One band, in two different parts of the room.

[bass_dinger]

Can I tap into the Basschat hive mind, for some advice on setting up a band?  

 

I am off to a rehearsal tonight - we are meeting at a village hall, bringing our own amps, and the singers will be in the audience on the night of the performance.  

 

There are two amps - my own 100 watt SWR Workingmans 12, and another smaller combo amp, for keys, vocals, and guitar.  No radio mics.  

 

Last week we played in someone's house (20 foot square billiards room).  At one stage, I could not hear one singer well so I moved myself away from the group to see if it made a difference.  (One singer was acoustically loud, and was drowning out the other singer who was plugged into the amp).  The loud singer complained that, as I had moved away, she could not now hear me well.  Odd - the placement of my amp remained the same . . . 

 

An hour ago, I got this message:

 

"Hello Robert. 

 

You will be on the stage with Richard the drummer and the trumpet player. Although no Mike the trumpet player tonight. 

This way you can set your amp behind you so you and us can hear it.

We are going to experiment by setting the piano and rhythm guitar at the other end of the hall.

Hopefully we can all then hear each other"

 

So, the band is positioned in two spaces.   On the evening, they will have a seated audience in the space between the two groups of musicians.  The audience will be enjoying a fish and chip supper .  . .

 

Ignoring the fish and chips, is this an innovative way of setting up a band, that every other band and orchestra somehow overlooked?  Or a clueless attempt at doing things differently that is doomed to fail?    

 

 

[Cato]

I imagine there will be a spot at some point in the room where the elements of the sound are in perfect balance.

 

Everywhere else however.....

Edited September 10, 2021 by Cato

[uk_lefty]

Hang on, ignore the fish and chips? Not possible. 

[bass_dinger]

1 minute ago, Cato said:

I imagine there will be a spot at some point in the room where the elements of the sound are in perfect balance.

 

Everywhere else however.....

 

Right now "in the car park, walking towards my car" looks like the optimum spot....

[Crawford13]

This sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. 

 

[Cosmo Valdemar]

I'm amazed that someone has a designated billiards room in their house.

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

Sounds like you need to invest in a PA system which includes monitors.

 

The combo that the guitar, keys and vocals are plugged into - can a second cabinet, or a second amp taking a feed from that amp  be added to that on the opposite side? At least get it off the floor and onto a stand or table so the optimum listening position isn't at knee height.

[Steve Browning]

Interesting. The message sender does know that sound isn't instantaneous don't they?

 

This is like a live slapback and you could get some timing issues. 

 

It is cacophony waiting to happen. 

[NancyJohnson]

Deciphering this, there's going to be a drummer, bass player and trumpet player in one area (A), a keyboard player and a guitarist in another area (B) and two singers wandering around an area between the two groups (C), one of which will singing acoustically, the other singing through a small amp that's also being shared with the keyboard and guitarist in area (B).  Area (C) will also be full of people at tables, eating.

 

I'm not going to sugarcoat things here, but everything you've posted indicates this has all the necessary elements for this to be an unmitigated disaster on so many levels.

 

Please report back after the event.  Let us know how the fish supper was.

 

[wateroftyne]

To complicate matters further...

 

Even if it sounds OK at the rehearsal, it's all going to change on the night of the gig itself. Fish batter is a notorious acoustic sponge - it'll soak up all the reflections, which will have its pros and cons. You might lose the slapjack / timing issues mentioned earlier, at the expense of being to hear the other half of the band.

 

Is it too late to suggest a change to pie & chips instead? That might mitigate the problem somewhat.

[NancyJohnson]

15 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

 

Is it too late to suggest a change to pie & chips instead? That might mitigate the problem somewhat.

 

 

Mmm.  Pie.

[fretmeister]

Mother of cod that’s a bad idea.

[Bigguy2017]

51 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

Mother of cod that’s a bad idea.

Got a batter one?

 

 

[fretmeister]

4 minutes ago, Bigguy2017 said:

Got a batter one?

 

 

There has to be enough space somewhere in the room so the band can all be in one plaice.

[NancyJohnson]

1 minute ago, fretmeister said:

There has to be enough space somewhere in the room so the band can all be in one plaice.

 

I'm wondering whether the OP will be using a StingRay.

[fretmeister]

2 minutes ago, NancyJohnson said:

 

I'm wondering whether the OP will be using a StingRay.

Any fin is possible.

[Downunderwonder]

I don't think I would want to go down with that ship.

[Downunderwonder]

17 hours ago, bass_dinger said:

a clueless attempt at doing things differently that is doomed to fail?    

This.

[tauzero]

If the two amps are 15m apart, there'll be a 50mS delay in the sound travelling each way. So you'll hear them 50mS late and they'll hear you 50mS late, and the result will be that you both slow down to get in time with the other one, which will never happen. It doesn't seem to serve any porpoise. Are you playing mullet rock?

[Nail Soup]

2 hours ago, fretmeister said:

Any fin is possible.

Just make sure you practice your scales

[NancyJohnson]

2 minutes ago, tauzero said:

If the two amps are 15m apart, there'll be a 50mS delay in the sound travelling each way. So you'll hear them 50mS late and they'll hear you 50mS late, and the result will be that you both slow down to get in time with the other one, which will never happen.

 

Fish gags aside, this whole set-up seems to be bothering me immensely and I can't put my finger on why.

 

Right now, we have no idea how loud the band will be playing, but given pretty much every gig I've done where we've only had a rudimentary vocal PA and we're expected to find our own balance, the drums will just swamp everything out, simply because that's what drums do.  The expectation of hearing anything from the other side of the room (keys/guitar/vocals) when you're next to a drummer is best described as 'quite low'.

 

I think 'So you'll hear them' needs to be replaced with 'in the remote possibility that you'll hear anything'.

[alyctes]

12 minutes ago, NancyJohnson said:

 

 

Right now, we have no idea how loud the band will be playing, but given pretty much every gig I've done where we've only had a rudimentary vocal PA and we're expected to find our own balance, the drums will just swamp everything out, simply because that's what drums do.  The expectation of hearing anything from the other side of the room (keys/guitar/vocals) when you're next to a drummer is best described as 'quite low'.

 

...

 

IME the drummer question can be a problem.  Electronic drumkit can solve it, IF the drummer is happy to have his volume dependent on other people...

[alyctes]

Tactically I'd suggest ensuring you can regroup at one end if it all goes pear-shaped, and making sure the organisers are on board with that.

 

[Bunion]

Whoever is organising that fish supper musical extravaganza is going to end up with curry sauce on their face… 

Edited September 11, 2021 by Bunion

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

1 hour ago, NancyJohnson said:

Fish gags aside, this whole set-up seems to be bothering me immensely and I can't put my finger on why.

 

Me too, but I can put my finger on it. The person who suggested the idea is an idiot and no-one appears to have the front/knowledge to explain why.