Jump to content

Public Liability Insurance and Pat Testing, Needed?


Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, simon1964 said:

 

Yes, if the band shares the fees for gigs amongst themselves they will almost certainly be a partnership in law. The sting there is that means that all band members are equally, and jointly, liable. Another good reason to have Public Liability Cover.

 

That's not the legal definition of being a partnership though. It is: "two or more individuals ‘carrying on a business in common with a view of profit’." At this stage it is worth clarifying exactly the type of situation the band Chienmortbb (OP) is in, because I imagine many bands will have been set up WITHOUT a "view of profit" but they might end up in a situation where they're paid for small pub/club gigs. Clearly some bands could be viewed like that, so WOULD be legally interpreted as a partnership.

 

But then its also possible that in setting a band up, its done as a Limited Liability Partnership. This wouldn't be incidental or presumed, the members would have subscribed their names to an incorporation document.

 

When we took our band from a non-gigging bunch of people who just happened to meet up at the same time each week in a scout hut, to a properly registered entity which did (sometimes quite high) paying gigs, we went the route to establish a constitution, bank account, membership of Making Music etc and it was a somewhat counterintuitive, definite process we had to go through with a lot of admin. All band members were very aware at the time of what was going on.

 

ETA In terms of insurance, I can't imagine any insurer offering PLI without some type of underlying admin or statement which is agreed to, which clarifies the legal status of the thing they're insuring, since its not a simple case of insuring an individual. IIRC Musicians Union don't do PLI for groups either.

Edited by paul_c2
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Bassfinger said:

But the MU do provide cover for individuals working as part of a group.

 

Indeed they do - for the situations where its an individual who requires it. For example a solo act; or a music teacher, or when you're depping; or when you're in a group which isn't a "partnership" or some other legal being of its own. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
On 01/04/2022 at 23:55, wateroftyne said:

I've got PAT stickers on my stuff that I bought from eBay just in case, but I've never been asked.

I've spent the afternoon PAT testing a load of secondhand gear bought off fleabay that's having its first outing next week. 

 

Three kettle leads had line and neutral reversed inside moulded-on plugs.

 

Needless to say, they're now in the bin with the offending plugs cut off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, lozkerr said:

I've spent the afternoon PAT testing a load of secondhand gear bought off fleabay that's having its first outing next week. 

 

Three kettle leads had line and neutral reversed inside moulded-on plugs.

 

Needless to say, they're now in the bin with the offending plugs cut off.

Sadly, that's not rare.

 

I do our gear, as I also look after the PA stuff. It made sense for me to get a tester (didn't bother with the 1/2 day course) as I do the testing for some theatre stuff as well. We sometimes have acts coming into us and in that case, we don't ask them for anything, but is something looks a bit off, we'll have a look at it for them. 

 

As others have said, the legal requirement is for it to be safe, not for it to be tested, no matter how many stickers are on it. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, lozkerr said:

I've spent the afternoon PAT testing a load of secondhand gear bought off fleabay that's having its first outing next week. 

 

Three kettle leads had line and neutral reversed inside moulded-on plugs.

 

Needless to say, they're now in the bin with the offending plugs cut off.

 

 

Can you post the name of the seller so they can be avoided?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

Interesting, what testers are you using?

 

I don't have it with me, but I think it's a Seaward model. There's also an app you can download (PAT mobile) which helps you keep a track of everything you've tested and when the re-test dates are.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There really should be a sticky for this, it comes up so often.

 

The PAT test basically gives you proof that you've periodically inspected your equipment. 

 

Most people will already have PLI if they're a home owner but it could be difficult to prove the activity of playing in a band isn't a business activity. It may be worth talking to your insurer and get them to write to you to say they'll cover you. Similar to how you notify them if you have possessions over £1000. 

 

Edited by TimR
Link to comment
Share on other sites

IMO al bands should have PLI that specifically covers the activities of the band. As soon as a band is playing in a public space then there are endless eventualitites, no matter how unlikely they may seem, that could see the band and its members liable for damage to people or property.

Edited by mrtcat
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, mrtcat said:

IMO al bands should have PLI that specifically covers the activities of the band. As soon as a band is playing in a public space then there are endless eventualitites, no matter how unlikely they may seem, that could see the band and its members liable for damage to people or property.

Completely agree.

Our guitarist and singer haven't got much money or property if we were to be sued.

It would all come down on me and the drummer.

PLI is essential IMO

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 01/04/2022 at 17:23, Chienmortbb said:

I was asked for both Public Liability insurance and PAT testing certificates for all out gear for a social club gig yesterday.  It was explained that the Club in question had just changed Insurers and it was a condition of the ne policy. Sounds a bit like changing from Fully Comp to Third Party Fire and Theft on a car to me. Is this common? Is it a new thing? Is it reasonable?

 

It means the club has reduced the cost of its own insurance by not covering any third parties, ie the bands or other entertainers. So if your PA falls over and hits someone etc, your insurance would be paying out rather than the club's insurance. If you don't have  insurance the you'll be stumping up the cash out of your own pocket.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, chris_b said:

 

It means the club has reduced the cost of its own insurance by not covering any third parties, ie the bands or other entertainers. So if your PA falls over and hits someone etc, your insurance would be paying out rather than the club's insurance. If you don't have  insurance the you'll be stumping up the cash out of your own pocket.

 

The club will be protecting themselves. Anyone injured on their property is covered by their insurance. 

 

The club insurers are reducing their exposure to risk by making sure 3rd parties liable to cause injury are covered. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, fretmeister said:

Can you post the name of the seller so they can be avoided?

I can't remember what came from who now and I don't want to libel anyone, sorry - I bought the gear a while ago from several different people and all the electric string that came with it was put into the same box to await test and inspection. Plus, even if I did know who they were, it might be unfair to blame the seller as a lot of the cables accompanied double-insulated lights, where switching line and neutral wouldn't even be noticed unless a PAT test was done.

 

 

I guess the lesson is that the copper's ABC mantra should always apply to used electrical gear bought off tinterwebz - Accept nothing, Believe nobody and Check everything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Chienmortbb said:

Interesting, what testers are you using?

Mine is a Martindale HPAT400 - a simple pass/fail tester. I did think about getting a more expensive model, but given that it would only be used for our single-phase band gear, a simple yes/no seemed sufficient.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...