Learning the tunes and managing post gig self critique?

[DocTrucker]

Recently jumped at the chance to join a band pieced together from our local music school. Up until around early 2019 I'd been learning bass at the school but had lost enthusiasm. This band is the first time I've played with others - aside from a tutor - and required many big steps for me such as comitting songs to memory and ditching my tab comfort blanket. Playing with others has given me back the spark for playing that I had lost.

 

Our first set was a short 25min one Saturday just gone and the amount information and experience gathered from that is mountain like, and I am now slowly chipping through it in order to get the most from it. Two big question areas. How you folks structure the songs in your heads to learn them? How do you balance self critique?

 

Learning songs to play in their entirety without tab to refer to was new to me. I took the approach of tabbing it out (with a few tweaks or simplifications) on my computer so I could hear an isolated 'perfect'  bass line to help get the muscle memory sorted. Next step was playing over and over against album tracks of the originals - including versions of songs that I hacked to suit changes we had made. On the later rehersals where we all 'knew' the songs it fell apart in the abscence of the singer. We were relying on the vocals to guide us through the song stucture. The gig also highlighted an issue with practicing against original tracks and dealing with not bring able to hear everyone clearly on stage. While playing at the gig it all felt odd, almost deja vu like as I suspect key parts or sounds I had subconciuosly anchored my song structure to were either missing or lost in the mix.

 

What methods do you use to structure songs in your head? Sure no one size fits all, but can you simply play your bass parts in their entirety with  nothing to guide you? I found that most tricky on the simplest bass lines where a 2 or 4 bar pattern is repeated to death before a suden change. Do you learn the lyrics to the songs word perfect and have an internal monologue singing them out or think more interms of intro - verse 1 - verse 2 - chorus - bridge etc? Practice the complete songs in isolation against a metronome/click track?

 

And now the big one, managing you mindset! There's no subsitute for experience. For a newbee to gigging the stress levels were up in the beams as I juggled with many new to me experiences and challanges. I'm sure gig 2 will be more enjoyable for me. For this gig though while on stage I felt like I was playing chicken with a dump truck at night. I was mentally cooked when I came off stage and rather than enjoying the posative vibes and feedback I had already begun to over analyse my mistakes and spiralled, taking the best part of a day after to sort my head out. How best to manage a healthy balance of self critique for continual improvement and enjoying the moment?

 

Deep questions really, and things many of you manage with little thought. Not quite asking how do I be a bassist, but not far from!

Edited March 15, 2022 by DocTrucker

[Geek99]

You really shouldn’t be following the singer, is one thing I’d say. The repeated sections question is one I only solved by learning to count them 

 

i think you’re criticising yourself far too much though. 

Edited March 15, 2022 by Geek99

[Norris]

For your first ever gig, if you got to the end of it without being paid off, that's a result! Don't beat yourself up, but take some glory out of the fact that you did it. Well done!

 

Save the self critique for later

[DocTrucker]

Yeah, I know I've been too hard on myself this time. Need to change my mindset for gigs vs practice.

[Geek99]

I totally corpsed them first time through nerves, tho the guitarist who’d given me my first shot was very generous. I got up and did it again a few weeks later and stormed it 

 

So as Norris says, you did quite well 

[DocTrucker]

53 minutes ago, Geek99 said:

The repeated sections question is one I only solved by learning to count them

So thinking something like:

Intro

1  2  3

Verse

1  2  3  4

 

Giving the ability move about a bit it somrone comes in a bar or two too late for a solo, or singing a verse?

[Geek99]

Yes, you keep time, don’t expect them to

[JapanAxe]

Almost all songs are built up from sections and you’ll have a much easier time learning them if you tackle them that way, like this typical structure:

Intro

Verse 1

Verse 2 (same as Verse 1)

Chorus

Verse 3 (same as Verse 1 but repeat last 2 bars)

Guitar solo (same as Verse 1)

Chorus

Chorus (drop last 2 bars)

Outro (like intro but slows down at end)

 

This means you only have to learn 3 sections plus a couple of variations.

 

In terms of post-gig analysis, congratulations on being so focused on improvement. Make a written note soon afterwards of whatever the issues were. This will allow you to enjoy your life without obsessing over your perceived ‘failures’ as well as ensuring the valuable information is not lost.

 

Next day, look at your notes and decide first whether each issue was down to you, another band member, or the whole band. Take one of ‘your’ issues and break it down into small actions that you can do to improve. Work on those in your practice time.

 

Raise the other issues at your next band rehearsal but avoid blaming people. If the singer came in early after the guitar solo say ‘Can we run through where the solo goes back into verse.’ Playing in a band is very much a team enterprise and it’s good to be the person who clearly has the band’s interests at heart.

