How slow should I be taking it?

[Biscuit_Bass]

Hi all,

So as a total beginner who's been experiencing discomfort in my fretting wrist (I have weak joints in my wrists anyway), I have started looking for videos/posts addressing the problem. The majorty of them say to slow things right down, and literally focus on fretting a single note with each finger in turn to first build up strength. For example, 3rd fret on the E string with index, middle, ring, pinkie in turn, before even thinking about trying to do 1 finger per fret.

With the vast array of online tuition these days, many of them seem to be getting the complete beginner playing tunes as soon as possible (by the end of the first lesson in many cases). For me, I have found many of the basslines a bit of a stretch (literally) which has been causing me pain and discomfort because I'm focussing on playing the tune, rather than good technique and finding a comfortable way of fretting. So, should these online courses be cut into bite size chunks and more attention be paid to the VERY basics for a longer period of time?

Of course I would like to be playing basslines ASAP but I feel like it's going to be much more of a benefit to sort out my fretting arm,hand and wrist to try and get it relaxed as possible in various positions.

What advice do you all have and would you agree with the above?

Many thanks

[Thunderbird]

Try playing for about 10mins at a time each day as it will let you absorb what you are learning better but more importantly will let your wrists and fingers build up strength then you can gradually build up how long you play 

[Steve Browning]

I wonder where your bass is? Is it near your ankles? The position of the bass influences the bend of your wrist etc. This can have a bearing.

[mr4stringz]

A few thoughts -

 

1) Take into account the short attention span/immediate results expectations that many have now online . That’s why there are loads of vids that will move you to playing songs at a gallop rather than a canter. If it feels to fast to do that then yes, take a step back.

 

2) What’s your playing position? Assuming you’re playing seated at present look at where your bass is positioned and where the neck is compared to players in seated positions you see elsewhere. It’ll help as a guide to ensure you’re nice and level and not playing with the neck loads further down (or up from) the body for example, and that you’re not getting j to bad posture habits early on, which all can make quite the difference. 

 

3) How long are you playing for in a stretch? As has been suggested above, shorter sprints might be better for you than settling in for marathons.

 

4) No one set formula is going to work well for one person to the next. But listen to your body above all else. 

Edited January 1, 2022 by mr4stringz

[Cato]

It takes a little while to time to build up fretting hand strength and suppleness, some discomfort from using muscles that most people don't use much is normal when you're starting out.

 

Having said that you should probably check your playing position. Having the bass too low or too high can cause wrist problems.

[Biscuit_Bass]

25 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

I wonder where your bass is? Is it near your ankles? The position of the bass influences the bend of your wrist etc. This can have a bearing.

 

23 minutes ago, mr4stringz said:

A few thoughts -

 

1) Take into account the short attention span/immediate result la expectations that many have now online . That’s why there are loads of vids that will move you to playing songs at a gallop rather than a canter. If it feels to fast to do that then yes, take a step back.

 

2) What’s your playing position? Assuming you’re playing seated at present look at where your bass is positioned and where the neck is compared to players in seated positions you see elsewhere. It’ll help as a guide to ensure you’re nice and level and not playing with the neck loads further down (or up from) the body for example, and that you’re not getting j to bad posture habits early on, which all can make quite the difference. 

 

3) How long are you playing for in a stretch? As has been suggested above, shorter sprints might be better for you than settling in for marathons.

 

4) No one set formula is going to work well for one person to the next. But listen to your body above all else. 

I've tried to position it fairly high up, to try and keep the wrist as straight as possible, with the neck at a 45 degree angle and in the same position seated and standing. My practice is largely spent seated, but I've tried to adjust the strap so that it is as close as possible to the same seated and standing.

I'm trying not to spend more than 15-20 minutes at most practicing. That time is spent focussing on keeping my wrist and hand as relaxed as possible, paying attention to my thumb position and what works for me to reduce the discomfort as much as possible. I've seen a few videos saying to keep the thumb in line with the middle finger, but others saying to position it where it is sticking to the "neutral position" which might be pointing towards the headstock, allowing for a straightened wrist.

[Quatschmacher]

Check your bass is set up

properly too and you haven’t got really heavy strings on and/or really high action/high neck relief. 
 

There will be some discomfort until your fingertips build up some hard skin. 
 

I’d really recommend using double bass fingerings in the very first frets (fingers 1, 2 and 4 over a 3-fret space) as it’s a much more comfortable spacing, especially if you have a small hand span. 

[Biscuit_Bass]

12 minutes ago, Quatschmacher said:

Check your bass is set up

properly too and you haven’t got really heavy strings on and/or really high action/high neck relief. 
 

