Why don't more Stoner/Doom/Sludge bassists play 5 strings?

[Vin Venal]

Also, if you do, please show me pictures of your best axe for massive downtuned riffage - that should go without saying.

 

But yeah, the most common tunings are probably drop D, D standard and C standard, and a 5 string has you covered, so why are all these guys and gals messing about with downtuning 4 strings?

 

Is it just the image thing? Too metal?

 

I'm considering getting one of them ibanez mezzo 32" scale 5 strings for playing heavy downtuned stinky poo, since I only play shorter scales these days, and I don't think my 30" mini-jazz can handle C standard. And don't want the faff.

 

I had one of those drop pedals for a bit, which is fun, but doesn't quite feel authentic.

[Doctor J]

If you're not going to use the skinny, non-doom string, why have it there at all? Doom is all about the low stuff, no? 😉

 

I used a 5 string for the Withered Fist stuff (shameless plug alert: http://witheredfist.bandcamp.com ) which was tuned to dropped A IIRC, AEADG, but for the new stuff I'm now using a 35" 4 string Yamaha TRB tuned AEAD, strung with D'Addario XLs, .145, .107, .80, .60 which just feels nicer in hand than a 5 string. I can't recall using the G string of the 5er at all, if I'm honest. There's nothing wrong with using a 5, if that's what you're into, but many prefer the feel of a 4 and I am one of them. If the G string is only going to be there for show, personally, I'd rather it was somewhere else other than in my hand.

 

In a similar sense, all the guitar is 6 string tuned AEADF#B with a set of .14-.68 baritone strings, rather than a 7 string, too.

Edited December 28, 2021 by Doctor J

[Bolo]

15 minutes ago, Doctor J said:

AEADG

This is my standard tuning on both my Spector euro 5lx and my custom Cellar V. DR strings DDT heavies. However we're considered to be playing thrash metal.

[Doctor J]

Just thinking about it, one of the classic hallmarks of doom and sludge, as established by Butler and Iommi in 1970, is playing higher notes up the neck on your lower strings, rather than lower down on the thinner strings. E played on the 19th fret of your low A string sounds very different to one played on the second fret of your D string. That fatter sound is part of the game. When playing doom and sludge, I spend more time up the neck like that than I would for other heavy genres. You need fatness over twang every time.

 

I mentioned it before on one of the "lend your gear" threads, I once played a gig on a one-string bass. Just the big string, I think we were tuned down to C#, but I realised I could get all the notes I needed for that band just using the full range of the neck on one string. Before we played, the bassist from one of the other bands came in looking to borrow a bass but my downtuned one-string kriegsmaschine wasn't good enough for Johnny No-Bass, no 😂

Edited December 28, 2021 by Doctor J

[Chezz55]

I'm baffled by the thread title !!

 

Stoner/Doom/Sludge ........ What does it mean?

[Doctor J]

Genres of heavy, guitar-orientated music, notable for slower tempos and frequently tuned lower than standard.

[thodrik]

Al Cisneros has used a five string Rickenbacker at times for Om.

 

Generally stoner/sludge/doom music is often heavily influenced by 1970s rock and punk rock and there is often a preference for ‘period correct’ gear, and this period generally predated five strings. Four string Fenders and Rickenbackers dominate the scene. However as detailed above some five strings are used by a number of bassists, particularly in bands less interested in trying to look like they were emerged from a time machine from 1975.

 

I would crack on and just use whatever bass you want.

 

Edit for confusing Yob and Om after four hours sleep (or should that be ‘Sleep’…)

Edited December 28, 2021 by thodrik

[SonnyBassPlayer]

I used to play stonery/desert rock with a P bass & 50-110 Roto flats tuned in standard C because I wanted a sloppy sound to distort badly; standard tension would have never given me that tone. Kyuss heritage I think.

[Chezz55]

1 hour ago, Doctor J said:

Genres of heavy, guitar-orientated music, notable for slower tempos and frequently tuned lower than standard.

Thanks, I see it all now.  Chris

[Grimalkin]

It's an extra string to mute. 

[SteveXFR]

Al Cisneros occasionally uses a 5 string but he mostly uses low tuned fours. 

You'd never use the G string on a five so why have it there? Also, lots of open string drones and pull offs from high up the neck to open so it's really difficult to play most stuff without having the right tuning.

