Dad3353 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 3 minutes ago, SteveXFR said: There's a lot of suggestions that Led Zeppelin were one of the originators of heavy metal but no mention of The Who. I would see The Who as having heavier music than Zeppelin especially with Bonhams drums and Entwistles bass. ? ? ? With 'pop' songs such as 'Substitute' and 'Pictures Of Lily'..? Hmm... ... and ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 6 minutes ago, Cliff Edge said: it fails to come up with a definite answer. Indeed so. I think the definitive answer is 'nobody's entirely sure' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegs07 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 (edited) 32 minutes ago, skankdelvar said: Indeed so. I think the definitive answer is 'nobody's entirely sure' Possibly because there is no definitive answer. The blues gave birth to rock and roll which spawned a lot of different styles.Throw some socio-economic upheavals in the mix add a pinch of emerging technology and you go from the Kinks to Cream and Hendrix. The innocence of the 60’s crashes out with Zeppelin a war then a big recession. The 70’s are here and things are looking grim, Sabbath then Punk and enter Motörhead and on it goes to the happy hairy 80’s days, and it’s all glam rock and on and on…. It will all evolve and new classifications added, new sub-genres invented and old ones debunked. There will most likely be a bunch of blokes debating whether Metallica are really metal in a decade. Edited July 12, 2021 by tegs07 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stub Mandrel Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 21 minutes ago, SteveXFR said: There's a lot of suggestions that Led Zeppelin were one of the originators of heavy metal but no mention of The Who. I would see The Who as having heavier music than Zeppelin especially with Bonhams drums and Entwistles bass. Their songs on the Woodstock album bear testament to that. For me, Truth by Jeff Beck is the earliest album I feel comfortable classing as heavy metal. Probably my best random album purchase ever. I don't feel Electric Flag or Iron Butterfly quite make it, for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stub Mandrel Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 14 minutes ago, tegs07 said: Possibly because there is no definitive answer. The blues gave birth to rock and roll which spawned a lot of different styles.Throw some socio-economic upheavals in the mix add a pinch of emerging technology and you go from the Kinks to Cream and Hendrix, Some Zeppelin a war and a big recession things are looking grim, Sabbath and some Punk and enter Motörhead and on it goes happy hairy 80’s days, and it’s all glam rock and on and on…. Is it fair to say that most genres start off wide-ranging and fuzzy edges and become increasingly specialised, or at least subdivided into highly specialised sub-genres? I think for my daughter trying to explain drum'n'bass, American EDM, house music, R&B, techno, trance, dubstep... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegs07 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Stub Mandrel said: Is it fair to say that most genres start off wide-ranging and fuzzy edges and become increasingly specialised, or at least subdivided into highly specialised sub-genres? I think for my daughter trying to explain drum'n'bass, American EDM, house music, R&B, techno, trance, dubstep... It’s fair to say whatever is important to you. Some really care about the genre and categories. I find the progression and cultural context interesting but am not really bothered by the terminology. Edit: I also get lost in the evolution of most genre’s and tail off towards the 90’s! Edited July 12, 2021 by tegs07 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubit Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 13 hours ago, Killed_by_Death said: mmm, good: mozzarella, parmesan, romano Unless you are a food photographer, pictures of peoples dinner always look rank! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diskwave Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 Nope. Heavy metal at the time meant one thing only....Black Sabbath...the Purples were heavy rock. So SOTW is a heavy rock tune. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunderwonder Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 What is heavy metal anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegs07 Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 35 minutes ago, greavesbass said: Nope. Heavy metal at the time meant one thing only....Black Sabbath...the Purples were heavy rock. So SOTW is a heavy rock tune. Black Sabbath just thought they were playing heavy rock as well: Black Sabbath: 'We hated being a heavy metal band' http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-38768573 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubit Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 Anyway, who gives a toss ? As long as it’s good music! