Pub gig fees

[Happy Jack]

1 minute ago, Lozz196 said:

In a previous band, about 10 years ago we would get £250 - £300. One band member was always saying we were worth more, at least £400/£450, so we said fine, get us a gig paying that. Still waiting.

 

Bin there, dun that. Bandmates can say the strangest things ...

 

[ubit]

Just now, Lozz196 said:

In a previous band, about 10 years ago we would get £250 - £300. One band member was always saying we were worth more, at least £400/£450, so we said fine, get us a gig paying that. Still waiting.

 

 

This is it. You can over charge and people think, I aint paying that. You have to realise the venue is a business and has to make money too. Thats why we had an unwritten rule to charge the same. No one would get ripped off and the bars couldn't hold anyone to ransom.

[peteb]

Just now, Lozz196 said:

In a previous band, about 10 years ago we would get £250 - £300. One band member was always saying we were worth more, at least £400/£450, so we said fine, get us a gig paying that. Still waiting.

 

It doesn't matter how good you think your band are, there are only so many people in the pub catchment area who will turn up and drink beer. If you are getting people from other towns coming to see you, it is likely that they will be driving and therefore (hopefully) not drinking! That's no good to a landlord when he's not charging admission and relying on beer sales. 

 

[ubit]

It doesn't matter how good a musician you are either. You could be the next Jeff Beck playing in the Dog and Duck and if the punters or landlord don't like you then you are onto plums. I know a guitarist who is technically excellent. His band played at a wedding and he insisted on doing four minute blues solos even although the rest of the band were pleading with him to play Brown Eyed Girl or something. He thought no, this is what I do, I'm too good for this mob.

 

Many years ago not long after we started we used to support a band who were technically better than us but took themselves far too serious. We used to regularly blow them off the stage because we played fun songs and enjoyed ourselves doing it.

[4000]

38 minutes ago, neepheid said:

 

Just thought I'd check and take the opportunity to make the distinction - as I'm sure you're aware (not everyone is, it seems) it's wildly different for originals bands, you're minted if you "make it", but at the other end of the scale it's £50 after doing the promoter's job for them and expected to be grateful that your existence was acknowledged, nothing or even worse ... pay to play.

 

I physically shuddered as I typed that last bit!

As an originals band we average about £150 a gig. Sometimes a little less, sometimes more. 

[peteb]

7 minutes ago, ubit said:

It doesn't matter how good a musician you are either. You could be the next Jeff Beck playing in the Dog and Duck and if the punters or landlord don't like you then you are onto plums. I know a guitarist who is technically excellent. His band played at a wedding and he insisted on doing four minute blues solos even although the rest of the band were pleading with him to play Brown Eyed Girl or something. He thought no, this is what I do, I'm too good for this mob.

 

Many years ago not long after we started we used to support a band who were technically better than us but took themselves far too serious. We used to regularly blow them off the stage because we played fun songs and enjoyed ourselves doing it.

 

It all depends on the gig. That guitar player might have stormed it at a club gig on the blues circuit, but the wedding was the wrong gig for him. Generally, better bands will do better than mediocre ones, but its not just about sheer musicianship. Stagecraft and being an entertainer is just (or more) important. 

 

Essentially, the vast majority of us are just song and dance men - but what the song and what the dance is depends on what audience is coming to see us. 

 

Edited January 13, 2022 by peteb

[neepheid]

4 minutes ago, 4000 said:

As an originals band we average about £150 a gig. Sometimes a little less, sometimes more. 

 

That's pretty good, or at least it's above the lower end of the scale I outlined

[spike]

A similar thing happened with our band last year. We needed a dep drummer for a pub gig and our guitarist put ad on Facebook offering £80. We got loads of flak along the lines of how we were devaluing live music, stealing money from professional musicians, no decent musician in their right mind would take this gig etc. etc. , it went on for days.

 

In the meantime we were contacted by several drummers who were willing to do the gig and we ended up with a pro drummer who was honestly the best drummer I have ever played with but was happy to do the gig for £80 rather than just sit at home complaining on Facebook. A couple months later we offered him a wedding gig for three times the money.

 

There seem to be loads of 'professional' musicians on Facebook who don't seem to realise that pub gigs and functions are separate markets. If you are a pro musician who thinks that pub money is a threat to your livelihood you are in the wrong job IMO.

