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Charlie Watts puts a dep in with the Stones


casapete

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It's worth noting that the Peart video getting everyone in a tizzy is from 94, which is the year he decided to start working with Freddie Gruber to help him get out of the rigidity he needed to play along with Rush's midi and backing tracks. He recognised the stiffness himself and spent many years afterwards getting out of it. That video doesn't really do justice to how he would play in the years after.

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Time for an anecdote..? I've posted this before, but this seems as pertinent a spot as any for a repeat. Sitting comfortably..? OK, then...

 

I moved to France in '75, and was taken on by a touring variety band, playing drums (obviously; I'm a drummer...). As the name implies, a variety band has a varied repertoire, with several sequences for, at the time, the local village fête/dance, in the village hall or a big marquee. A lot of French 'musette' (waltzes, pasodobles, javas, tangos and more...), some French 'Top 10' hits, and the necessary 'rock' segues for the young'uns. In there was a Stones sequence, with the ever-popular 'Satisfaction'. My first rehearsals with the full band were 'interesting', as I had little experience of the more typically French stuff (and some of it is not as evident as one might think...), but I thought I'd be OK with the Brit-Pop stuff. Off we go, then, rehearing 'Satisfaction'. We didn't get far before the band leader (BL...) stopped us all and asked what I was playing (in rather more 'fruity' terms than that...). 'Satisfaction..!' I replied. 'That's not what the Stones play' he barked (but in French, obviously...) 'Play what's on the disk..!' Hmm... We go on to other numbers; I decide I need to listen again to this, as I had never really studied it. It was just a tune on the radio from 'back then', to me. No interwebs, back then, so I bought the single from the record shop (you remember record shops..?) and listened to it, especially the drumming. Try it yourselves, if you want to understand the rest of the tale.
Next rehearsal, then, and time for the Rock'n'roll segue, with Satisfaction. Count in, start drumming. We didn't get far before the BL stopped us all and asked what I was playing... 'Satisfaction..!' I replied, 'as on the disk..!' Incredulous, the BL had to listen to the disk himself. Once finished, we carried on with the segue, but the BL wanted me to play my version, rather than the 'hands'n'feet' 'chunk chunk chunk' that Mr Watts plays from start to finish. It swings like a cement mixer (the 'light relief' from the 'cha cha cha' on occasion is the tambourine offered by the singer...); the drums continue relentlessly with all the subtlety of a guillotine execution. Fine, maybe, on the popular hit song of the day, but absolutely useless for inciting kids to dance rock'n'roll..! I was henceforth free to 'embellish' similar numbers, 'Jumping Jack Flash' and others, with suitable 'pêches' on the cymbals, or accented beats.
Moral of the story..? Mr Watts is, indeed a fine drummer, but a lot of the early stuff was, and is, below simplistic, and wouldn't pass muster these days, played by anyone, except for the Stones mystic. I doubt he would claim that particular song to be his finest , and would hope he'd do something quite different if it was to be done again.
OK, you may stretch your legs now, and put the kettle on. Thanks for listening. B|

Edited by Dad3353
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30 minutes ago, Lord Sausage said:

Surely that's pretty much what most of Basschat is, lots of discussions on points of views.

Getting ganged up on by the usual suspects is not what I hope Basschat is about. Please stop quoting me. I have unfollowed this thread for a reason.

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4 minutes ago, ubit said:

Getting ganged up on by the usual suspects is not what I hope Basschat is about. Please stop quoting me. I have unfollowed this thread for a reason.


There’s no ganging up - you’re just in a minority. Nowt wrong with that, but it means you’ve got to work a little harder to change people’s minds.

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1 minute ago, wateroftyne said:


There’s no ganging up - you’re just in a minority. Nowt wrong with that, but it means you’ve got to work a little harder to change people’s minds.

I was just going to say I didn't see any ganging up. Unless I'm part of the usual suspects. I hope not, I've only just come back after years away from here. Maybe that's just his point of view!

