Are bolt on neck joints rubbish?!

[Reggaebass]

22 minutes ago, Cato said:

It's a shame Fender only seem to feature it on US made instruments

Yeah cato, and I’m not really sure but I don’t think they started doing it until the elite came out in 2016 

[ped]

It doesn’t bother me but it does look a bit ‘simple’ I suppose, all things considered. I do like it when a more elegant way is developed - Leo’s designs are there to be developed, after all, rather than just copied. Here’s a good one. Heel is slanted towards treble side, rounded and with individual machined bolts. 
 

FWIW I do think there’s a tonal difference between bolt on and neck thru but without being able to compare like for like that will have to remain a pov

 

 

[Dan Dare]

15 hours ago, Boodang said:

that clumsy neck joint that stops your thumb around the 15th fret

 

What on earth are you doing up around the 15th fret? Madness.

[Lord Sausage]

But what pick is best for a bolt on neck?

[Paul S]

2 hours ago, Cato said:

 

I've got a pro ii strat with a similar heel design.

 

Tbh I was surprised how much easier such a small and presumably inexpensive design change made to the upper fret access.

 

It's a shame Fender only seem to feature it on US made instruments.

 

I had a similar heel on the MIJ P Bass Lyte.

 

[Boodang]

1 hour ago, Dan Dare said:

 

What on earth are you doing up around the 15th fret? Madness.

It's utter madness when I play my 5 string Sei which is strung high C and has a 24 fret neck. I have to admit it's not very James Jamerson when I'm playing up there!

[Boodang]

Meant to say in the OP the reason for raising the neck joint thing and why I'm playing up that high... Janek Gwizdala's Chordal Harmony book!

Now I've never been a bolt on fan and the exercises in this book definitely highlight the issues. My Sei is ideal and was designed for this sort of thing (5 string high C) and I'm sure Mr Fender never had this sort of playing in mind with his designs, but it would work well if upper access was easier. Hence a custom build in progress of a set neck jazz 4 string fretless with 24 'fret' access.

[Boodang]

16 hours ago, Paul S said:

What are you doing all the way up there, anyway?  

Janek Gwizdala's Chordal Harmony book!

[Boodang]

Also, and I know I'm dragging this out so bear with me, try playing a C minor root ten double stop at the 20th fret to see how comfortable your bass is at that point.

In answer to those who say why would you do this anyway, it's because it sounds nice.

[dave_bass5]

17 hours ago, Boodang said:

When you go from this to a bass with a standard bolt on neck it really does feel clumsy, clunky and awkward. I'm sure there's a moduler cost saving element to it but this is a guitar not an ikea table and for me a bolt on is far from ideal. And how much is a Fender American standard? Maybe bolt on necks should just be banned!!!

Exactly this, its just a bit (or couple of bits of wood and some metal 😎). If people want to pay a lot more for works of art then thats a different matter, but im guessing this is really just personal preference and not a big deal for most.

Every time i play a neck through i feel uncomfortable, like im missing something. Its probably that the neck joint is a familiar point on the neck for me, but its somethings i would rather have than not have. Especially considering the cost differences most of the time. 

[Doddy]

Pretty much all of my basses are bolt on and I don't have any issue with playing in the upper range, which I do a lot.  It's a bit of a pain to reach the top couple of frets on the Warwick, but my other basses all have really good access to the top frets. Even on a Fender I don't think it's difficult to reach the high Eb. 

Ultimately, for me, the choice of neck join is about tone more than anything else.

[Boodang]

36 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Exactly this, its just a bit (or couple of bits of wood and some metal 😎). If people want to pay a lot more for works of art then thats a different matter, but im guessing this is really just personal preference and not a big deal for most.

Every time i play a neck through i feel uncomfortable, like im missing something. Its probably that the neck joint is a familiar point on the neck for me, but its somethings i would rather have than not have. Especially considering the cost differences most of the time. 

I don't think it has to be expensive to not be a bolt on. I guess the neck joint is like a DB where the body/neck join is a position indication. 

[Boodang]

35 minutes ago, Doddy said:

Pretty much all of my basses are bolt on and I don't have any issue with playing in the upper range, which I do a lot.  It's a bit of a pain to reach the top couple of frets on the Warwick, but my other basses all have really good access to the top frets. Even on a Fender I don't think it's difficult to reach the high Eb. 

