Going To The Garden To Eat Worms

[Rich]

TBH I thought it was pretty obvious that I didn't really mean exactly a tenner and that it was a figure of speech to denote 'an amount of cash', rather than an actual maths failure. I will rephrase my original statement. 

"Going out as a 4 is fine if you can't make it, but to leave you out simply to get an indeterminate sum of money more each? All it says is that you personally are less important to them than an extra indeterminate sum of money, and that is outrageous."

I hope that clarifies things.

[Downunderwonder]

1 hour ago, Rich said:

TBH I thought it was pretty obvious that I didn't really mean exactly a tenner and that it was a figure of speech to denote 'an amount of cash', rather than an actual maths failure. I will rephrase my original statement. 

"Going out as a 4 is fine if you can't make it, but to leave you out simply to get an indeterminate sum of money more each? All it says is that you personally are less important to them than an extra indeterminate sum of money, and that is outrageous."

I hope that clarifies things.

Not really. Outrage is a strong word. Why not back it up with some real numbers to clarify where you might start  to get miffed?

[chris_b]

7 hours ago, Vinny said:

That would be bad form, I assume. . . .

 

Who knows what the audience hears, but if they want to tell me they like it, I'll be smiling sweetly and saying, "Thank you, very much".

[Rich]

17 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

Why not back it up with some real numbers to clarify where you might start  to get miffed?

Because life is too short for nitpicky minutiae, and I’ve got a gig to prepare for. 

[Al Krow]

On 03/12/2021 at 15:26, stewblack said:

It's not that I think they won't notice any difference, it's the thought that they're prepared to waste all that time and money rehearsing with me in the first place if I'm that unimportant

 

Any feedback from the gig - how did it go with a guitarist covering on bass?

Part of me thinks it wasn't a bad thing that they did: rather than have to cancel the gig, they got someone in last minute who was familiar with the set. I can understand that. I don't think that's saying you're unimportant?

And surely a bigger "threat" would have been if they had brought in another bass player who turned out to be (in keeping with the thread's garden theme!) the bee's knees?

 

PS hope you make a full and swift recovery from C-19.

Edited December 7, 2021 by Al Krow

[stewblack]

2 hours ago, Al Krow said:

 

Any feedback from the gig - how did it go with a guitarist covering on bass?

Part of me thinks it wasn't a bad thing that they did: rather than have to cancel the gig, they got someone in last minute who was familiar with the set. I can understand that. I don't think that's saying you're unimportant?

And surely a bigger "threat" would have been if they had brought in another bass player who turned out to be (in keeping with the thread's garden theme!) the bee's knees?

 

PS hope you make a full and swift recovery from C-19.

My point was they have zero appreciation of how important the bass player is in the context of the band.

This means zero respect for the work I put in.

How the gig went is neither here nor there because the audience doesn't give a s4it either.

They wouldn't dep any if the other 3. 

It's not just a standard covers band, you can't learn what I do in a couple of days.

[Woodinblack]

At the end of my last gig, the weekend before last, a guy wandered up and said that my bass lines were great and really lifted the songs away from a standard rock / pop song, and the bass tone was really good. OK, to be fair, he is one of the guitarists that is joining the band after the current one leaves (that was his last gig), but he didn't have to say that, he is in anyway!

 

[Al Krow]

45 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

At the end of my last gig, the weekend before last, a guy wandered up and said that my bass lines were great and really lifted the songs away from a standard rock / pop song, and the bass tone was really good. OK, to be fair, he is one of the guitarists that is joining the band after the current one leaves (that was his last gig), but he didn't have to say that, he is in anyway!

 

Great stuff - and I'm sure deservedly so!

 

I think most audiences rarely notice nuances of bass tone that we BC'ers endlessly angst over, but they have no difficulty in recognising a great sounding band and tight rhythm section when they hear one. 

