hiram.k.hackenbacker Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 Just now, cetera said: I always find it best to understand 'context' and the relationship of 'those concerned' before heading off into rant territory and being offended on one of their behalfs.... Yes, very much the Ricky Gervais school of thinking here. Don't confuse the subject with the target. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newfoundfreedom Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 4 minutes ago, hiram.k.hackenbacker said: Yes, very much the Ricky Gervais school of thinking here. Don't confuse the subject with the target. Or indeed Jimmy Carr. His latest show was hilarious, but the cancel culture brigade's reaction to it was even funnier. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibob Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 32 minutes ago, Newfoundfreedom said: I'm not in the least bit offended. Just extremely bored with people who seemingly spend their entire lives looking around for something to be offended by, so they can whine about it on the internet. If you want to be offended, put down your phone, turn off your computer, and look out of the window. Seriously! There's far more important things happening in the world. But you honestly see a difference between how you’ve communicated your ‘extreme boredom’ and when others standing up for what they believe? It reads like you put yourself above them in some hierarchy because they’re ‘offended’ (your words, not theirs) about sexism in this case, but when it comes to you literally shouting about it on a forum, that’s ok, you’re just extremely bored?! Colour me fascinated. Si 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newfoundfreedom Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Sibob said: But you honestly see a difference between how you’ve communicated your ‘extreme boredom’ and when others standing up for what they believe? It reads like you put yourself above them in some hierarchy because they’re ‘offended’ (your words, not theirs) about sexism in this case, but when it comes to you literally shouting about it on a forum, that’s ok, you’re just extremely bored?! Colour me fascinated. Si Indeed. I'm a fascinating person. If humour doesn't cause offence to someone, you're probably not doing it right. Just my opinion of course. Feel free to cancel it at your convenience. Edited March 11, 2022 by Newfoundfreedom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 2 hours ago, Burns-bass said: The problem is that you’re unlikely to be a marginalised group the target of humour. If someone came on here and the butt of every joke was a balding, post-50 year old man who is slightly overweight and buys loads of gear they can’t play very well then you may feel different. That`s me included then 🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misdee Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, Boodang said: So, we have a swear filter on BC, should we have a 'misogyny' filter as well? Now, just taking this as an example, not to pick on anyone but just because it's a recently posted example (not by me!), a joke about carrying a dustpan and brush to gigs in case your female band members, due to their inherent bad driving abilities I'm assuming, need to sweep up debris from accidents they've had in the car park. Is there a place for this on BC, or is this just 'banter' (groan!), or am I being too sensitive. Do you find this joke funny or is this a stereotyping sexist trope that should have died out with Bernard Manning, or are you not that offended? Not wanting to have a go at anyone in particular but just genuinely interested to see how people feel about this. Well, firstly, the title of this thread implies that something called "toxic masculinity" is a definite thing that we all have to accept is real. Who got to decide what forms of masculinity are acceptable and those which are not, and what was their wider purpose in doing so? Why are we supposed to accept their judgement? People who become preoccupied with taking offence at the so-called injustices in the world invariably end up looking ridiculous because the world is a brutal place and human beings are inherently competitive creatures. That intrinsic cruelty is what has enabled humankind to survive and develop. We have flourished as a species primarily because we have an instinct to hurt each other. That, coupled with our instinct to help each other, is what has shaped our history. In light of that, what responsibility do people have to conform to someone else's timid and bourgeois idea of what is socially acceptable? Who is in charge of deciding and with what authority? Why isn't forbidding people to explore and express their so-called misogyny another form of injustice? Edited March 11, 2022 by Misdee 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cetera Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Misdee said: Well, firstly, the title of this thread implies that something called "toxic masculinity" is a definite thing that we all have to accept is real. Who got to decide what forms of masculinity are acceptable and those which are not, and what was their wider purpose in doing so? Why are we supposed to accept their judgement? Yeah, but that Vlad Pootin bloke..... there's some serious 'toxic masculinity' there though eh?! Along with 'little man syndrome', 'closet homosexuality', 'tiny penis syndrome' and 'eyes too close together syndrome'...... *runs for cover* Edited March 11, 2022 by cetera 