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Band frictions


GreeneKing

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7 minutes ago, Count Bassie said:

I pulled the head and saved the sleeve section of the enclosure, put the head back in, cut the grille to fit and put the logo back on it. It's a pretty cool gag now, sounds fine.

I loaned it to a guy, I have to get it back at some point.

 

So we've moved from sockets round the back to giving it head?

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15 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

On the other point, it depends what you mean by a few bars. if you mean like, one or two, that is bad, but if you mean 4/8/12 because the guitar is going on a bit, sometimes that happens, and you can tell that there is no way the guitarist is going to resolve the solo in the bar, so they are going to have to be given a bit more space. But that much should be obvious and normally best avoided

Sounds to me like the guitar was cutting things short, which is hard to deal with, because if they do _that_, there's a good chance they also don't know what's coming next - you could have been thrown into the bridge when it should have been a chorus.

 

Prolonging things is easier, because you just have to keep playing the same bit, with the added spice of predicting when the thing is going to end. 🙂

 

And like you said, if the extra bits fit into the structure (4/8/12 bars), it can be sold as "our version" of the song. One or two bars more or less is disruptive.

 

In the end, your gut will tell you what to do. Our drummer was in a foul mood for practice this week, and I kind of got the sharp end of that. But he's usually a great guy, and a great musician, so feck it. When he's unhappy with my playing, he usually has a point. 😉

 

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15 hours ago, Count Bassie said:

Yes. "Jazz" isn't shorthand for "Chaos". You're playing over/around a melody that's contained within a form. It is (in it's more 'classic' form anyway) orderly at it's core.

In other words, you're going to need to be able to count...

The best musicians play jazz. When people use jazz as an excuse for not knowing how to count, that's ridiculous. They're just doubling down on their own ignorance.

I mean listen to Miles Davis and tell me he doesn't know exactly when and where he's playing every single note. Some tosser cutting the verse short has no business putting himself on the same continent as that.

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10 minutes ago, mlauritsen said:

I mean listen to Miles Davis and tell me he doesn't know exactly when and where he's playing every single note. Some tosser cutting the verse short has no business putting himself on the same continent as that.

I think if any of these people tried that excuse in front of Miles Davis back in his day they'd have had a trumpet inserted swiftly and painfully.

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1 hour ago, mlauritsen said:

The best musicians play jazz.

Whike I don't  doubt that jazzists are every bit as good as the next man or woman, I cant help feeling that statement is a little inaccurate. I'm sure plenty good enough to qualify as being up there with the best also indulge in ither types of music.

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1 hour ago, mlauritsen said:

The best musicians play jazz. When people use jazz as an excuse for not knowing how to count, that's ridiculous. They're just doubling down on their own ignorance.

I mean listen to Miles Davis and tell me he doesn't know exactly when and where he's playing every single note. Some tosser cutting the verse short has no business putting himself on the same continent as that.

It's a musical 'in joke'. Like drummers being thick. I doubt all vicars burp after eating a cucumber sandwich.

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1 hour ago, Norris said:

No. They really don't have to be. There are a lot of egotistical knobs out there, but there are also nice people too. You just have to find them 

 

I was going to say similar.  The Inevitable Teaspoons are 5 lovely, humble, even tempered chaps (well, 4 and me ;)) and it's a pretty harmonious scene.  The biggest "argument" we've had recently is about capitalisation of track names on the cover of our soon to be released album.  Of course there's a downside to all this peace, love and harmony - things don't move very fast because everything happens by concensus and there's a lot of niceness inertia.  That's the only problem with it - sometimes you need a bit of ego to get stuff done.  We are TERRIBLE at self promotion because of all being doubtful of our own merits - we know we're good at what we do, we're just terrible at saying it out loud for fear of seeming gauche.

 

As for Nine Lives, the covers band, it's a pretty relaxed scene - the guitarist is good at getting gigs so must have the front to tell people how good we (think we) are, but he's a good guy who I think needs to turn up sometimes (!).  We all have veto rights on song choices but rarely use them, everyone mucks in for loading in/setting up/loading out, we have a laugh, drink only water during the gig (rock and roll! but also, driving - lot of rural gigs) so no people being too pished to perform.  I really have landed on my feet.

 

If I can manage this in the semi-rural rugged outpost of civilisation that is the NE of Scotland, then I'm sure you can find some good people too, Peter.  You've just been unlucky.

Edited by neepheid
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17 minutes ago, neepheid said:

 

I was going to say similar.  The Inevitable Teaspoons are 5 lovely, humble, even tempered chaps (well, 4 and me ;)) and it's a pretty harmonious scene.  The biggest "argument" we've had recently is about capitalisation of track names on the cover of our soon to be released album.  Of course there's a downside to all this peace, love and harmony - things don't move very fast because everything happens by concensus and there's a lot of niceness inertia.  That's the only problem with it - sometimes you need a bit of ego to get stuff done.  We are TERRIBLE at self promotion because of all being doubtful of our own merits - we know we're good at what we do, we're just terrible at saying it out loud for fear of seeming gauche.

