And for your US$18,450 today ...

[Happy Jack]

 

[Happy Jack]

"The Fodera Mini MB Presentation is open to orders with a total price of $18,450."

 

Of course you then need to add shipping, Import Duty, and VAT on everything.

 

[Maude]

Just think what it would cost if they'd employed a real designer! 

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

I usually like quirky basses, especially short scales; but I don't like anything about this fugly monstrosity

[FDC484950]

I quite like the shape of the AJ sig. This is hideous in every way. Plus the BS on the video is hilarious, for example “the angled headstock gives it a little more tightness in the low end”. No it flipping doesn’t! 

[Machines]

I've seen a few basses recently that have headless hardware, but still have al almost full sized headstock. I don't get it.

 

[LukeFRC]

aw bless - I guess at least that guy in the video is happy. 

[Doctor J]

And the Oscar for best editing goes to...

 

...not whoever hacked this mess together.

[Joe Nation]

He completely lost me at "I worked for Apple, I worked for Tesla, I drive a Tesla...". Hard pass.

[lownote]

Is it me or do his opening notes in the vid sound like Rolf Harris' wobble board?

Edited May 4, 2022 by lownote

[Belka]

I fully believe that the right Fodera is worth the money, but this one is meh for me. IMO, short scales work well with flatrounds for a deep, funky kind of sound, but for roundwounds and a decent amount of definition/crispness to the note, I'd prefer medium scale at least. 

Still, you can't deny he's a monster player, and if that shorter scale allows him to do things he can't get away with on a longer scale, then fair enough.  

[Daz39]

Yeah - not a fan of the half a head but it is a beautiful thing, and he makes it sound great too. *looks down back of sofa for hundred dollar bills*

[Kev]

Just madness.  And people will buy it, gleefully.

 

I don't get the travel bass trend, but I get there is a market and loads of builders are doing them now.  Saw one for $3,000 odd the other day and thought who on earth would pay that kind of price.  Little did I know.

 

It's hard to watch some luthiers struggle to make a name for themselves, build for little profit if any to get their names out there, and there's companies like this basically printing their own money, because they have a NY workshop.

 

[fretmeister]

I bet they could cut the price in half and keep the same profit margins if they weren't paying New York rent.

 

I've played a couple of them and although they were excellent they weren't any better built than a Marleaux for a quarter of the price (or lower).

 

[Belka]

2 hours ago, Kev said:

Just madness.  And people will buy it, gleefully.

 

I don't get the travel bass trend, but I get there is a market and loads of builders are doing them now.  Saw one for $3,000 odd the other day and thought who on earth would pay that kind of price.  Little did I know.

 

It's hard to watch some luthiers struggle to make a name for themselves, build for little profit if any to get their names out there, and there's companies like this basically printing their own money, because they have a NY workshop.

 

They're not exactly printing money. For most of their existence they barely broke even. They're making a profit now, but no-one at Fodera is getting rich. Yes, they're very expensive, but they're a lot cheaper than Alembic, who for some reason never seem to get called out on their prices on this site. The same goes for the likes of Sadowsky and the Fender Custom Shop, which are considerably easier to build than Foderas. Maybe it's the unconventional designs/topwood or the fact that Foderas tend to be played by people who elicit a reaction of 'that kind of technique leaves me cold/too many notes/why can't they just groove?' around these parts that rubs people up the wrong way. That, and the fact that they're in the 'tonewoods do matter camp'.

Edited May 4, 2022 by Belka

[Kev]

19 minutes ago, Belka said:

They're not exactly printing money. For most of their existence they barely broke even. They're making a profit now, but no-one at Fodera is getting rich. Yes, they're very expensive, but they're a lot cheaper than Alembic, who for some reason never seem to get called out on their prices on this site. The same goes for the likes of Sadowsky and the Fender Custom Shop, which are considerably easier to build than Foderas. Maybe it's the unconventional designs/topwood or the fact that Foderas tend to be played by people who elicit a reaction of 'that kind of technique leaves me cold/too many notes/why can't they just groove?' around these parts that rubs people up the wrong way. That, and the fact that they're in the 'tonewoods do matter camp'.