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibob Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 4 minutes ago, Newfoundfreedom said: Indeed. I'm a fascinating person. If humour doesn't cause offence to someone, you're probably not doing it right. Just my opinion of course. Feel free to cancel it at your convenience. Just the skewed reaction was fascinating, nothing more. Si 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikon F Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 i like to take the p155 out of anyone who i think deserves it and i dont give a pile of pootin if it upsets them ..and in writing this i hope ive upset loads of people .thank you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, Boodang said: Now, just taking this as an example, not to pick on anyone but just because it's a recently posted example (not by me!), a joke about carrying a dustpan and brush to gigs in case your female band members, due to their inherent bad driving abilities I'm assuming, need to sweep up debris from accidents they've had in the car park. Some nights, I wish I had a dustpan and brush with me to sweep up my bum notes. 10 hours ago, Boodang said: Is there a place for this on BC, or is this just 'banter' (groan!), or am I being too sensitive. Do you find this joke funny or is this a stereotyping sexist trope that should have died out with Bernard Manning, or are you not that offended? I can't help feeling that rather than being offended on their behalf, we should ask our female members what they think? When I was at tech college back in the mid 18th century, one of the guys there was an afro-caribbean fella named Alex; he was a bus driver doing the BTEC electronics course on his days off to try to get a better job with prospects (his words), being a drive he'd obviously been subjected to a bit of abuse in his time but he said the thing that offended him far more than the actual racism, was being told what he should be offended by... more often than not, by well-meaning white people. Remember the whole 'you can't call it a blackboard' and 'baa baa black sheep is racist' stuff? It made him absolutely furious, he said it was patronising in the extreme. As he put it, he was perfectly capable of knowing what pssed him off and what didn't. He was a lovely bloke and I really hope he went on to get the career he craved. Edited March 11, 2022 by Rich 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 I don't think the post that you referenced was 'toxic'. At best, it came across as an unfunny, stereotypical joke, but when the poster explained a couple of posts later that it was based on something that actually happened to him, it made more sense. As for 'banter', I can't remember doing a single gig in 25 years where there hasn't been at least a bit of p!ss taking. In fact, the better the mates,the harder (and more insulting) it often becomes. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cetera Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 Or is the actual person who is subject of the 'joke' offended? If not, move on... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibob Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 3 minutes ago, Misdee said: Well, firstly, the title of this thread implies that something called "toxic masculinity" is a definite thing that we all have to accept is real. Who got to decide what forms of masculinity are acceptable and those which are not, and what was their wider purpose in doing so? Why are we supposed to accept their judgement? People who become preoccupied with taking offence at the so-called injustices in the world invariably end up looking ridiculous because the world is a brutal place and human beings are inherently competitive creatures. That intrinsic cruelty is what has enabled humankind to survive and develop. We have developed as a species primarily because we have an instinct to hurt each other. That, coupled with our instinct to help each other, is what has shaped our history. In light of that, what responsibility do people have to conform to someone else's timid and bourgeois idea of what is socially acceptable? Who is in charge of deciding and with what authority? Why isn't forbidding people to explore and express their so-called misogyny another form of injustice? I don’t think anyone is saying that people shouldn’t be allowed to express their views, but freedom of speech is not freedoms from consequence. Say something that the majority believe to be abhorrent, as is one’s right, get excommunicated by the very nature of a majority not wanting anything to do with you. Si 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saul Panzer Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 2 hours ago, Burns-bass said: The problem is that you’re unlikely to be a marginalised group the target of humour. If someone came on here and the butt of every joke was a balding, post-50 year old man who is slightly overweight and buys loads of gear they can’t play very well then you may feel different. (I’m making a crass generalisation because that’s how this works…) I can say from experience that I wouldn't feel different, if anything it reinforces my belief. The group think is the issue in a lot of cases, people forget that they're still an individual person above a member of a group and the sort of jokes in this post are 'generally' based on the group and/or stereotype and not a personal attack. Not saying I find them particularly funny, just not worth being offended about, specially when it's on the internet. The difference between "women are stereo-typically bad drivers" and "you Jane, are a bad driver" is paper thin to some people and a chasm to others. