Am I unlucky with amps?

[SteveXFR]

I'm a bit new to all this so I don't know how reliable amps should be but so far this year I've had three amp failures.

Trace Elliot GP12SMX went up in smoke quite spectacularly with a failed power amp. Fair enough I thought, vintage electronics can be fragile so I had a new MOSFET power board fitted and thought that would be the end of it. Two hours playing and the new board failed, faulty board apparently so got that repaired under warranty. 

Last week my Orange Terror just stopped working, apparently its a catastrophic short circuit in the power supply and obviously the parts it needs are in China so that could be six weeks. 

Is it just me or are amplifiers less reliable than a badly maintained Alfa Romeo?

[Supernaut]

I've had one amp failure in my 20 years of playing.

 

Ashdown Superfly. 

 

DOA.

 

[Steve Browning]

3 minutes ago, SteveXFR said:

I'm a bit new to all this so I don't know how reliable amps should be but so far this year I've had three amp failures.

Trace Elliot GP12SMX went up in smoke quite spectacularly with a failed power amp. Fair enough I thought, vintage electronics can be fragile so I had a new MOSFET power board fitted and thought that would be the end of it. Two hours playing and the new board failed, faulty board apparently so got that repaired under warranty. 

Last week my Orange Terror just stopped working, apparently its a catastrophic short circuit in the power supply and obviously the parts it needs are in China so that could be six weeks. 

Is it just me or are amplifiers less reliable than a badly maintained Alfa Romeo?

Starting with the basics. What are you plugging into these amps? Maybe there's some incompatibility that is going on here.

 

Somewhat like Liam Neesom talking about the Taken series 'once is unfortunate but twice is a little careless'. Not saying that's the case here but you might suspect there's a reason.

[Al Krow]

Maybe I've been fortunate: zero amp failures in 7 years of pretty active use, although I've very been recently persuaded by fellow BC'ers to take a spare amp to function gigs, together with a jack to DI lead to go straight into our PA as a couple of back up options "just in case". Tbf the longest I've had any one particular gigging amp has been 4 years, before wanting to try something else.

 

Older models are generally going to be more prone than newer kit, in terms of wear and tear, and valve (power) amps seem to feature quite a lot in tales of breakdown woes. All my gigging amps have been D-class and were either been bought new or no more than a couple of years old used, which probably explains not having any breakdown issues with any of them so far, touch wood!

 

Edited September 2, 2021 by Al Krow

[casapete]

With older Trace stuff being fairly bomb proof, I’d say you’ve been unlucky. My old TE AH500 would have survived a nuclear attack. Same as the older Ashdown stuff, reliable as anything. I’ve always looked after stuff - never left in a car or damp space, serviced annually to pre-empt any possible problems and never abused onstage by being overdriven or hooked up to dodgy cabs. Maybe your Trace had a hard life before you got it?

Can’t comment on the Orange though...😉

[chris_b]

Older Trace stuff is. . . . . well, old! Age has it's own effects on electrical components.

 

The last failure I had was an all valve amp in 1999. Not so much as a sniffle with any SS and D class amps since.  

[Flat Al]

21 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

Somewhat like Liam Neesom talking about the Taken series 'once is unfortunate but twice is a little careless'. Not saying that's the case here but you might suspect there's a reason.

Isn't Liam up to "Taken 3" already?

[SteveXFR]

15 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

Starting with the basics. What are you plugging into these amps? Maybe there's some incompatibility that is going on here.

 

Somewhat like Liam Neesom talking about the Taken series 'once is unfortunate but twice is a little careless'. Not saying that's the case here but you might suspect there's a reason.

 

I have a fairly simple pedal board between my bass and the front end of the amp. 

Stingray bass > Cali76 compressor > Two Note Le Bass preamp 

 

Both times with the Trace head I didn't have the preamp, just the compressor. 

The compressor is set so volume is the same on or off, the preamp is set with a slight boost but not a lot.

Each failure has been in a different building so its not a dodgy socket.

The Trace was running at about 80%on output volume and the Orange at about 40% 

[Steve Browning]

22 minutes ago, SteveXFR said:

 

I have a fairly simple pedal board between my bass and the front end of the amp. 

Stingray bass > Cali76 compressor > Two Note Le Bass preamp 

 

Both times with the Trace head I didn't have the preamp, just the compressor. 

The compressor is set so volume is the same on or off, the preamp is set with a slight boost but not a lot.

Each failure has been in a different building so its not a dodgy socket.

The Trace was running at about 80%on output volume and the Orange at about 40% 

 

OK. What about the speaker cab? Just trying to see if anything jumps out (not trying to catch you out). It may be just rotten luck but worth making sure.

[bartelby]

I've only had 2 Ampeg PF-500 fail on me, but they were kind of expected...

 

[Russ]

15 minutes ago, bartelby said:

I've only had 2 Ampeg PF-500 fail on me, but they were kind of expected...

 

I had an SVT-7 die on me mid-gig back in 2015. 

 

I love the tone of Ampeg gear. But I'm not likely to ever own another due to their recent reliability issues. Supposedly they've addressed it more recently, but once bitten and all that. 

[bartelby]

1 minute ago, Russ said:

I had an SVT-7 die on me mid-gig back in 2015. 

