lamination so it was predominantly maple with walnut stringers rather than walnut with maple stringers, with the aim of making the neck a bit stiffer. However, after he adopted a new truss rod system sometime in the 1990s he was able to offer the predominantly walnut neck again.

 

I always have to remind myself that Jaydee basses are not neck thru body. The neck is actually glued to a matching laminate in the body just to give the appearance of a neck thru. I suppose that makes it a set neck design.

I never liked thru necks, no punch. Set necks and bolt ons are the way to go imo. I think that's why Mark King always gravitated to Jaydees for that punchy finger style and slap honk

Edited June 15, 2022 by joe_geezer

[joe_geezer]

13 minutes ago, FDC484950 said:

I didn’t know that. Kind of like Ibanez Soundgear, although those are bolt-on at the front (which makes even less design sense IMHO). To me the only reason to show a central block of wood like the Jaydee is precisely because it is a through neck.

Design purely for aesthetics has always been integral to guitar manufactoring, just look at the flying V shape. I think it's a really cool idea to have different woods for the body wings and center, you can build a tonal palette just by combining different woods. And the set neck is what gives Jaydee's their distinctive percussive pronounced mid sound.

 

When Jaco tried out a Jaydee, he loved that mid punch and got John to build him 5 basses, unfortunately  he left us before they were completed but if a Jaydee is good enough for Jaco then its good enough for me  

 

[Rich]

On 07/06/2022 at 22:14, joe_geezer said:

Should Wal scale up their operation, employ a few more makers / apprentices to meet the demand at a more affordable price?

 

Are the current owners of the Wal brand starving the market of an iconic English bass guitar manufacturer? Do you think if Wal scaled up their operation it could potentially reduce the quality of their instruments?

 

OR are you happy that only a few Wals are made a year and then that keeps Wal prices high? Making a Wal bass a great investment.

 

Would you rather the Wal owners sell up to a team that could reduce the 4+ year wait times to order a bass?

 

Would you/we ask the same questions of Fodera? Or Alembic? Or any other high-value/low-volume bass maker?

I've got a Wal**, an old Pro that I was lucky enough to pick up back when they were as cheap as chips. Obviously from a purely fiscal point of view I'm very happy that its value has gone through the roof, but on the other hand it's a real shame that -- barring a pools win or a substantial dip into my pension lump sum -- I will never own the Mk3 5-string I'd so desperately love. However, it is what it is. I think it's entirely up to Paul and the Wal crew how they want to run their ship. If their current business model is sustainable and comfortable, then they have every right to keep it that way. 

 

** and guess what, I'm neither a doctor nor a lawyer and can string at least 3 notes together. Ain't stereotypes great?  

 

Edited June 15, 2022 by Rich

[joe_geezer]

1 hour ago, Rich said:

Would you/we ask the same questions of Fodera? Or Alembic? Or any other high-value/low-volume bass maker?

I've got a Wal**, an old Pro that I was lucky enough to pick up back when they were as cheap as chips. Obviously from a purely fiscal point of view I'm very happy that its value has gone through the roof, but on the other hand it's a real shame that -- barring a pools win or a substantial dip into my pension lump sum -- I will never own the Mk3 5-string I'd so desperately love. However, it is what it is. I think it's entirely up to Paul and the Wal crew how they want to run their ship. If their current business model is sustainable and comfortable, then they have every right to keep it that way. 

 

** and guess what, I'm neither a doctor nor a lawyer and can string at least 3 notes together. Ain't stereotypes great?  

 

Haha, im sure you're a great bass player!

 

Would you/we ask the same questions of Fodera? Or Alembic?

 

No, because these basses were always luxary high priced items, Wal were not, Wals were the same price as a Status or Jaydee give or take a couple of 100.

 

Okay, so we have established that the current Wal owner is perfectly entitled to make basses with crazy wait times and prices to match. In fact, if he wants to, he can double to prices and wait times and nearly everyone is going to be 100% behind him, pat him on the back and celebrate his success. Fantastic, hopefully we agree on that.

 

So, let me put it another way then, would you have preferred that another person or team had acquired the Wal brand & been able to produce as good as Status / Jaydee quality (which imo is as good as if not better than current Wal) and prices and sane waiting times...? 

Edited June 15, 2022 by joe_geezer
quotes

[joe_geezer]

Anyone looking for an alternative Wal might want to checkout these from https://hotwire-bass.de/

 

Also there was a beautiful new Zoot made Wal bass posted in this forum recently.

 

The prices are around £4300 so not cheap , https://hotwire-bass.de/auf-lager/2020/4/13/inlaw-424 but these are pretty maxed out with some stunning woods.

 

Edited June 15, 2022 by joe_geezer