 

As for Nine Lives, the covers band, it's a pretty relaxed scene - the guitarist is good at getting gigs so must have the front to tell people how good we (think we) are, but he's a good guy who I think needs to turn up sometimes (!).  We all have veto rights on song choices but rarely use them, everyone mucks in for loading in/setting up/loading out, we have a laugh, drink only water during the gig (rock and roll! but also, driving - lot of rural gigs) so no people being too pished to perform.  I really have landed on my feet.

 

If I can manage this in the semi-rural rugged outpost of civilisation that is the NE of Scotland, then I'm sure you can find some good people too, Peter.  You've just been unlucky.

Thank you Matt. 

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As mentioned earlier by @Ricky 4000, if the guitar is too loud, I’d be tempted to turn my volume down. I’ve got one of those sound level apps on my phone and last time our guitarist was getting too loud, I started getting progressively quieter until he finally noticed and asked me to turn up. When I pointed out that the volume in the room was still over 120dB with basically just him and the drummer playing and maybe we should look at dropping levels rather than adding more, he finally got the point and wound it back.

 

If you’re lost in the mix, try changing your EQ a bit rather than adding volume? Boost the mids and cut back the lows and see if that helps.


And if the guitar cuts a solo short, make sure you do the full “glare across and slow head shake” look so it’s clear to anyone watching that it was him that just screwed up.

 

 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Skinnyman said:

As mentioned earlier by @Ricky 4000, if the guitar is too loud, I’d be tempted to turn my volume down. I’ve got one of those sound level apps on my phone and last time our guitarist was getting too loud, I started getting progressively quieter until he finally noticed and asked me to turn up. When I pointed out that the volume in the room was still over 120dB with basically just him and the drummer playing and maybe we should look at dropping levels rather than adding more, he finally got the point and wound it back.

 

If you’re lost in the mix, try changing your EQ a bit rather than adding volume? Boost the mids and cut back the lows and see if that helps.


And if the guitar cuts a solo short, make sure you do the full “glare across and slow head shake” look so it’s clear to anyone watching that it was him that just screwed up.

 

 

 

 

My bass cuts through into the mix really well despite the lead being too loud. I really think that if I turned my bass down he wouldn’t notice, so ‘lost in the sauce’ is he. Even with only one 8ohm cab my GK Legend 800 is operating with the volume down around 2 of 10. 
 

When he expresses delight at how good a song went he has no idea that I spent a couple of bars not playing due to him spontaneously modifying the song structure. 
 

I think that the root of the problem is him focussing on just lead with the volume meaning it overwrites the band. 

Edited by GreeneKing
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16 hours ago, skankdelvar said:

Never held with non-band members coming to rehearsals. One band, the drummer's wife always came along. 

 

I was in one band for a while where the keyboard player's ladyfriend came along to every rehearsal. Never said a thing, just sat there nursing a drink. After a few weeks I mentioned to him the fact that she didn't say much. "Oh yeah," he said, "she's Dutch, her English is non existent." Turned out he had, errm, obtained her services one night in Amsterdam and got on quite well, so she came home with him.

Yes, he was a bit weird. :lol: 

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19 minutes ago, GreeneKing said:

My bass cuts through into the mix really well despite the lead being too loud. I really think that if I turned my bass down he wouldn’t notice, so ‘lost in the sauce’ is he. Even with only one 8ohm cab my GK Legend 800 is operating with the volume down around 2 of 10. 
 

When he expresses delight at how good a song went he has no idea that I spent a couple of bars not playing due to him spontaneously modifying the song structure. 
 

I think that the root of the problem is him focussing on just lead with the volume meaning it overwrites the band. 



I think it's more that he's not listening to the band at all. If he was listening to the music, he most likely wouldn't be missing bars as it would be obvious where he is within the framework of the song. If anything, don't go louder to hear yourself, go quieter until he realises he needs to come down to meet the volume of the rest of the band. He needs to learn to listen to other instruments. What is the rhythm guitarist doing when he drops bars? He's in the same boat as you.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Doctor J said:



I think it's more that he's not listening to the band at all. If he was listening to the music, he most likely wouldn't be missing bars as it would be obvious where he is within the framework of the song. If anything, don't go louder to hear yourself, go quieter until he realises he needs to come down to meet the volume of the rest of the band. He needs to learn to listen to other instruments. What is the rhythm guitarist doing when he drops bars? He's in the same boat as you.

 

 

The Rhythm guitarist is low key and can hardly be heard a lot of the time. He's the sort of guy that likes to turn up and take part and doesn't want to 'rock the boat'. He has mentioned that he finds it annoying but as the bassist I seem to be more focussed on song structure than everyone else. There's a bit of 'does it really matter' attitude going on. When I'm having to sort out what I'm playing and where we are mid bar then yes, to me it matters. It sounds bad and I'm the one that stands out as getting it wrong to anyone listening.

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