Why don't more Stoner/Doom/Sludge bassists play 5 strings?

[Cosmo Valdemar]

21 hours ago, Vin Venal said:

Also, if you do, please show me pictures of your best axe for massive downtuned riffage - that should go without saying.

 

But yeah, the most common tunings are probably drop D, D standard and C standard, and a 5 string has you covered, so why are all these guys and gals messing about with downtuning 4 strings?

 

Is it just the image thing? Too metal?

 

I'm considering getting one of them ibanez mezzo 32" scale 5 strings for playing heavy downtuned stinky poo, since I only play shorter scales these days, and I don't think my 30" mini-jazz can handle C standard. And don't want the faff.

 

I had one of those drop pedals for a bit, which is fun, but doesn't quite feel authentic.

 

From personal experience...

If your guitarist is playing in drop D or C and you're going to be matching the riffs, a 5 string won't have you covered. Sure it will give you access to the notes, but it will likely be stiff and unconvincing, like a session player sitting in - playing the right notes but not inhabiting the riff.

If you're playing around a riff in drop C, you need to have that big open note to bounce off - constantly playing off the first fret is really going to hold you back. When playing in this genre you often need that open root drone, and also need to the freedom to improvise around underneath the guitar solos. Not that every riff or solo will be in the same key as the tuning, but it generally is 😁

I also found that the looseness and rattle of a drop-tuned 4 string is helpful as that is exactly how the music should sound - stiffness and pinpoint accuracy is not what it's all about. There should be grease and swagger.

[Vin Venal]

So my thinking after the feedback in this thread is I'd still go 5 string, medium scale like the Ibanez.

 

I need more versatility than having an entire guitar dedicated to one genre of music.

 

And for my own stuff, I can just use B-standard so I still get that open string on-off groove thing going, and the option to move up in register rather than accross the fretboard.

 

I love Electric Wizard and I think they play in B-standard so there is precedent. Lol.

[SteveXFR]

21 minutes ago, Vin Venal said:

I love Electric Wizard and I think they play in B-standard so there is precedent. Lol.

 

They certainly do. Funeralopolis is my usual warm up when I picked up a 5 string. I think most of Om's stuff is in B standard as well, State of non return definitely is.

 

[MichaelDean]

I've tried my Dingwall for some doomy stuff and it didn't quite hit the mark for me. It was all a bit too hi-fi sounding. I think it could work well for post-rock. I have just moved the neck pickup to the middle position though and I think that might be a bit better for doom. It's a bit growlier. Also considering downtuning to ADADG, but it also depends on what the people I'm jamming with are tuned to. 

 

My Mustang dooms really well though. I love the strong fundamental you get with a short scale. I reckon the medium scale could work well. 

[Newfoundfreedom]

I mostly now play six string bass.

 

The main reason I don't play Stoner/Doom/Sludge music is a have absolutely no idea what it is. 

[SteveXFR]

20 minutes ago, Newfoundfreedom said:

I mostly now play six string bass.

 

The main reason I don't play Stoner/Doom/Sludge music is a have absolutely no idea what it is. 

 

Basically stoner metal is ripped off Black Sabbath riffs tuned down to C or lower with a heap of dirt on bass and guitars and lyrics about either weed, demons or witches/wizards. Songs usually turn in to a jam towards the end. Check out Kyuss for an example. 

For doom, tune lower and add more dirt, maybe slow down to 120bpm and add the word bong/wizard/funeral to the band name. Beards are almost essential as is black clothing. Everywhere you go there should be a fog of cannabis smoke. Check out Electric Wizard for an example. 

For sludge metal tunings can be higher, up to drop D. Basically just play early thrash slowed right down with vocals kind of slurred/growled. Check out Eyehategod for an example. 

 

Then you've got yer sub genres, funeral doom, blackened doom, drone doom, death doom etc, etc

 

[Newfoundfreedom]

12 minutes ago, SteveXFR said:

 

Basically stoner metal is ripped off Black Sabbath riffs tuned down to C or lower with a heap of dirt on bass and guitars and lyrics about either weed, demons or witches/wizards. Songs usually turn in to a jam towards the end. Check out Kyuss for an example. 

For doom, tune lower and add more dirt, maybe slow down to 120bpm and add the word bong/wizard/funeral to the band name. Beards are almost essential as is black clothing. Everywhere you go there should be a fog of cannabis smoke. Check out Electric Wizard for an example. 

For sludge metal tunings can be higher, up to drop D. Basically just play early thrash slowed right down with vocals kind of slurred/growled. Check out Eyehategod for an example. 

 

Then you've got yer sub genres, funeral doom, blackened doom, drone doom, death doom etc, etc

 

 

Sounds great. 🤨

[Vin Venal]

10 minutes ago, SteveXFR said:

 

Basically stoner metal is ripped off Black Sabbath riffs tuned down to C or lower with a heap of dirt on bass and guitars and lyrics about either weed, demons or witches/wizards. Songs usually turn in to a jam towards the end. Check out Kyuss for an example. 