[Munurmunuh]

Idly imagining a five string without the G string, but just an additional D string in the same octave the two D strings could be played in unison. 

 

Edit: ooh, they could be slightly different gauges as well, so that the overtones mush up nicely

Edited December 28, 2021 by Ricky Rioli

[matski]

I used to play in one of these type of bands. The leader used to ask me to detune my 5 string bass down to ADADG.... 😬

Edited December 28, 2021 by matski

[Munurmunuh]

1 hour ago, Ricky Rioli said:

Idly imagining a five string without the G string, but just an additional D string in the same octave the two D strings could be played in unison. 

 

Edit: ooh, they could be slightly different gauges as well, so that the overtones mush up nicely

 

Just been looking at some tension tables. Taking a normal BEADG set and retuning to AEAEE adds up to a only slight reduction in tension.

 

On the two strings tuned to E2, one is pushed up a whole tone, one is dropped down a minor third. I wonder if played together in unison they would sound interesting and complex .... or just 💩 ??

 

[/DAYDREAM]

[SteveXFR]

Even if they do sound interesting and complex, would you hear it through your overdrive/fuzz and two heavily distorted guitars and a loud drummer?

The last rhythm guitarist I played with took two strings off his guitar and tuned the remaining four to A# F A# F so he could bar across all four strings to get octave power chords. He even managed to play decent solos with it. I had more strings on my bass than he had on his guitar but I only used my G string for one note in one song, I'd have been better off with a well set up, tuned down 4 string but I did like my Stingray Ray35

[SteveXFR]

I remember there was one British grunge band, Bush. They were a bunch of rich kids funded by their parents and bloody awful.

[Munurmunuh]

3 hours ago, SteveXFR said:

Even if they do sound interesting and complex, would you hear it through your overdrive/fuzz and two heavily distorted guitars and a loud drummer?

 

Probably not worth playing different notes now you mention it

[SteveXFR]

12 minutes ago, Ricky Rioli said:

 

Probably not worth playing different notes now you mention it

 

Notes you'll hear through a doom mix, interesting tonal complexities will get lost.

[Dazed]

4 hours ago, SteveXFR said:

I remember there was one British grunge band, Bush. They were a bunch of rich kids funded by their parents and bloody awful.

but huge in the US. 

[SteveXFR]

14 minutes ago, Dazed said:

but huge in the US. 

 

As we're many terrible bands.  I'll draw your attention to Trapt, Creed, Nickelback and Counting Crows.

[Dazed]

There’s really no need. History is full of terrible but successful bands. And opinions. 

[SteveXFR]

4 hours ago, SteveXFR said:

I remember there was one British grunge band, Bush. They were a bunch of rich kids funded by their parents and bloody awful.

 

I got a bit confused here. This should have gone I the grunge discussion, not here.

[Vin Venal]

4 hours ago, SteveXFR said:

 

I got a bit confused here. This should have gone I the grunge discussion, not here.

 

Yeah, I mean I agree that Bush suck, but they definitely aren't stoner rock adjacent. I don't think they ever even tuned down. They were just commercialised grunge-pop, like nickleback.

[Vin Venal]

16 hours ago, Chezz55 said:

I'm baffled by the thread title !!

 

Stoner/Doom/Sludge ........ What does it mean?

 

Realistically, you can know everything you need to know about stoner rock by listening to Master of Reality. I think its all pretty much just 90s punk kids (like me) reconnecting with 1971 via their old school metal uncles record collection. 😁

[Vin Venal]

18 hours ago, Doctor J said:

Just thinking about it, one of the classic hallmarks of doom and sludge, as established by Butler and Iommi in 1970, is playing higher notes up the neck on your lower strings, rather than lower down on the thinner strings. E played on the 19th fret of your low A string sounds very different to one played on the second fret of your D string. That fatter sound is part of the game. When playing doom and sludge, I spend more time up the neck like that than I would for other heavy genres. You need fatness over twang every time.

 

I mentioned it before on one of the "lend your gear" threads, I once played a gig on a one-string bass. Just the big string, I think we were tuned down to C#, but I realised I could get all the notes I needed for that band just using the full range of the neck on one string. Before we played, the bassist from one of the other bands came in looking to borrow a bass but my downtuned one-string kriegsmaschine wasn't good enough for Johnny No-Bass, no 😂

 

Yeah, you're right, I hadn't really thought about it, but moving up rather than accross is definitely part of the vibe.