There will be some discomfort until your fingertips build up some hard skin. 
 

I’d really recommend using double bass fingerings in the very first frets (fingers 1, 2 and 4 over a 3-fret space) as it’s a much more comfortable spacing, especially if you have a small hand span. 

I'm going to be phoning up on Monday to get it booked in for a set up. The person I spoke with said to wait a week or two and let the instrument settle before I take it in, but that's going to be the next step. The action does seem a little on the high side to me, but I don't really know anything about it so it's kind of a wild guess! I think the stock strings are "medium" but I might swap them for some lights, at least for now.

[Coilte]

Try to keep both wrists as straight as possible. Use the thumb as a pivot instead of stretching. Be patient. It is better in the long run to take your time and concentrate on safe technique before you develop any bas habits. Until your hands, fingers and wrists adjust to this new task being asked of them, I would recommend playing no more than a half an hour at a time. Take regular breaks.

 

Here are some clips that should be helpful. 

 

 

[TheLowDown]

Usually when there is wrist pain it's because it's an uncomfortable angle on the fretting arm or the plucking arm, often by having the bass too low slung or the neck being almost parallel to the floor. Painful issues can arise if you're using your fingers with the wrist at a bent angle. The wrist must be as straight as possible at all times when plucking and fretting. 

Lighter gauge strings can also help with fretting, but some people don't like the less full tone.

 

My guess is that they get you playing songs quickly is because they think that's what most beginners want to do and to make it fun. Some people just want to play songs and that's all, just like with guitar.  They're not interested in self improvement except where it serves them to play songs that they know. 

 

I would get the basics such as posture, stance, where to place your thumb and fingers for plucking and fretting before you begin a song. The basics that you develop early on will help help to minimise future injures. I think it's much better to develop good habits early on rather than waste time later on undoing bad habits and dealing with carpel tunnel and tendonitis.

 

Songs are more of a fun day activity, but don't do much in the long term for increasing skill, especially if that's all the beginner wants to do IMO.

[Bigwan]

Pay attention to how hard you're fretting the string. I'd never really noticed myself until I watched a Gary Willis video on the subject. It takes a lot less pressure than you think and when you ease up on that it makes your left hand movement much more fluid. I do have to keep reminding myself though... 

[SteveXFR]

Scales may be incredibly dull but 10 minutes practicing them at the start of a session will help strengthen your joints and get you moving. If you really want to increase the boredom, try arpeggios as well.

 

[Machines]

2 hours ago, Biscuit_Bass said:

I'm going to be phoning up on Monday to get it booked in for a set up. The person I spoke with said to wait a week or two and let the instrument settle before I take it in, but that's going to be the next step. The action does seem a little on the high side to me, but I don't really know anything about it so it's kind of a wild guess! I think the stock strings are "medium" but I might swap them for some lights, at least for now.

 

I know it may seem daunting, but knowing how to do a setup yourself will save your so much hassle, time and money. It's hard to really get so wrong that it can't be put back in a couple of minutes.

 

Generally speaking - there's 2 things to adjust, the bridge saddles, and truss rod. Got any pics of the bridge saddles and neck from the side close up (around 12th fret)? We can probably point you in the right direction.

[BabyBlueSound]

Look up tendon / forearm stretching excercises. It makes a huge difference for me to properly stretch for 1-2 minutes before and after every practice session. I used to have serious recurring pain in my wrists every now and then, but no more.

[Gramski]

I find Mark at Talking Bass has some great free lessons - https://www.talkingbass.net/lessonmap/ - which go much slower and more structured than much of what is on the internet. Some of the free lessons are individual modules from the paid courses so you can get a feel for the way he presents material. It can be a little dull and academic at times but it has helped me a lot.

 

The pyschology of starting slower and building up speed is covered well here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al1Jv2ybE5I - the title is click bait but I  foundthe general process useful.

 

This (I think) is the Gary Willis video that Bigwan is referring to ... it also helped me relax my thumb and fretting hand \ arm in general ..... a real lightbulb moment when this was pointed out to me:

 

 

 

 

 

[Reggaebass]

@Biscuit_Bass if you really want to start at the beginning, I can recommend watching Richie on music college TV , his lessons are very concise and well explained and take you through step by step progressing  to the modes and scales etc, I came across him years ago while working on some modes and I ended up watching them all, just a suggestion 🙂

 

[Richard R]

Head over to Studybass.com and/or Scotts Bass Lessons. Both have excellent beginner guides including how to position and hold the bass to avoid injury.

