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Band frictions


GreeneKing

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24 minutes ago, peteb said:

 

I wasn't in the room so I don't know exactly what happened. But then again, I've been in rehearsal rooms where far worse than that has happened and everyone managed to stay friends afterwards. 

 

Peter has said that he generally gets on with the guitar player apart from this issue, so just sort out this issue. 

 

I can't speak for Pete, and no I wasn't there either. Maybe you're a bit easier-going than me, or a bit more patient. I dunno.
I'm lucky, I haven't been in rehearsal rooms where that or worse happened, but I'd only be in there once. Like I said, life's too short.

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2 hours ago, peteb said:

There is no point in running away from a band every time you have a minor issue, or you will never get anywhere. Better to sort out a way of dealing with those issues. 

 

Not being able to count, and being easily set off aren't minor issues when playing with others. Not to take it over the top, but it sounds teetering on somewhat pathological. Maybe the guy needs a therapist... No smear intended.

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Pete is a laid back individual and quite even tempered, ( being an ex copper ) , so i could see this going either way. 

 

But for me, i'm too long in the gnashers to be putting up with what looks likes like a petulant child covering up for his own inadequacies.  If he wants to  pizz around changing bar lengths on the fly and whatnot, he needs to be in a different band

 

 

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A band I was in had a drummer who from time to time would go off on a tantrum. Once during a disagreement he sat at his kit, sticks in hand, and folded his arms in protest, eyes straight ahead. Like a six year-old at the dinner table. 

His girlfriend was in the band- she looked at him through dim slits for eyes and seethed, she had seen a lot of this, we were all getting sick of it... Of course we knew he was sleeping on the couch that night, lol.

We got through a lot of little scenes in that band, but we also had a ton of fun.  We functioned and it was rewarding. You deal if you can deal.

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I've only seen a band member "explode" three times, and they were all singers. They were all tw*ts so we just ignored them and carried on. I'm in a band with a guitarist who is too loud, and while he'll turn down if he's told, the constant reminding is becoming tiresome. All part of the joys of being in a band. IMO you stick with it for as long as the good bits outweigh the bad bits.

Edited by chris_b
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I had a minor falling out with one of our guitarists lately. He's religious - as am I as it happens - but he is quite rabid about his particular team and I'd inadvertently offended him with something id said.

 

I was just about to tell him to ferk off when I realised that all things considered it was a pretty minor deal and we play well together, so just bit my tongue and apologised. He was polite enough about it, and reading stories like the OPs makes me realise that I actually have it pretty good, so probably best to just to roll with it.  I'll just make sure im wearing my Hebrew IDF veterans T shirt next gig to get my own back and he wont even realise.

Edited by Bassfinger
Not got me binos on
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53 minutes ago, chris_b said:

I've only seen a band member "explode" three times, and they were all singers. They were all tw*ts so we just ignored them and carried on. I'm in a band with a guitarist who is too loud, and while he'll turn down if he's told, the constant reminding is becoming tiresome. All part of the joys of being in a band. IMO you stick with it for as long as the good bits outweigh the bad bits.

@chris_b you're the guy on keytar here, right? https://youtu.be/O3cBp_Bf43M

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Just to be specific. The issues are usually around the lead ending a section of the song a phrase or two early and going onto the chorus/fill/verse/outro too soon. The drummer just accommodates as I guess drummers often can without anyone noticing. Rhythm is drowned out anyway (except when playing a solo) but does recognise the issue. At the end of the song the lead usually says 'that was great/tight/sounded good' etc. with no idea that I was out of the mix for a bar or two (again) trying to sort it out.