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newfoundfreedom Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Saul Panzer said: I can say from experience that I wouldn't feel different, if anything it reinforces my belief. The group think is the issue in a lot of cases, people forget that they're still an individual person above a member of a group and the sort of jokes in this post are 'generally' based on the group and/or stereotype and not a personal attack. Not saying I find them particularly funny, just not worth being offended about, specially when it's on the internet. The difference between "women are stereo-typically bad drivers" and "you Jane, are a bad driver" is paper thin to some people and a chasm to others. I've only quoted this post so I can like it twice 👍 Edited March 11, 2022 by Newfoundfreedom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 These threads always rapidly end up with everybody acting 'offended' even if they're mainly being offended by others taking offence. It's almost comically circular. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newfoundfreedom Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 Just now, Cato said: These threads always rapidly end up with everybody acting 'offended' even if they're mainly being offended by others taking offence. It's almost comically circular. I'm offended that you feel that way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misdee Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 14 minutes ago, cetera said: Yeah, but that Vlad Pootin bloke..... there's some serious 'toxic masculinity' there though eh?! Along with 'little man syndrome', 'closet homosexuality', 'tiny penis syndrome' and 'eyes too close together syndrome'...... *runs for cover* Toxic or not, when the dust settles Putin will have achieved his aim of securing Russia's borders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40hz Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 (edited) In the words of Bill and Ted "be excellent to each other" and you can't go wrong. I live life by the view of don't do or say anything to anyone, I wouldn't like done to myself. If people could try to put themselves in the others person's shoes, the world would be a better place, but, sadly, this seems to be a dimishing ability, society-wide. However, on the flip side, I have to say, I'm definitely not a fan of this seemingly desperate need these days to compartmentalise and label people, negatively. Edited March 11, 2022 by 40hz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newfoundfreedom Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 Just now, Misdee said: Toxic or not, when the dust settles Putin will have achieved his aim of securing Russia's borders. Well that went off on a tangent 😂 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munurmunuh Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 14 minutes ago, Sibob said: Just the skewed reaction was fascinating, nothing more. Seeing narcissism thriving in such adverse conditions intrigued 🤓 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
such Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Misdee said: People who become preoccupied with taking offence at the so-called injustices in the world invariably end up looking ridiculous because the world is a brutal place and human beings are inherently competitive creatures. That intrinsic cruelty is what has enabled humankind to survive and develop. We have flourished as a species primarily because we have an instinct to hurt each other. That, coupled with our instinct to help each other, is what has shaped our history. So we were wrong stopping Holocaust? Because injustice is only a "so-called" concept, and cruelty is natural and good for mankind's thriving? For the large majority of its history, the humankind was also shaped by not brushing their teeth and not using electronic devices. How are you doing sticking with that, in order to be a manlier blokier bloke? Edited March 11, 2022 by such 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misdee Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 3 minutes ago, Newfoundfreedom said: Well that went off on a tangent 😂 12 minutes ago, Sibob said: I don’t think anyone is saying that people shouldn’t be allowed to express their views, but freedom of speech is not freedoms from consequence. Say something that the majority believe to be abhorrent, as is one’s right, get excommunicated by the very nature of a majority not wanting anything to do with you. Si You are quite right Si, that freedom of speech must have responsibility attached, but I don't accept that the majority of people don't want anything to do with people who express certain views which differ greatly from their own and are supposedly taboo. Rather, they have been told that they should shun certain opinions as a matter of policy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 We've progressed from criticism of a dated gag about a dustpan and brush to the Holocaust in less than two pages. None's the wonder the world's on a knife-edge. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burns-bass Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 31 minutes ago, cetera said: Or is the actual person who is subject of the 'joke' offended? If not, move on... So a white person can't be offended by a racist joke? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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