For doom, tune lower and add more dirt, maybe slow down to 120bpm and add the word bong/wizard/funeral to the band name. Beards are almost essential as is black clothing. Everywhere you go there should be a fog of cannabis smoke. Check out Electric Wizard for an example. 

For sludge metal tunings can be higher, up to drop D. Basically just play early thrash slowed right down with vocals kind of slurred/growled. Check out Eyehategod for an example. 

 

Then you've got yer sub genres, funeral doom, blackened doom, drone doom, death doom etc, etc

 

Yeah, the Ibanez is ideal because it's reasonably priced, leaving money in the budget for all the denim vests, and drugs I'm going to have to buy.

[SteveXFR]

Just now, Newfoundfreedom said:

 

Sounds great. 🤨

 

Like anything it varies between bloody awful and absolutely brilliant. 

[Vin Venal]

I think Iron Monkey tune to B standard too. Iron Monkey > Eyehategod imo. 

[Newfoundfreedom]

5 minutes ago, SteveXFR said:

 

Like anything it varies between bloody awful and absolutely brilliant. 

 

To be fair, I like pretty much anything withing the rock genre. 

 

I just can't stand the constant re- naming and pigeon holing, which is more what I was poking fun at than the actual music.

 

It seems people have to come up with ever more ludicrous names and sub genres to play power chords.  

[SteveXFR]

Not a fan of negative Wizard metal then? Surely you must like a bit of nintendocore???

[Vin Venal]

10 minutes ago, Newfoundfreedom said:

 

To be fair, I like pretty much anything withing the rock genre. 

 

I just can't stand the constant re- naming and pigeon holing, which is more what I was poking fun at than the actual music.

 

It seems people have to come up with ever more ludicrous names and sub genres to play power chords.  

To be fair, if you just call it all Rock n Roll, you might accidentally turn up to see these scumbags, expecting them to sound like Meatloaf or something.

 

 

[SteveXFR]

5 minutes ago, Vin Venal said:

To be fair, if you just call it all Rock n Roll, you might accidentally turn up to see these scumbags, expecting them to sound like Meatloaf or something.

 

 

 

I'd be very happy if I heard that when I was braced for meatloaf. 

[Vin Venal]

Just now, SteveXFR said:

 

I'd be very happy if I heard that when I was braced for meatloaf. 

Me too, but it takes all sorts I spose... 😅

[Newfoundfreedom]

11 minutes ago, Vin Venal said:

To be fair, if you just call it all Rock n Roll, you might accidentally turn up to see these scumbags, expecting them to sound like Meatloaf or something.

 

 

 

Having given that a quick play, I'd rather listen to an actual meatloaf. 

[Doctor J]

4 hours ago, SteveXFR said:

For doom, tune lower and add more dirt, maybe slow down to 120bpm and add the word bong/wizard/funeral to the band name.

 

120bpm? Do you want a speeding ticket? That's disco, man. Do you doom on gallons of Red Bull? 😂

 

We've gone down to 45bpm for some stuff. Doom is double-digit bpm at the very most 😁

[mr4stringz]

Overarching reactions are -

 

1) It’s largely unnecessary

2) Also, there are no rules. If it works better for you, either by ear, technically, physically otherwise, use a fiver.

 

For me, back when I was I was doing stuff that worked around the borders and couldn’t gel with fivers, a P-bass with EB Beefy Slinky, set up and with a nut cut appropriately, felt ‘right’. A 5 string didn’t.

Edited December 29, 2021 by mr4stringz
Typo!

[SteveXFR]

41 minutes ago, Doctor J said:

120bpm? Do you want a speeding ticket? That's disco, man. Do you doom on gallons of Red Bull? 😂

 

We've gone down to 45bpm for some stuff. Doom is double-digit bpm at the very most 😁

 

Some High On Fire is up around 140bpm. Then at the other extreme, SunnO))) have been playing since 1998 and haven't yet got to their first beat.

[SumOne]

Here's a handy 'how to be doom' 

 

 

[Vin Venal]

Doom broom arrived.

 

First thoughts - flip me, it's bright!

 

Hoping the strings will settle in and take some of the edge off.

 

I'm half tempted to put a set of flats on it, but that would be leaning hard into the stoner/doom thing, if I keep the rounds, this bass will be perfect for other stuff I like playing, like post-rock, math-rock, noise-rock type stuff.

 

I got the fretwrap in case I had a lot of trouble adapting to the 5, but to be honest, I didn't need it on for my 2 hour noodle today. The neck is lovely for the price, feels very ibanezy. Probably not much chunkier than some 4 string P-basses.

 

But yeah, so bright. Had to re-EQ my amp, and turn the highs almost all the way down on the bass to get a sound that wasn't so harsh.

 

Oh also the cheap pearloid pickguard looks well naff. I took it off straight away. Will probably get a tort one. Might leave it off though, as without it it looks almost exactly like my first bass, which I think was an Ibanez SR200 from the late 90s. 😁

 

 

[Vin Venal]

Oh yeah, also, the bridge pickup is sooo noisy. That's OK though, I won't be using it for this project.

 

Eventually, the aim will probably be to convert this to passive, with some geezer butlers, or quarter pounders or similar.