By all means link me to an $18k Fender/Alembic/Sadowsky mini bass? Or even a $9k one??

 

If it truly costs so much in NY that they only break even on 5 figure basses, their business model is completely insane.  But I just don't believe that.

[BigRedX]

2 hours ago, fretmeister said:

I bet they could cut the price in half and keep the same profit margins if they weren't paying New York rent.

 

I've played a couple of them and although they were excellent they weren't any better built than a Marleaux for a quarter of the price (or lower).

 

 

They play up the NY bit as though they were in Manhattan. But they're not.

 

They're in Brooklyn, and not even in the trendy (expensive) part.

[Belka]

1 hour ago, Kev said:

By all means link me to an $18k Fender/Alembic/Sadowsky mini bass? Or even a $9k one??

 

If it truly costs so much in NY that they only break even on 5 figure basses, their business model is completely insane.  But I just don't believe that.

Apologies, I wasn't clear when talking about Sadowsky or Fender custom shop. I meant that you don't seem to see the same level of outrage at the pricing of Sadowsky and Fender Custom shop  compared to regular J and P clones that you get when comparing Fodera and other boutique basses. 

As for Alembic, knock yourself out:

 

https://reverb.com/marketplace?product_type=bass-guitars&make=alembic&item_region=XX&sort=price|desc

 

Why do you say their business model is based on 5 figure basses? The majority of their sales are the standard line, which are made in New York and cost about the same as an American/German Sadowsky, with extremely similar spec. I have no problem if you think they're too expensive, too ugly, or underwhelming, but I don't feel it's fair to slate them for charging too much when you don't actually know anything about their business model.  

 

 

[Belka]

47 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

 

They play up the NY bit as though they were in Manhattan. But they're not.

 

They're in Brooklyn, and not even in the trendy (expensive) part.

The second part of your statement may be true, but I've got no idea where the first bit came from. Their branding has Brooklyn all over it. 

[Kev]

24 minutes ago, Belka said:

Apologies, I wasn't clear when talking about Sadowsky or Fender custom shop. I meant that you don't seem to see the same level of outrage at the pricing of Sadowsky and Fender Custom shop  compared to regular J and P clones that you get when comparing Fodera and other boutique basses. 

As for Alembic, knock yourself out:

 

https://reverb.com/marketplace?product_type=bass-guitars&make=alembic&item_region=XX&sort=price|desc

 

Why do you say their business model is based on 5 figure basses? The majority of their sales are the standard line, which are made in New York and cost about the same as an American/German Sadowsky, with extremely similar spec. I have no problem if you think they're too expensive, too ugly, or underwhelming, but I don't feel it's fair to slate them for charging too much when you don't actually know anything about their business model.  

 

 

Sorry I couldn't find the mini bass there, they all seem full scale.  Can you link me??

 

And in fairness I am more referring to their signature/artist range like this one than their base level standard range, so it probably is unfair of me to base all on that, but a business model where they break even (this is what I know of their model, from your post) is still completely bonkers, and they should really move the shop if there is any shred of truth in that. I think their standard range prices still came in a few thousand dollars higher a piece than top end masterbuild basses from the other builders you mention.  Isnt it more like $20k for the full scale presentation model? Are they made during high rent months in NY or something?? 🙂

 

Edit: Just flashed up the 2022 price list, $35,200 for the Presentation II?!!

Edited May 4, 2022 by Kev

[funkypenguin]

5 hours ago, Kev said:

Just madness.  And people will buy it, gleefully.

 

I don't get the travel bass trend, but I get there is a market and loads of builders are doing them now.  Saw one for $3,000 odd the other day and thought who on earth would pay that kind of price.  Little did I know.

 

It's hard to watch some luthiers struggle to make a name for themselves, build for little profit if any to get their names out there, and there's companies like this basically printing their own money, because they have a NY workshop.

 

 

Fodera make a 10% profit margin on any instrument they make, which is hardly printing money Kev. They pay a decent living wage to their entire team, whereas I'm pretty sure that some of the smaller luthiers such as Shuker and Alpher (once they factor in how long each instrument takes in man hours) aren't even working for minimum wage.