Ultimately, for me, the choice of neck join is about tone more than anything else.

I don't find Eb on it's own too much of a problem but a Cm root ten double stop up there is not that comfortable and I do like double stops! (Aka Janek Gwizdala Chordal Harmony). 

Definitely also a tone thing... I think a set neck has a similar tone to a bolt on which is why I'm going that way with a new build so I get the best of both worlds, a jazz bass with better upper access.

[dclaassen]

Perhaps if I was a studio player this would be a bigger deal,  but I have some experience with both types of necks and have never seen that as the determining factor with either sound or feel.

[Bassfinger]

It makes no odds whstsoever to my playing.

[Bleat]

This is my set neck and upper fret "access". I think they are just there for show. Even my long fingers aren't long enough to do anything up there. I don't care about higher than the 7th fret anyway. 

[Boodang]

47 minutes ago, Bleat said:

This is my set neck and upper fret "access". I think they are just there for show. Even my long fingers aren't long enough to do anything up there. I don't care about higher than the 7th fret anyway. 

Just as well you don't care about getting higher than the 7th fret with that bass!

[EssentialTension]

20 hours ago, Reggaebass said:

My jazz elite has the cutaway fo easier access to the upper frets, it’s not much use to me as I don’t venture up the dusty end  😁

 

7 hours ago, Reggaebass said:

Yeah cato, and I’m not really sure but I don’t think they started doing it until the elite came out in 2016 

 

My 2006 American Deluxe Precision had something similar.

 

I don't know if it worked because I never went up there.

 

Welll, once maybe, but I got dizzy.

 

Edited March 6, 2022 by EssentialTension

[dave_bass5]

1 hour ago, EssentialTension said:

 

 

Unless im missing something, that has a standard joint/heel, with a curved neck plate. Not the same thing at all.

[sykilz]

Some of the mid range Yamaha BB basses have a similar 'rounded off' joint, but on a cheaper Yamaha I've not had problems accessing upper frets, I guess you adapt to what the guitar is shaped like eventually??

 

[4000]

8 hours ago, Dan Dare said:

 

What on earth are you doing up around the 15th fret? Madness.

I spend more time up there than in the first five! 

[dave_bass5]

2 minutes ago, 4000 said:

I spend more time up there than in the first five! 

Buy a proper guitar then 😂

[FDC484950]

I have played a lot of basses over the years, 4-7 strings, set neck, bolt on, neck thru and even single piece (Status Empathy). I’ve never found a neck through bass I really liked (Ken Smith BSR Elite G came closest). They seem to lack just a tiny bit of focus. And if a builder as highly regarded as Michael Tobias switched to bolt on necks (he thinks the sound is tighter apparently) who am I to argue? 
IME it’s actually the lower cutaway rather than the heel that restricts access on most basses.

[Boodang]

2 minutes ago, FDC484950 said:

I have played a lot of basses over the years, 4-7 strings, set neck, bolt on, neck thru and even single piece (Status Empathy). I’ve never found a neck through bass I really liked (Ken Smith BSR Elite G came closest). They seem to lack just a tiny bit of focus. And if a builder as highly regarded as Michael Tobias switched to bolt on necks (he thinks the sound is tighter apparently) who am I to argue? 
IME it’s actually the lower cutaway rather than the heel that restricts access on most basses.

In terms of playability I've always preferred a neck thru, in terms of tone I liked both. I've always found a neck thru to be less prone to dead spots but that could just be luck of the draw.

Now, I'm going to put my cynical hat on here and hypothesise that 'the sound is tighter' is code for it's cheaper to to build a bolt on. Vigier did the same thing, versions 1, 2 & 3 are neck thru, then along comes version 4 and it's a bolt on. A tone decision or a cost cutting one?

 

[Lfalex v1.1]

19 minutes ago, FDC484950 said:

 IME it’s actually the lower cutaway rather than the heel that restricts access on most basses.

 

Frequently this.  Though I seem to work around it. I just can't wear a watch and play my Ibanez EDC..

FWIW, I just hit the 21st fret (of 21). I love a big glissando.. work through the (extended) scale up to it, then all the way back down E³ to E¹..