 

It ruins my enjoyment of playing well. I think that in a gigging scenario it's me who'll look to be getting it wrong to the punters. I get criticised for being too loud at times and that is down to me wanting to be heard in the mix. I did spend one session behind the lead's amp and I had to move right up to the kit to hear it! I also ended up with a headache and nausea. The last session I went the other side of the kit to be with the Rhythm and he moved to alongside the lead leaving me to myself. It was bliss. I could hear the drums. I got told off for being too loud (the drummers wife who comes along) but I feel that I'm forced to compete with the lead who been asked time and time again to turn it down. Last session I was told I was turning the bass up and I honestly didn't touch it. 

 

We had a recording and it was supposed to show that the vocals were muffled and overpowered. The trouble was that the recorder (a phone I believe) was placed behind the PA that was facing the band and it was getting the full blast of the backline. I pointed this out and was ignored :( The bass sounded just right to my ears btw.

 

 

 

 

Edited by GreeneKing
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1 minute ago, GreeneKing said:

Just to be specific. The issues are usually around the lead ending a section of the song a phrase or two early and going onto the chorus/fill/verse/outro too soon. The drummer just accommodates as I guess drummers often can without anyone noticing. Rhythm is drowned out anyway (except when playing a solo) but does recognise the issue. At the end of the song the lead usually says 'that was great/tight/sounded good' etc. with no idea that I was out of the mix for a bar or two (again) trying to sort it out.

 

It ruins my enjoyment of playing well. I think that in a gigging scenario it's me who'll look to be getting it wrong to the punters. I get criticised for being too loud at times and that is down to me wanting to be heard in the mix. I did spend one session behind the lead's amp and I had to move right up to the kit to hear it! I also ended up with a headache and nausea. The last session I went the other side of the kit to be with the Rhythm and he moved to alongside the lead leaving me to myself. It was bliss. I could hear the drums. I got told off for being too loud (the drummers wife who comes along) but I feel that I'm forced to compete with the lead who been asked time and time again to turn it down. Last session I was told I was turning the bass up and I honestly didn't touch it. 

 

We had a recording and it was supposed to show that the vocals were muffled and overpowered. The trouble was that the recorder (a phone I believe) was placed behind the PA that was facing the band and it was getting the full blast of the backline. I pointed this out and was ignored :(

 

 

 

 

TBH, it sounds like a bit of a toxic situation and you come over as feeling marginalised.  I'd take this as writing on the wall but you're there and I'm not so only you can make that judgement.  As others have said, do the gig, appraise the situation then and if it's no better walk away in as pleasant a way as possible.

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On the other point, it depends what you mean by a few bars. if you mean like, one or two, that is bad, but if you mean 4/8/12 because the guitar is going on a bit, sometimes that happens, and you can tell that there is no way the guitarist is going to resolve the solo in the bar, so they are going to have to be given a bit more space. But that much should be obvious and normally best avoided

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9 minutes ago, GreeneKing said:

Just to be specific. The issues are usually around the lead ending a section of the song a phrase or two early and going onto the chorus/fill/verse/outro too soon. The drummer just accommodates as I guess drummers often can without anyone noticing. Rhythm is drowned out anyway (except when playing a solo) but does recognise the issue. At the end of the song the lead usually says 'that was great/tight/sounded good' etc. with no idea that I was out of the mix for a bar or two (again) trying to sort it out.

 

It ruins my enjoyment of playing well. I think that in a gigging scenario it's me who'll look to be getting it wrong to the punters. I get criticised for being too loud at times and that is down to me wanting to be heard in the mix. I did spend one session behind the lead's amp and I had to move right up to the kit to hear it! I also ended up with a headache and nausea. The last session I went the other side of the kit to be with the Rhythm and he moved to alongside the lead leaving me to myself. It was bliss. I could hear the drums. I got told off for being too loud (the drummers wife who comes along) but I feel that I'm forced to compete with the lead who been asked time and time again to turn it down. Last session I was told I was turning the bass up and I honestly didn't touch it. 

 

We had a recording and it was supposed to show that the vocals were muffled and overpowered. The trouble was that the recorder (a phone I believe) was placed behind the PA that was facing the band and it was getting the full blast of the backline. I pointed this out and was ignored :( The bass sounded just right to my ears btw.