 

Edited January 13, 2022 by spike

[peteb]

Just now, spike said:

A similar thing happened with our band last year. We needed a dep drummer for a pub gig and our guitarist put ad on Facebook offering £80. We got loads of flak along the lines of how we were devaluing live music, stealing money from professional musicians, no decent musician in their right mind would take this gig etc. etc. , it went on for days.

 

In the meantime we were contacted by several drummers who were willing to do the gig and we ended up with a pro drummer who was honestly the best drummer I have ever played with but was happy to do the gig for £80 rather than just sit at home complaining on Facebook. A couple months later we offered him a wedding gig for four times the money.

 

There seem to be loads of 'professional' musicians on Facebook who don't seem to realise that pub gigs and functions are separate markets. If you are a pro musician who thinks that pub money is a threat to your livelihood you are in the wrong job IMO.

 

 

Spot on... 

 

[ubit]

2 minutes ago, spike said:

A similar thing happened with our band last year. We needed a dep drummer for a pub gig and our guitarist put ad on Facebook offering £80. We got loads of flak along the lines of how we were devaluing live music, stealing money from professional musicians, no decent musician in their right mind would take this gig etc. etc. , it went on for days.

 

In the meantime we were contacted by several drummers who were willing to do the gig and we ended up with a pro drummer who was honestly the best drummer I have ever played with but was happy to do the gig for £80 rather than just sit at home complaining on Facebook. A couple months later we offered him a wedding gig for four times the money.

 

There seem to be loads of 'professional' musicians on Facebook who don't seem to realise that pub gigs and functions are separate markets. If you are a pro musician who thinks that pub money is a threat to your livelihood you are in the wrong job IMO.

 

 

 

What you have said basically agrees with what I said though. £80 each? We would have jumped at that. We were not saying that someone would threaten our livelihood. We merely thought a fair price for every band was the way it should be.

[dclaassen]

I don’t understand the vitriol either. As someone trying to break back into to gigging scene, I would be very happy with £50 at the end of the night. How much would I make sitting at home?

[4000]

14 minutes ago, neepheid said:

 

That's pretty good, or at least it's above the lower end of the scale I outlined

Previous bands often played for nothing - well, maybe drinks or up to £50 - for years.😂 The current band had one regular gig that paid £400 but unfortunately the pub changed management and that was that. 

[spike]

4 minutes ago, ubit said:

 

 

What you have said basically agrees with what I said though. £80 each? We would have jumped at that. We were not saying that someone would threaten our livelihood. We merely thought a fair price for every band was the way it should be.

 

Sorry, I wasn't commenting on  your post and years ago in my area there was a similar system to yours regarding pay. 

[peteb]

46 minutes ago, Happy Jack said:

I'm not really a big believer in applying socialist principles to matters involving talent. 😉

 

Actually, the pub gigging circuit in pubs and other venues that semi-pro bands are likely to play is a pretty good example of how a market is supposed to work! 

 

Having said that, I have no problem with bands getting similar fees. I used to play in a pretty popular pub band and there were certain pubs that we would pack out and provide far better value to the landlord than the £250 we (and every other band) were getting. However, you can't play the same four or five pubs all the time and there were new gigs where we would get £250 despite not getting a big crowd, al least not until we had played a couple of times to start to build up a following there. So, in some places we were, in effect subsidising other bands, whereas in different places other bands were subsidising us! 

 

Pubs need a rota of enough good quality bands (that can be refreshed from time to time) so punters don't get bored of seeing the same bands all the time. Similarly, bands need a list of enough pubs in different areas so they can gig constantly without the same punters seeing them too frequently and getting bored of them! 

 

Edited January 13, 2022 by peteb

[ubit]

8 minutes ago, dclaassen said:

I don’t understand the vitriol either. As someone trying to break back into to gigging scene, I would be very happy with £50 at the end of the night. How much would I make sitting at home?

 

 

This is the thing, we were making something like £50/£60 each a night. Every band made the same. This other band came in and charged what equated to £30/£40 a night. Thats why we were annoyed. Pubs were giving them gigs and they were undercutting everyone else. Nothing illegal in that just morally annoying.

[ubit]

You try getting 5 plumbers out on a Saturday night for 4 hours and see what they charge you.

[dclaassen]

Were these guys as good?  Did they draw a crowd? I do understand your frustration, because in my experience, pub owners like to hang onto their money.

[Happy Jack]

3 minutes ago, dclaassen said:

Were these guys as good?  Did they draw a crowd? I do understand your frustration, because in my experience, pub owners like to hang onto their money.

I'd be concerned by a plumber who drew a crowd ...