 

I love the tone of Ampeg gear. But I'm not likely to ever own another due to their recent reliability issues. Supposedly they've addressed it more recently, but once bitten and all that. 

 

Yep, when I had the all valve amp itch I went with Ashdown as I'v never had an issue with their stuff.

[SteveXFR]

23 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

 

OK. What about the speaker cab? Just trying to see if anything jumps out (not trying to catch you out). It may be just rotten luck but worth making sure.

 

Pair of Trace Elliot cabs, 4x10 and 1x15. 8ohm each and each one connected to an 8ohm output in the Trace head or connected in series to the Orange.

[bartelby]

1 minute ago, SteveXFR said:

 

Pair of Trace Elliot cabs, 4x10 and 1x15. 8ohm each and each one connected to an 8ohm output in the Trace head or connected in series to the Orange.

 

Are you sure the 4x10 is still operating at 8Ohm? It was a dodgy 4x10 that killed my 2nd PF-500. 

[Munurmunuh]

It was Lady Bracknell: To lose one parent may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose both looks like carelessness.

[Russ]

22 minutes ago, bartelby said:

 

Yep, when I had the all valve amp itch I went with Ashdown as I'v never had an issue with their stuff.

I replaced the SVT-7 with an Ashdown RM-800, which was bulletproof and survived gigs, two tours and an international move without missing a beat.

I've recently replaced it with a Mesa Subway WD-800 as I like the tone a bit better (valve preamp!), but the Ashdown served me very well. 

[fretmeister]

My only problem was a Mark Bass F1 head. Was dead on delivery from the shop so it was replaced quickly.

The new one was fine.

 

Don't think I've had any other issues with a bass amp.

 

 

[ubit]

I have used my SVT 2 Pro for years without any issues at all. In fact just the other day I forgot to switch it off after mucking about for a bit. I noticed 24 hours later. Not a problem. Still works a treat.

[SteveXFR]

55 minutes ago, bartelby said:

 

Are you sure the 4x10 is still operating at 8Ohm? It was a dodgy 4x10 that killed my 2nd PF-500. 

 Yep, I put a meter across it and it was seven point something ohms.

[Happy Jack]

I don't think you've been any unluckier than most, Steve, solid state amps - whatever their class - seem to be inherently more fragile than old-school valve amps.

 

And yes, I know how weirdly that reads.

 

I've had at least a dozen vintage valve amps (I still have three of those right now) plus a modern Matamp. Not one has ever given the slightest trouble.

 

I've had perhaps the same number of modern SS amps in qualities ranging from cheap'n'cheerful Chinese jobbies to very high end stuff indeed. At least four of those have failed completely, including one which burned out in a spectacular, sparkily sort of way in the middle of a gig.

 

The failed units include an AI Clarus and a Powersoft Digam, so we're not talking about any old crap here. Both of those two incidentally were fully repaired at no cost under (expired) Warranty and without quiblle by the manufacturer.

 

As a user, I am paranoid about NOT over-loading an amp, any amp, and I always ensure that I have tons of headroom. I use no drastic FX or silly EQ settings, and my greatest extension is to use 5-string basses with a Low B.

 

Each failure can be traced back to a single component (although it always feels odd to describe a complete Motherboard as a single component 🤨) and in some cases the failed components were not cheap items with a limited operational life.

 

After many years of hands-on, in-depth research in the field, I think I can safely say that the link between all these failures is that stinky poo happens.

 

[SteveXFR]

@Happy Jack I've been thinking about changing both my amps for one all valve head. Is there an all valve unit over 300 watts I can get for under £500 used?

Edited September 2, 2021 by SteveXFR

[Happy Jack]

What on Earth would you do with a 300W valve amp? 😂

 

200W would be overkill for almost any venue, 100W is more than adequate.

 

Anything over 100W is just willy-waving, frankly. 

[bartelby]

^^ this is true! 
I’m wondering just how far I’ll get to push my CTM-300. 
Still, I don’t think I’ll ever run out of headroom!

 

once the old credit card is down to a sensible level I’ll be looking out for a CTM-30 for home use…

[Dad3353]

1 hour ago, SteveXFR said:

@Happy Jack I've been thinking about changing both my amps for one all valve head. Is there an all valve unit over 300 watts I can get for under £500 used?

 

1 hour ago, Happy Jack said:

What on Earth would you do with a 300W valve amp? 😂

 

200W would be overkill for almost any venue, 100W is more than adequate.

 

Anything over 100W is just willy-waving, frankly. 

 

I must concur with this ^^. We use a Hiwatt all-valve PA head (4 x KT88 o/p bottles...), giving a nominal 200w if aloud to. This can be useful for cracking apart ex-WWII concrete bunkers. There's no way that anyone sane can open up 200w in any environment but a stadium, fact. Hire one for a test run, then decide what you need. Don't go bassing thoughts on just numbers. 

[Lozz196]

1 hour ago, SteveXFR said:

@Happy Jack I've been thinking about changing both my amps for one all valve head. Is there an all valve unit over 300 watts I can get for under £500 used?

Might be worth checking out Ashdown ABM600 Steve. Not all valve but a very nice warm sound when the valve is engaged and designed so it can be fixed/maintained at Ashdown HQ in Essex. Very flexible eq, bags of power, and at 13kg a lot easier on the back than all-valve.