The SBL one requires signing up to the free trial, bit is well worth it

https://scottsbasslessons.com/courses/a-bassists-guide-to-preventing-injury/introduction

 

[Downunderwonder]

13 hours ago, Reggaebass said:

@Biscuit_Bass if you really want to start at the beginning, I can recommend watching Richie on music college TV , his lessons are very concise and well explained and take you through step by step progressing  to the modes and scales etc, I came across him years ago while working on some modes and I ended up watching them all, just a suggestion 🙂

 

That plucking hand wrist position would give me hell.

 

Holding it more fore aft instead of sideways works for me.

[Richard R]

9 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

Holding it more fore aft instead of sideways works for me.

 

This ^^^. Videos make it look like the player has the neck parallel to their collar bone. If you push is out more like 45 degrees then you whole left arm moves out, the wrist doesn't have to bend and it's much more comfortable.  I only realised this a few months ago, though subconsciously I had been sticking my neck out for ages.

 

This (free) course on inproving technique is where I realised it. Lesson 1 has some good basics on posture too.

https://scottsbasslessons.com/challenge/ten-day-technique-challenge/lesson-1-nov-17th

 

Edited January 3, 2022 by Richard R
Added link.

[ubit]

The reason many tutors try to get you playing tunes quickly is because you lose attention if you are just playing scales. Try playing easy songs and concentrate on your timing. A metronome is a perfect tool for getting timing and fluidity right. The main thing is you have to enjoy what you are doing. If it's a chore you will soon lose interest. Once you enjoy what you are playing, learning becomes fun. Just remember every professional bass player was rubbish when he first started. They all practised and practised and practised. 

[Doddy]

On 01/01/2022 at 17:14, Biscuit_Bass said:

With the vast array of online tuition these days, many of them seem to be getting the complete beginner playing tunes as soon as possible (by the end of the first lesson in many cases). For me, I have found many of the basslines a bit of a stretch (literally) which has been causing me pain and discomfort because I'm focussing on playing the tune, rather than good technique and finding a comfortable way of fretting. So, should these online courses be cut into bite size chunks and more attention be paid to the VERY basics for a longer period of time?

This, to me, is the problem with online lessons. You're following a course yet you are getting no feedback on your progress, or any real help on your technique. I'm going to recommend finding a decent teacher, either online or (preferably) in person, who can help you with your technique issues and guide you at the required pace.

 

On 01/01/2022 at 21:09, SteveXFR said:

Scales may be incredibly dull but 10 minutes practicing them at the start of a session will help strengthen your joints and get you moving. If you really want to increase the boredom, try arpeggios as well.

 

If you're finding scales and arpeggios incredibly dull and boring then you're not practicing them right. 

[Dan Dare]

52 minutes ago, ubit said:

The reason many tutors try to get you playing tunes quickly is because you lose attention if you are just playing scales. Try playing easy songs and concentrate on your timing. A metronome is a perfect tool for getting timing and fluidity right. The main thing is you have to enjoy what you are doing. If it's a chore you will soon lose interest. Once you enjoy what you are playing, learning becomes fun. Just remember every professional bass player was rubbish when he first started. They all practised and practised and practised. 

 

Good advice. I find a playing to a metronome/click a bit dull, so I set up simple drum patterns on the computer to practice with. Ii makes it more interesting.

 

As far as avoiding discomfort is concerned, the aim is to find a posture that makes playing with the least physical effort possible. I would have a look at the various teaching videos, copy them to start with and then adapt what they recommend to suit your physique. We are all built differently. If, for example, you have shorter arms, you may need to have the instrument closer to vertical in order to reach the lower end of the neck. Finger length/hand size will determine whether and how you need to make position shifts with the left hand (assuming you are a righty). And so on.

 

Don't be too bound by what is stated to be "correct" technique. You refer to keeping the thumb in line with the middle finger, for example. I find that uncomfortable - it causes tension in my left hand - so have the thumb in line with or even slightly behind the first finger. Different strokes for different folks.

[BreadBin]

Some good metronome advice

 

[SteveXFR]

40 minutes ago, Doddy said:

 

If you're finding scales and arpeggios incredibly dull and boring then you're not practicing them right. 

 

What's the exciting way to practice scales?

[Richard R]

4 minutes ago, SteveXFR said:

 

What's the exciting way to practice scales?

While bungee jumping. The aim is to cover the fretboard ascending while you descend, then descending as you bound back etc. Keeping time accurately of course.

 

Or, in the absence of a bridge and bungee, play up and down with different rhythm patterns and see how funky you can get.