[peteb]

9 minutes ago, ubit said:

 

 

This is the thing, we were making something like £50/£60 each a night. Every band made the same. This other band came in and charged what equated to £30/£40 a night. Thats why we were annoyed. Pubs were giving them gigs and they were undercutting everyone else. Nothing illegal in that just morally annoying.

 

Sensible landlords will be wary of a band that charges too little. The fact that they are prepared to undercut other bands suggests a lack of confidence in their abilities and the chances are that they are not very good (not to mention p***ing of all the decent bands in the area). Better to pay a band £250 who will keep people at the bar for the whole night than £150 to a band that will have punters running to the exit after one pint, vowing to never return! 

 

8 minutes ago, ubit said:

You try getting 5 plumbers out on a Saturday night for 4 hours and see what they charge you.

 

But unfortunately, that is a completely different market and therefore irrelevant. It's all down to supply and demand... 

 

Edited January 13, 2022 by peteb

[redbandit599]

There's a Coverband Facebook page over here in Essex where this seems to happen all the time, loads of people going on about how playing pubs for £250 undervalues them and 'How are we supposed to make a living?" type comments - I just think that if you are relying on pub gigs to make a living then, you probably aren't in the right job - or you aren't good enough/dedicated/appropriate to land the higher paying function work.

 

We play local pubs mostly and get £250-£300 between four of us.

 

Coming out of Covid we took the decision as a band to quietly offer our existing landlords a lower fee for any gig before the end of 2021, we called it Covid Relief - we actually said we'd do gigs them for £120. (Would have been lynched on Facebook 😜) - but when those landlords asked us at the end of the night what the fee was - we said "Well usually £250/£300, but as you know we are offering you a cheapy at £120 to help out."

Every single one of them nodded, went off and came back with the full normal fee - one even paid us more... 

Edited January 13, 2022 by redbandit599

[Lozz196]

Yep as @peteb says, similar happened in a local pub here, change of landladies, previous used to pay £250 for rock/punk covers bands, packed every Fri/Sat night. New one would only pay £120 so all she got were folk duos, playing to 3 or 4 people. 

Edited January 13, 2022 by Lozz196

[Happy Jack]

1 minute ago, redbandit599 said:

Coming out of Covid we took the decision as a band to quietly offer our existing landlords a lower fee for any gig before the end of 2021, we called it Covid Relief - we actually said we'd do gigs them for £120. (Would have been lynched on Facebook 😜) - but when those landlords asked us at the end of the night what the fee was - we said "Well usually £250/£300, but as you know we are offering you a cheapy at £120 to help out."

Every single one of them nodded, went off and came back with the full fee - one even paid us more... 

 

We did much the same thing, making the offer only to pubs who had previously paid full rate. Most of the pubs took the offer and were happy to pay the reduced fee, one pub where we like the landlord so much that we offered to pay for nowt insisted on paying us.

 

We did that because we wanted to, we wanted to 'put something back in' if you know what I mean. Of the pubs who took us up on our offer, very few of them are pubs we'll be playing in 2022. Some no longer do music, some only want solo artists or duos, some weren't that great to play anyway. That's OK, we didn't do it because we hoped it would gain us lots of high-fee gigs after Covid. 😂

[fleabag]

1 hour ago, peteb said:

 

But there was a shortage of fuel getting to the pumps, only it was caused there being a lack of drivers. Sill a shortage though.

 

 

In normal every day inflation,  pump prices rise  when crude oil costs rise.   They rose this time because of a situation that was exploited to the full

[BigRedX]

37 minutes ago, ubit said:

You try getting 5 plumbers out on a Saturday night for 4 hours and see what they charge you.

 

But unless you're a competent DIYer with a box full of the right tools and parts, there's no substitute for a decent plumber.

 

As a covers band you have to ask yourselves "what can we bring that is superior to a well chosen Spotify/iTunes playlist and how much extra is that worth?"

[TimR]

It's not really about how much the band gets paid, it's about how much the band are paying a dep.

 

If you're desperate to play that gig, then you'll have to pay the going rate for a dep. Which if you're a 4 piece band getting paid £250, it may mean established members getting paid less than 1/4 each to make up the shortfall.

 

Unless you're getting someone 'adequate' to fill in. 

 

The best course of action for regular pub gig band is to get a regular set of musicians that can cover your set. 

 

I used to have this argument all the time when we were pricing wedding gigs. What happens when half your band go down sick the day before, and you've agreed to do a wedding for £500 as a favour to a mate...

Edited January 13, 2022 by TimR