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Half forgotten UK pub rock bands from 20 years ago is like any other natural hierarchy:

99% of the wealth goes to the 1% at the top of the pyramid.

The vast majority of bands are scratching around the lower levels. Many are looking for a leg up to the next level. Some are naturally just better than others, some try much harder than others, some both / some neither...

 

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10 minutes ago, Ricky 4000 said:

Half forgotten UK pub rock bands from 20 years ago is like any other natural hierarchy:

99% of the wealth goes to the 1% at the top of the pyramid.

The vast majority of bands are scratching around the lower levels. Many are looking for a leg up to the next level. Some are naturally just better than others, some try much harder than others, some both / some neither...

 

Some get lucky, some don’t, some realise that they are not that great and quit, some are crap but hit the jackpot anyway. It’s not a fair or just career path!

Edited by tegs07
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52 minutes ago, ubit said:

Just think of the exposure you will get! Great , my rent is five exposures a month!

Not everyone who plays live is relying on gig income to pay the rent. That's just a fact of life that struggling "pro" musicians need to deal with in terms of competition for gigs and pricing. A lot of hobby musicians love playing live because doing so is its own reward. Surely that's totally cool, if that's how they want to spend their free time?

And it doesn't mean that bands willing to play for free will be crap either, although you would hope that musicians who are getting paid are bringing something extra to the party compared to those who are playing for free in terms of musicianship and professionalism, but that won't always be the case.

I know it must come as an unpleasant shock to some, but making music isn't just about the money for many musicians...did someone say we're going round in circles?

Edited by Al Krow
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36 minutes ago, MacDaddy said:

re. The Hamsters. Surprisingly well endorsed for a covers band.

Not strictly a covers band. They released a number of albums of original material too. The purely Hendrix and ZZ Top stuff came later.

Edited by Rich
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38 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

did someone say we're going round in circles? 

Doesn't hurt to repeat it.

Music is one of those things that can be a job or a hobby. People do it in the manner of their choosing. Nothing wrong with that.

Edited by Dan Dare
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1 hour ago, Doddy said:

... playing for nothing gets you a reputation as someone who will play for nothing. 

... which is exactly what we want..! Win/win..! We play the free gigs we're invited to, the others play the paid gigs we're invited to that we don't want. Great; I'm glad that's now settled, then..! B|

Edit : It's been mentioned 'What do 'pro' (paid...) bands bring to the party that we don't..?'. The answer is 'choice of repertoire'. We play the songs that we want to play. We don't play stuff just for folk to dance to, or happen to be currently popular. We've chosen the songs we want to rehearse (and hone to a high standard, in our own view...); the folk that invite us to play are happy with that, generally, or will be, if they don't already know us. We don't get boo'ed off stage for being rubbish, but we don't play requests, or 'first dance' stuff. It's Bowie, Radiohead, REM, Noir Desir, Bashung, SOAD, RATM, Floyd and more. We don't know 'Brown-Eyed Girl' or 'Sex On Fire'.

Edited by Dad3353
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16 hours ago, gjones said:

You get paid what you think you're worth.

If you don't ask for any payment, you're probably pretty awful.

I think I'm worth £10,000 per gig. But when I ask for it, for some reason I don't get it. As you're an expert, perhaps you could tell me where I'm going wrong.

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1 hour ago, MacDaddy said:

re. The Hamsters. Surprisingly well endorsed for a covers band.

History repeats. The best cover bands get the attention of the originals. Hamsters > Feelgoods, These guys > Chicago.

Bit of a long video, but you get the idea in the first minutes:

 

Edited by Ricky 4000
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3 hours ago, tegs07 said:

Amateur network engineers don’t get paid. They have to do something else to get paid until they get the experience. The same with amateur musicians and amateur carpenters and amateur actors and amateur photographers and ….

I got paid for the first gig I played as a bassist (mix of covers and originals), not for the second (different band, originals), and from the third gig on (another band, covers) it's been mainly paid. You know not of what you speak.

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6 minutes ago, tauzero said:

I got paid for the first gig I played as a bassist (mix of covers and originals), not for the second (different band, originals), and from the third gig on (another band, covers) it's been mainly paid. You know not of what you speak.