[Lozz196]

One of my bands doesn’t have a singer so I’m in this position. I just find that practice practice practice is my way of learning, and when we’re playing I replay the actual song in my head along with us so I know where we are. A good few of our songs are quite difficult too, timing changes, breakdown sections etc, so doing this really helps me to focus on where we are.

[christhammer666]

if i have recordings ill learn songs this way

 

learn intro - play it

learn first verse- play it

play intro and verse until right etc etc 

[JapanAxe]

12 minutes ago, christhammer666 said:

if i have recordings ill learn songs this way

 

learn intro - play it

learn first verse- play it

play intro and verse until right etc etc 

 

I start at the and and work backwards. (The idea came from this very forum iirc.) This means that when you are learning a section, as you come to the end of it you are into familiar territory rather than a part you haven't learned yet. Works for me!

[Joe Nation]

56 minutes ago, JapanAxe said:

I start at the and and work backwards.

Interesting idea, might have to give that a go.

[dclaassen]

I have had to learn a lot of material lately, much of which I either don't know, or have not played in years. I sit and listen to the song 2 or 3 times, just to get the general flow. Then, I just focus on chord changes...block them out only using 1 and the occasional 4 or 5. I also start thinking about hand position switches (major/minor, etc). When I can play all the root positions of all the chords, I'll start listening and copying the bass line. Sometimes this is really easy, sometimes it is lots more difficult. I figure out the easy sections, then research examples for the harder stuff.  Keep doing this until I can play the song, then go back (over time) and isolate the harder licks, playing them in isolation and also incorporating them into the song. Keep going back to the same song every couple of days. 

 

For an easy song  (ex. Louie, Louie)...this all takes about 15 minutes--once. 

 

For something like "I Wish", "The Chicken", etc, it could take days, weeks, or months (some licks on Chris Berg's "Chicken Arrangement" still escape me).

 

As far as how you feel....right now you should be experiencing and learning. Being comfortable will come quickly and easily. Be patient in moving from the unknown to the familiar. Please remember that beginnings should be celebrated just as much as mastery. 

 

Good for you! Thanks for being so open and honest...and...good luck!

[ambient]

Depends on your knowledge, but I look at the structure of the song: intro, verse, chorus etc.

 

I then work out what’s going on harmonically. I want to know what key the song is in, and I want to know what the chords are, the bass line will pretty much be built from the chords.
 

Most pop and rock songs are built following recognisable chord progressions. Something bluesy will probably be a I/IV/V. From that I know what the roots are, and can hear what the other notes are, they’re usually diatonic (from the chords/scales), with perhaps the odd passing note.

 

If I know the chords I can busk if I forget the actual line.

 

As with anything else, it’s just practice.

[Boodang]

Bands I've been in, we've always paid a lot of attention to the live sound both in terms of what the audience hears (if you have control of that on the night) and importantly being able to hear each other on stage. Difficult to be a 'tight' sounding band if you're deaf to what's being played by the other musicians.

[Boodang]

Oh... and record your gigs! Even if it's just a small field recorder like a Zoom (which is just the size of an electric razor) at the back of the room. 

When I used to play competition squash we used to video our games so it wasn't just the impression in our head of how the performance went. Same with recording a gig. You might be surprised by how well, or not!!, it went.

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

One thing I’ve learnt, and it maybe just me, is that although I like the learning process, practice and rehearsals, you can overdo it.

Learning and practising the same thing over and over again until you ‘get it’ is a bad thing, for me anyway.

More often than not, I’ll work on something and still feel I’m no further forward, but then leave it for a day.

Coming back after a break, I find a lot more went in than I thought it had and I’m able to capitalise on it.

Using this method for learning a lot of ‘foreign to me’ sets for dep slots really helps.

[TimR]

Learn the song structure before you pick up the bass.

 

Work out what key it's in. Learn your major and minor scales, the rest will then be very easy. 

 

Be prepared to make changes to what you've 'learned' at home playing to the recording, because your band arrangement will be different for a variety of reasons, from talent through to instrumentation.

 

Watch the rest of your band members and listen to what they're playing and adjust your playing to fit. Just playing what you 'learned at home' will not work. 

 

Once you have an arrangement sorted, record it on your phone and take it home and learn it all properly by playing it repeatedly.

 

One gig is worth 1000 rehearsals, don't rehearse 1000 times before you gig. You will make mistakes and from them you will learn, no one else will remember them.

Edited March 17, 2022 by TimR

[redbandit599]

Unless you are a tribute, or focused on playing exact covers - then once you've got the song structure and any 'signature' riffs and licks down, then start paying more attention to what sounds good with YOUR band rather than the original.