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I'm not sure why people are getting upset or so defensive about their heroes.

 

I'm sure that if Neil Peart had been asked to dep for Metallica then he would have acquitted himself very well. I'm sure that Steve Jordan has the basic chops to play the Metallica gig (not so sure about Charlie), but I doubt that he would be very convincing! They are all great drummers, but nobody is equally brilliant at everything. 

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I must admit, as a former drummer myself, I've never fully understood the Charlie Watts "mystique".

 

I have watched and read many music documentaries and biographies over the years where bands say Charlie was an option for them in the early days and they wished they'd had him as he was the best, putting him on a par with Ginger Baker and Mitch Mitchell.  I've also read Keith Richard's opinions on him and heard he (Charlie) started out playing jazz, so figured he must be good.

 

I'm not saying he's not, but whenever I've tried to play along to Stones stuff in the past (I wore out Hot Rocks when I was a kid) or watched clips of him, I didn't ever notice what everyone was talking about. I thought he was solid, (if a little stiff), but nothing special that no one else could do.

 

Whereas, Ringo on the other hand (another contentious one, I know) I've always stoutly defended as I felt he always had a good feel and have often thought there probably isn't much more or different that you would want the drummer to play on those tracks.   

 

What am I saying?  I don't agree with NP slagging Charlie off when he did, but I struggle to believe he would have not been able to suitably replicate what Charlie plays on Stones tracks.

 

However, I do agree with WoT that comparing NP in his prime playing big band to an 80 year old Charlie playing blues is not a fair comparison!

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I wouldn't call a couple of people having differing opinions on things ganging up. It not like there were any personal attacks or anything.

 

Anyway, Steve Jordan and Darryl Jones will be a hell of a good rhythm section.

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42 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:


There’s no ganging up - you’re just in a minority.

 

There is no way of telling who has the minority view.

 

I have never heard anything that CW is doing that in anyway seems better than even some of the drummers I have played with. He seems competant and ok, and obviously a lot more experienced than when he started where he was basically just in time.

I don't see how many drummers (let alone NP) couldn't do what he does at least as well.

 

I just don't care enough to argue about it in a 'my dads bigger than your dad' sort of debate like this one :D

 

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It's sad really, how a conversation about Charlie Watts needing a dep morphs in to yet another "I'm right, you're wrong" thread. There seem to be more and more of those now. 

 

Basschat is going to the dogs; and not in a good way. 
 

Cheer up Charlie. I hope you feel better soon

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3 minutes ago, Old Horse Murphy said:

It's sad really, how a conversation about Charlie Watts needing a dep morphs in to yet another "I'm right, you're wrong" thread. There seem to be more and more of those now. 

 

Basschat is going to the dogs; and not in a good way. 
 

Cheer up Charlie. I hope you feel better soon

I totally agree and if you read back to how the conversation developed you will see that my original post wasn't meant in any way to be contentious.

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2 minutes ago, Old Horse Murphy said:

It's sad really, how a conversation about Charlie Watts needing a dep morphs in to yet another "I'm right, you're wrong" thread. There seem to be more and more of those now. 

 

Basschat is going to the dogs; and not in a good way. 
 

 

People have been saying this since I joined 11 years ago. 

 

Basschat must have been a musical, intellectual, concordant, harmonious utopia back in the day!

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5 minutes ago, ubit said:

I totally agree and if you read back to how the conversation developed you will see that my original post wasn't meant in any way to be contentious.


It wasn’t, but by posting it you become part of a discussion. If you don’t want to become part of that discussion, either don’t post, or don’t click the link when you receive a notification.

Edited by wateroftyne
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16 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

I have never heard anything that CW is doing that in anyway seems better than even some of the drummers I have played with. He seems competant and ok, and obviously a lot more experienced than when he started where he was basically just in time.

I don't see how many drummers (let alone NP) couldn't do what he does at least as well.

This and it's noted that no one disagreed with you.

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