 

 

 

 

You're dealing with things here that a lot of us got done with years ago. That's not to sell you short- just some perspective. It sounds like you've grown out of needing to deal with that kind of frustration

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2 hours ago, Jakester said:

But how do you deal with someone adding the odd bar or two in the middle of a song? 

 

I've played lots of jazz over the years and it's absolutely improvised, but improvised within the structure of the song eg. solos will be one, two, three etc times through the solo section. I've played in bands where the BL wanted to vamp a couple of bars - fine, but it was a part of the tunes that a vamp would work. 

 

 

Yes. "Jazz" isn't shorthand for "Chaos". You're playing over/around a melody that's contained within a form. It is (in it's more 'classic' form anyway) orderly at it's core.

In other words, you're going to need to be able to count...

Edited by Count Bassie
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34 minutes ago, GreeneKing said:

Just to be specific. The issues are usually around the lead ending a section of the song a phrase or two early and going onto the chorus/fill/verse/outro too soon. The drummer just accommodates as I guess drummers often can without anyone noticing. Rhythm is drowned out anyway (except when playing a solo) but does recognise the issue. At the end of the song the lead usually says 'that was great/tight/sounded good' etc. with no idea that I was out of the mix for a bar or two (again) trying to sort it out.

 

It ruins my enjoyment of playing well. I think that in a gigging scenario it's me who'll look to be getting it wrong to the punters. I get criticised for being too loud at times and that is down to me wanting to be heard in the mix. I did spend one session behind the lead's amp and I had to move right up to the kit to hear it! I also ended up with a headache and nausea. The last session I went the other side of the kit to be with the Rhythm and he moved to alongside the lead leaving me to myself. It was bliss. I could hear the drums. I got told off for being too loud (the drummers wife who comes along) but I feel that I'm forced to compete with the lead who been asked time and time again to turn it down. Last session I was told I was turning the bass up and I honestly didn't touch it. 

 

We had a recording and it was supposed to show that the vocals were muffled and overpowered. The trouble was that the recorder (a phone I believe) was placed behind the PA that was facing the band and it was getting the full blast of the backline. I pointed this out and was ignored :( The bass sounded just right to my ears btw.

 

 

 

 

 

30 minutes ago, martthebass said:

TBH, it sounds like a bit of a toxic situation and you come over as feeling marginalised.  I'd take this as writing on the wall but you're there and I'm not so only you can make that judgement.  As others have said, do the gig, appraise the situation then and if it's no better walk away in as pleasant a way as possible.

 

To be honest, that all sounds a bit chaotic. I agree with Mart to do the gig and then reappraise the situation. The trouble you have is that you haven't done a lot of gigs over the years, so you are not known to a wide pool of musicians who might want you to join their band. It is a bit of a catch 22 situation, do you stick around to get your name better known or do you leave a dysfunctional band?

 

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6 minutes ago, peteb said:

 

 

To be honest, that all sounds a bit chaotic. I agree with Mart to do the gig and then reappraise the situation. The trouble you have is that you haven't done a lot of gigs over the years, so you are not known to a wide pool of musicians who might want you to join their band. It is a bit of a catch 22 situation, do you stick around to get your name better known or do you leave a dysfunctional band?

 

Do you want your name associated with it if it's going to be a mess?

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58 minutes ago, chris_b said:

 

Jazz and Chaos??  I bought Mama Too Tight by Archie Shepp when it came out. Not sure what I was expecting but chaos is one way of describing it!!

Yeah, improvisation can blur it up good, but the old school ethic was you played over/within a form. Modality and a sense of adventure can pull at the boundaries.

When Miles and Sun Ra came along things started to break *all* the rules... And that was bound to happen of course.

Still, those guys could count and play melodies.

 

(Edited typos)

Edited by Count Bassie
Typos
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