[Lozz196]

In my last band, which was a 3 piece, people were always saying how tight we were. I took that as a great compliment, even when people said “your drummers so tight” cos if I’d been rotten on timing those comments wouldn’t have come. People might not recognise the bass on its own but if it’s not doing the job people will notice - and luckily think it’s the guitarist who’s pony.

[Alien]

On 03/12/2021 at 12:38, Jus Lukin said:

The pleasure to be taken is knowing that you have created an environment in which people's enjoyment of the music can happen... If your first concern is for your band to sound awesome, keep at it, and recognise that the singer and guitarist would get less adulation if you weren't providing the foundation for them to shine on top of.

Speak softly, and carry a big stick.

 

Never were truer words written by any bass player.

 

Kudos to you, good sir.

 

[Alien]

On 03/12/2021 at 17:25, Stub Mandrel said:

I got kicked out of an originals band for not playing boring basslines.

If the bass player's not got the creative freedom to play his own lines, then it's not really an originals band, is it?

 

A

[Alien]

My last full-time band (well, strictly part-time, as we all had day jobs) was a 3-piece where I was the singing bass player.  The guitarist took lead vocals on a handful of numbers, but other than that, I could live the Geddy/Sting/Lemmy dream.  Loved it - I got to be the centre of attention (I've always been a bit of a show-off) while still remaining in the classic 'supporting' bass player role, keeping everything together, controlling the dynamics etc. (and occasionally pulling the rug out from under anyone who got too big for their boots 😈)

Can't wait until the day I can get back to it!

 

A

 

[Al Krow]

59 minutes ago, Alien said:

My last full-time band (well, strictly part-time, as we all had day jobs) was a 3-piece where I was the singing bass player.  The guitarist took lead vocals on a handful of numbers, but other than that, I could live the Geddy/Sting/Lemmy dream.  Loved it - I got to be the centre of attention (I've always been a bit of a show-off) while still remaining in the classic 'supporting' bass player role, keeping everything together, controlling the dynamics etc. (and occasionally pulling the rug out from under anyone who got too big for their boots 😈)

Can't wait until the day I can get back to it!

 

A

 

 

Always super impressed by any bass player who can double up on vocals - IME soooo much trickier running the bass and melody lines, than strumming chords and singing! Those chaps Geddy/Sting/Lemmy and not forgetting McCartney/Lynott/Quatro are all awesome.

[Nail Soup]

4 hours ago, Alien said:

If the bass player's not got the creative freedom to play his own lines, then it's not really an originals band, is it?

 

A

Not really sure that is how originals band is defined…. Just means no-one did those songs before, not that each member developed their own parts.

For example The Undertones were an originals band, but the singer sang the melody and words written by the songwriter - mainly the guitarist, sometimes one of the others, never the singer. 
Even if the rest of the band write the bass lines note for note it’s still an originals band.

Agree it’s not a good situation though.

[Doddy]

17 hours ago, stewblack said:

My point was they have zero appreciation of how important the bass player is in the context of the band.

This means zero respect for the work I put in.

How the gig went is neither here nor there because the audience doesn't give a s4it either.

They wouldn't dep any if the other 3. 

It's not just a standard covers band, you can't learn what I do in a couple of days.

Is it really a lack of respect though? In my experience, most band members can be subbed out, and there are plenty of other musicians who can cover at short notice and do a superb job. If you aren't happy with the person they choose, you should sort out your own dep who you know can cut it.

Without sounding harsh, what is it that you do in your covers band that means it couldn't be learned in a couple of days? 

[Stub Mandrel]

13 hours ago, Alien said:

If the bass player's not got the creative freedom to play his own lines, then it's not really an originals band, is it?

 

A

 

The band wanted to play music in a particular style, I could easily have made up lines that fitted what they wanted, but I didn't want to be Dee Dee.

[Stub Mandrel]

8 hours ago, Nail Soup said:

Not really sure that is how originals band is defined…. Just means no-one did those songs before, not that each member developed their own parts.