 

If you want a better breakdown of their business model, the link below is a breakdown that one of the partners (Jason) did of what goes where in terms of finances. It's not all to do with them being in NYC (although it's certainly part of it).

 

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/so-many-people-are-selling-their-foderas.881417/page-3#post-12628306

 

And since someone mentioned Alembic, a 4 string series II STARTS at $35250....

http://www.alembic.com/prod/prices.html

[Kev]

3 minutes ago, funkypenguin said:

 

Fodera make a 10% profit margin on any instrument they make, which is hardly printing money Kev. They pay a decent living wage to their entire team, whereas I'm pretty sure that some of the smaller luthiers such as Shuker and Alpher (once they factor in how long each instrument takes in man hours) aren't even working for minimum wage.

 

If you want a better breakdown of their business model, the link below is a breakdown that one of the partners (Jason) did of what goes where in terms of finances. It's not all to do with them being in NYC (although it's certainly part of it).

 

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/so-many-people-are-selling-their-foderas.881417/page-3#post-12628306

 

And since someone mentioned Alembic, a 4 string series II STARTS at $35250....

http://www.alembic.com/prod/prices.html

I mean I'm not trying to argue or just attack Fodera, as they're not alone as you say!  But 10% profit margin, am I right in saying that it therefore as a starting price costs them ~$32k to make one of those Presentation II models?  If so, how??

[LukeFRC]

I can buy a car for £3000 or I can buy a car for £3M 
I can buy a watch for £12 or I can buy a watch for £100,000 
I can buy a laptop for £500 or I can buy one for £5000

I can buy a bass for £60 or £6000 

beyond a certain point you don't really pay for much improvement on the fundamentals of what it is...  this is my big shrug

[Belka]

34 minutes ago, Kev said:

Sorry I couldn't find the mini bass there, they all seem full scale.  Can you link me??

 

And in fairness I am more referring to their signature/artist range like this one than their base level standard range, so it probably is unfair of me to base all on that, but a business model where they break even (this is what I know of their model, from your post) is still completely bonkers, and they should really move the shop if there is any shred of truth in that. I think their standard range prices still came in a few thousand dollars higher a piece than top end masterbuild basses from the other builders you mention.  Isnt it more like $20k for the full scale presentation model? Are they made during high rent months in NY or something?? 🙂

 

Edit: Just flashed up the 2022 price list, $35,200 for the Presentation II?!!

Sorry, i didn't know that you were talking about short scales. I regular long scale custom will be cheaper than $18,000, more like around $12,000. The scale length and the fact it's a mini has very little to do with the price. Alembics also come in 30-36" scale lengths but I don't think that makes much difference to the price. I can only presume this one is so expensive due to the fact it takes longer to make. Fodera's pricing structure is to somehow work out cost per man hour and take it from there, although I'm not aware of the exact formula and obviously materials would play a role as well. The reason a Presentation II costs almost 6 times as much as a standard is mainly because it takes around 6 many hours to build, as well as having slightly more expensive materials. 

 

I didn't say they only break even now, I said they barely broke even for much of their existence. They've been making profit for around 10 years now, although I don't know exactly how badly Covid affected them. 

[thodrik]

To me it looks like a concept piece that requires a lot of hours to make and that results in a high price. Perhaps the asking price is a means of Fodera essentially saying 'yes, we can make this bass, but it is very difficult and complicated and we are only going to do it if it is really worth our while'. The price point is probably set on the understanding that Fodera don't expect (or particularly want) to receive thousands of orders.

 

I am pretty sure you spec a Warwick, Wal or a Ritter and come to the same price eventually if you add enough options. I put Fodera in the same category as those type of custom orders in that these are not instruments designed for sale to the general public but are instruments to be acquired by a very small clientele who frankly have money to burn, for whom a ridiculously expensive bass is no different to a ridiculously expensive concept car, luxury watch etc. As a result, this type of pricing does not really irritate me whatsoever. 

Frankly, it irritates me more when I see Warwick made Sadowsky Masterbuilt basses being sold at a higher pricepoint than Sadowsky basses made by Roger Sadowsky and even that doesn't really irk me, particularly given Warwick are entirely within their rights to set whatever price point they like under the licensing agreement and Warwick masterbuilt basses don't come cheap.