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwilym Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 Definitely false metal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judo Chop Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Gwilym said: Definitely false metal. What's that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killed_by_Death Posted July 13, 2021 Author Share Posted July 13, 2021 "Are you coming to our concert this weekend?!" citizen: "What kind of Music do you play?" "It's good Music, man!" citizen: I'll pass "Are you coming to the Goth dance-party this weekend?!" Azrael Abyss: "Heck yeah!" Azrael Abyss comes to the party in full regalia, including corpse-paint & a vintage long-tail coat first song played "Love Cats" by The Cure Azrael Abyss departs so fast his neck is aching on the walk home. Azrael Abyss cares about labels! most citizens care, but some are just using them incorrectly to 'niche' something they don't like 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegs07 Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Killed_by_Death said: "Are you coming to our concert this weekend?!" citizen: "What kind of Music do you play?" "It's good Music, man!" citizen: I'll pass "Are you coming to the Goth dance-party this weekend?!" Azrael Abyss: "Heck yeah!" Azrael Abyss comes to the party in full regalia, including corpse-paint & a vintage long-tail coat first song played "Love Cats" by The Cure Azrael Abyss departs so fast his neck is aching on the walk home. Azrael Abyss cares about labels! most citizens care, but some are just using them incorrectly to 'niche' something they don't like Some people really do and putting things in neat categories has some use but it’s not a religion. I was often criticised for being a Goth but wearing a Pogues TShirt. I was never a Goth. I just wore black a lot and liked some Goth music. Still don’t see what musical similarities Bauhaus have with Fields of the Nephilim though. It’s all a bit subjective and arbitrary. Are the Cure Goth when they play Funeral Party and pop when playing Love Cats? Edited July 13, 2021 by tegs07 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4000 Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Judo Chop said: What's that? Ask Joey DeMaio. 😉 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubit Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 11 minutes ago, tegs07 said: Are the Cure Goth when they play Funeral Party and pop when playing Love Cats? The Cure are definitely not Goth. They just get the label because they look like Goths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegs07 Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, ubit said: The Cure are definitely not Goth. They just get the label because they look like Goths. Yet they were one of the first post punk bands to define the genre along with Siouxsie and the Banshees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killed_by_Death Posted July 13, 2021 Author Share Posted July 13, 2021 Smith had denied many times that The Cure are Goth, which is mostly true, but then they do a really Goth song for a Goth movie: The Crow I guess they're like Deep Purple in respect to Heavy Metal. The band denied they were Heavy Metal, even though a few of their songs were, before there was a label for it. Even Eldritch denies Sisters of Mercy are Goth however, even though the vast majority of their catalogue certainly fits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegs07 Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Killed_by_Death said: Even Eldritch denies Sisters of Mercy are Goth however, even though the vast majority of their catalogue certainly fits I think the number of cover versions of Dylan, Young and Cohen along with the band name give a pretty big hint of Eldritch’s influences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killed_by_Death Posted July 13, 2021 Author Share Posted July 13, 2021 (edited) Their early work was quite dark, & along the lines of Red Lorry Yellow Lorry, aren't they both Leeds bands? Edited July 13, 2021 by Killed_by_Death Leeds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegs07 Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 (edited) Yep they were based in Leeds. Bauhaus were Northampton. A lot of metal and goth bands evolved from the North and Midlands in the late 70’s and early 80’s. It wasn’t yet a time of coiffured hair and rampant greed. Edited July 13, 2021 by tegs07 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munurmunuh Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 Being well-educated and literate, Andrew Eldritch knew what gothic had meant for the couple of hundred years before post-punk rock, and in that context his assertion that the Sisters were not gothic makes good sense (especially as he self-identified more as a poet than as a songwriter) The easiest way to illustrate this is by comparing his lyrics for "Alice" with Wayne Hussey's for "Garden of Delight". "Garden of Delight" is full dark gothic imagery — Take my hand and lead me to the Garden of Delight blah blah revelation blah windswept blah breathless blah — whereas "Alice" is a straightforward portrayal of the kind of screwed up modern girl who lives life through that Pre-Raphaelite filter: Alice in her party dress, she thanks you kindly, so serene, she needs you like she needs her tranqs to tell her that the world is clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killed_by_Death Posted July 13, 2021 Author Share Posted July 13, 2021 Jim Morrison was also a poet, who just happened to be the frontman of an Acid Rock band. oops, another label Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHUFC BASS Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 Stop analysing music and just appreciate the art-form. It doesn't need to compartmentalised. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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