For example The Undertones were an originals band, but the singer sang the melody and words written by the songwriter - mainly the guitarist, sometimes one of the others, never the singer. 
Even if the rest of the band write the bass lines note for note it’s still an originals band.

Agree it’s not a good situation though.

 

There was also the situation in the next band I joined. All the songs already had basslines written, which I had to learn. A situation faced by most bassists joining an established band. I had freedom to add more and to write basslines for new songsas we went along.

[Crusoe]

There was a Manic Street Preachers concert on TV the other night and every time James played a solo the whole sound just seemed empty. Nicky's bass seemed to be turned way down for some reason. Even when James was playing the melody there just seemed to be something missing.

[stewblack]

1 hour ago, Doddy said:

Is it really a lack of respect though? In my experience, most band members can be subbed out, and there are plenty of other musicians who can cover at short notice and do a superb job. If you aren't happy with the person they choose, you should sort out your own dep who you know can cut it.

Without sounding harsh, what is it that you do in your covers band that means it couldn't be learned in a couple of days? 

It's the arrangements we've painstakingly worked out over a long time, the subtle interactions between bass and drums and bass and keys, the dynamic shifts and the unusual covers we've chosen.

I've nothing against depping, I'm regularly depped in my other bands and I dep in plenty of other bands. 

But these people insist on paid rehearsal, spending hours going over songs, and yet the bass can be replaced by someone who isn't even a bassist and at a couple of days notice.

If you don't see that as them not recognising and respecting the work I've put in then we differ.

Of course as I have said, they are right and I am wrong, because the audience doesn't care either 

[Doddy]

21 minutes ago, stewblack said:

But these people insist on paid rehearsal, spending hours going over songs, and yet the bass can be replaced by someone who isn't even a bassist and at a couple of days notice.

If you don't see that as them not recognising and respecting the work I've put in then we differ.

Of course as I have said, they are right and I am wrong, because the audience doesn't care either 

Could you not have arranged your own dep for the gig? Someone who you could show the basslines/write charts for/whatever, who you know can cut the gig? 

Who says they don't recognise and respect what you do? You're in the band and work on the arrangements, so there must be some respect there. 

Playing complete devil's advocate, it could be viewed as disrespectful to expect the other band members to either sort out the dep or cancel.

 

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, stewblack said:

It's the arrangements we've painstakingly worked out over a long time, the subtle interactions between bass and drums and bass and keys, the dynamic shifts and the unusual covers we've chosen.

I've nothing against depping, I'm regularly depped in my other bands and I dep in plenty of other bands. 

But these people insist on paid rehearsal, spending hours going over songs, and yet the bass can be replaced by someone who isn't even a bassist and at a couple of days notice.

If you don't see that as them not recognising and respecting the work I've put in then we differ.

Of course as I have said, they are right and I am wrong, because the audience doesn't care either 

 

A little taken aback by your reference to your bandmates of 2 years as "these people" - not sure you meant that to come across as harsh as it sounds? My bandmates, current line up has been together 5 years now, are exactly what it says on the tin i.e. "mates" I'm in a band with. All of whom happen to be more talented musicians than me. We've been through ups and downs and had our squabbles for sure, but, at end of the day, I treasure the journey that I've been on with them.

[chris_b]

16 hours ago, Alien said:

If the bass player's not got the creative freedom to play his own lines, then it's not really an originals band, is it?

An originals band performs songs the band has written. When those songs and parts were written and who by isn't relevant. If a band member leaves the songs aren't re-written when the new guy joins.

[Stub Mandrel]

Just make Stew feel really  bad, today Paul the guitarist said my playing on Weather With You made the song 😎

[Downunderwonder]

8 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

Just make Stew feel really  bad, today Paul the guitarist said my playing on Weather With You made the song 😎

That is one nifty bassline. I hope that's what you were playing!

[Stub Mandrel]

9 minutes ago, Downunderwonder said:

That is one nifty bassline. I hope that's what you were playing!

 

My own 'interpretation ' 😃