OK I am clueless as you were everyone. I would suggest you look up the dictionary definition of Amateur and Professional though before making comments that make no sense. 
If people constantly pay me to plaster their walls I am not an amateur plasterer. I may be a crap plasterer but that’s a different matter.

Edited by tegs07
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2 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

OK I am clueless as you were everyone. I would suggest you look up the dictionary definition of Amateur and Professional though before making comments that make no sense. 

Perhaps you should work out what you're trying to say as it gets less clear by the minute. You said that amateur musicians start out not getting paid. I am and was an amateur musician who started out getting paid. Have you ever played with a band in public?

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6 minutes ago, tauzero said:

Perhaps you should work out what you're trying to say as it gets less clear by the minute. You said that amateur musicians start out not getting paid. I am and was an amateur musician who started out getting paid. Have you ever played with a band in public?

Yes for free at a pub that took a punt on amateur bands hence didn’t pay. If you are getting paid repeatedly and doing it for the money well done you are a professional not an amateur. It’s not complicated.It’s also pretty rare particularly if your building up a National let alone international fan base.

PS punk band. Teenagers and crap. No one in their right mind would have paid us.

Edited by tegs07
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As an amateur I actually used to find offers of payment a bit of a burden as it meant there'd be certain expectations we'd have to live up to and if we weren't considered much cop there'd be a fair bit of aggro from dissatisfied punters. If they didn't much like us but we were playing for free the worst we'd get is being told to 'p1$$ off, you're shoite'.

Edited by Barking Spiders
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I'm surprised that there's all this fuss anyway, since the clap became a unit of currency a year or so ago. The number of rounds of applause you get should provide an excellent income, at the rate of exchange of one round of applause per 1% of a nurse's pay.

Edited by tauzero
Not the great god Om
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1 minute ago, tauzero said:

I'm surprised that there's all this fuss anyway, since the clap became a unit of currency a year or so ago. The number of rounds of applause you get should provide an excellent income, at the rate of exchange of one round of applause per 1% of a nurse's pay.

Just not having bottles of p1$$ or a few dozen mouthfuls of sputum aimed at us  I considered payment enough.

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2 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

Yes for free at a pub that took a punt on amateur bands hence didn’t pay. If you are getting paid repeatedly and doing it for the money well done you are a professional not an amateur. It’s not complicated.

I suggest that you look up the definitions of "professional",  "main", and "occupation" because you're hoist by your own petard. 

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4 minutes ago, tauzero said:

I suggest that you look up the definitions of "professional",  "main", and "occupation" because you're hoist by your own petard. 

If your doing something for money rather than fun and getting paid to do it your not an amateur. You can be part time it makes no difference.

Edited by tegs07
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7 minutes ago, Barking Spiders said:

Just not having bottles of p1$$ or a few dozen mouthfuls of sputum aimed at us  I considered payment enough.

 

many years ago, having played to what we thought was an apathetic crowd, one of the punters told us "you were great, you didn't get bottled or nuffink!". Another punter bought the band a round.

True story.

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26 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

If your doing something for money rather than fun and getting paid to do it your not an amateur. You can be part time it makes no difference.

Maybe not an amateur, but the dreaded term 'semi-professional', surely an oxymoron? 🤣

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1 hour ago, tauzero said:

I think I'm worth £10,000 per gig. But when I ask for it, for some reason I don't get it. As you're an expert, perhaps you could tell me where I'm going wrong.

If you got paid £10,000 to play the Dog & Duck, I'd definitely want to see that gig.

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38 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

If your doing something for money rather than fun and getting paid to do it your not an amateur. You can be part time it makes no difference.

So you haven't looked up the definition,  or you don't understand it. What a waste of space you are. Clue: it's when it's your main occupation and you get paid for it. Do you understand "main"?

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10 minutes ago, tauzero said:

So you haven't looked up the definition,  or you don't understand it. What a waste of space you are. Clue: it's when it's your main occupation and you get paid for it. Do you understand "main"?

Good lord your certainly not an amateur angry pants are you? 
 

I see no mention of proportion of time spent to make something a profession.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/professional?q=Professional+

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